First timer changing belt on 1973 Kenmore C110.470200

[pixelhack]

Hi everyone,

My washer is having some trouble agitating. It will give a few agitations and then start clicking. I thought it might be due to the belt because the belt is very worn indeed. In fact I have the belt on hand because I chickened out from changing it a few years ago when I thought I would have to drop the transmission to do it.

I have done a bit of maintenance on old Kenmore dryers but this is the first major work I will do on an old washer. I have found a few threads on how to change the belt and was wondering what the drawbacks of each approach would be.

If I put the washer on its front is oil going to spill out of the transmission?

Should I try to change the belt without dropping the transmission? I read about a method where you remove the support brackets and spacer but don't drop the transmission.

Is there anything else I should do any maintenance on while I am changing the belt?

Thanks

 

[114jwh]

If the belt came in the packaging, the instructions on the back are really good. If you don't have them I've included a link below that has a picture of the back of the package along with lots of other tips. There are two methods listed, I think at some point they stopped printing the alternate method, if I ever knew I can't remember why. Whenever I've done this I've just done it using the standard method - it really isn't that bad. Yes, you will likely get a few drips of oil but it shouldn't make any difference for that little bit.

I usually take a small piece of 2x4, put a hand towel over top of it and when I lower the machine down, fashion it so the front top edge lands on the 2x4. That way its easier to pick up off the ground when you're done.

However, if its agitating for a minute and then just clicking, I would take the back panel off first and run the machine while watching the transmission area to see if you can see anything else that may cause the agitation problem. Pumps on these are notorious for seizing up after several years so if its never been replaced and you've owned it for a long time check that too.

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?60411_15~1

 

[pixelhack]

Additional information

As I am cleaning up under the washer I notice a bit of pink oil on the bottom of the transmission. I can't remember if I tipped the washer on its front when I was considering changing the belt a few years ago.

The belt is very worn and there is lots of "belt stuff" and bits on the pulleys. I guess wirebrush or scotchbrite pad on the pulleys?

To get the machine to agitate I will have to fill it with water or trick the machine into thinking it is full.

Everything seems to be working except agitation. The spin works and the pump works.

 

[114jwh]

One way or another it sounds like the belt needs to be replaced but I would still try running the machine with the back off to see if you can spot something wrong.
Another thing might be to look at the wigwag. If memory serves, the agitate cam bar is on the right side. Check to make sure the electrical connection is good, the wire isn't broken and the solenoid is working when the machine goes into agitate.

The oil inside the transmission in brown so maybe the pink stuff is old detergent residue? Either way, unless there is a lot, wouldn't worry about this yet. These sometimes leak a drop or two of oil every so often.

You can make the machine agitate with no water a few different ways. Many of these, (or at least Canadian machines) use the same timer for suds and non-suds machines. Assuming yours is not a suds-saver machine, there may be a blank spot on the timer dial just before the normal cycle (or super cycle if yours has that). If you turn on this machine at that spot it will sometimes start agitating with no water. There are also sometimes some other hidden spots on the timer that will do this same thing. Otherwise, I believe you can disconnect the clear plastic water level tube from the control and blow into it with the machine on.

 

[DADoES]

 
Worn belt ... is spin performance, acceleration rate impaired? Perhaps a photo of the belt for reference on its condition? Or a video of the problem happening*?

Does the clicking occur only during agitation, not spin or neutral drain?

Clicking during agitation ... does the agitation action stop or become erratic with the clicking?  A badly-worn belt will slip and agitation speed may reduce accordingly but it wouldn't ordinarily cause a clicking noise.

A broken or weak spring in the transmission can cause the the agitation gears to slip in/out of drive-contact and a clicking kind of noise may result.

*Videos cannot be attached/uploaded into a post like a photo.  Videos must be placed at an online sharing service and linked with a URL in the post.  The board software recognizes standard YouTube URLs pasted into a post and automatically embeds the video.

 

[repairguy]

It’s time for a gearcase rebuild. The agitator gear is jumping in and out of place. Could be the spring on top of it is broken or the oil has turned to mud or both. Changing the belt will not fix this issue.

 

[maytag85]

I agree with Melvin, the transmission/gear case needs to be rebuilt. The spring the pushes the agitate gear down is either worn or broken. I rebuilt mine last year and replaced the spring along with topping it off with fresh gear oil. Rebuilding a Whirlpool/Kenmore belt drive transmission is fairly easy since there isn’t very much inside but can be a bit messy with all the oil that’s in there.

 

[pixelhack]

I am lucky that the washer still has most of the original papers with it, so I have some diagrams and parts lists. Which parts would I need to rebuild the transmission? I called a couple parts houses last week and they said they have some parts for this model but not a lot. It would be a real shame if I can't get this working again.

 

[repairguy]

You’ll have to remove the gearcase and open it up to find what needs to be replaced. If water hasn’t gotten into it chances are it just needs an oil change and agitator gear spring if it’s broken. 54-56 comes as a kit with the spring and seal. The gear fork spring should probably be replaced while you’re in there as well. It’s a good idea to replace spin tube seal part 22 and also grease and oil center post bearings and replace the top seal(s) if the bearings are still in good shape. If bearings are bad they will need replacement along with a spin tube or basket drive assembly.

 

[114jwh]

Jack, that part list you have is mostly Inglis part numbers. Kenmore machines were built by Inglis in Canada at this time, using Whirlpool designs under license. Some parts were fabricated directly by Inglis in their factory and these have the longer part numbers on your list. Those parts that were sourced from Whirlpool have the more common shorter part numbers. When Inglis was fully absorbed by Whirlpool in the 80's/90's this practice ended.

You will likely need to find the Whirlpool part numbers to have the best chance of finding these parts. Some Canadian appliance part sites may translate the part to the Whirlpool equivalent, some may not recognize them at all. I would try Amre Supply first as their database seems to often recognize both. But the good news is there are lots of posts on this site that have documented rebuilds of belt drive washers that will include part numbers for the parts that were used. Kenmore, Whirlpool and Inglis washers are all the same mechanically.

As Glenn suggested, Id still recommend posting a video showing the machine operating with the back panel off while its supposed to be agitating

 

[pixelhack]

I ran a few tests and here is what happened. The agitator seems to work fine when there are no clothes in the washer. Slowly adding clothes it took about a full loads worth before it stopped agitating. When it stopped agitating, clicking begins and you can see the top of the gear fork assembly (51) hopping up and down.



The belt is probably slipping as it is only 5mm wide now compared to 8mm width of a new belt. But at no time did I see any pulley stall.

If I can use this machine lightly loaded then I want to get through the holidays before working on it.

 

[repairguy]

It’s rebuild time.

 

[combo52]

Yes, it needs major repairs

You may be able to wash some clothes if you load it lightly and use the low speed agitation it probably won’t jump out to gear as much and then finish the cycle by respining heavy loads on the fast spin cycle so you can get a little bit more water out of the clothing.

John

 

[pixelhack]

Rebuilding transmission 1973 Kenmore C110.470200

As expected the agitator spring is broken and the transmission is full of something that once was oil. The gear fork spring leans a bit to one side but was very strong when I was taking the transmission apart. There are some crunchy bits in the oil. The part of the agitator shaft that sticks up past the seal at the top is a bit pitted, but the part where the seal sits is smooth.

Does this seem rebuildable? If not where would I look for a transmission?

I found a source for the agitator spring kit with spring shield and seal (285672).

I found a source for seal #22 in the diagram (WP91939).

I found a source for a generic spin tube (383921G), so I am hopeful that will work.

I found a source for a Centerpost Seal/Bearing Kit (285134). Most of the part numbers in the kit do not match what is in my diagrams except for the Bearing Centre-Post (WP8546455), but I am hopeful that means that some of the other stuff in the kit is usable because I can't find any seals otherwise.

No luck finding a gasket. Is Permatex gasket maker ok instead?

Is using 90 weight gear oil ok?

Taking the agitator off almost killed me until I used the 2x4 and ratchet strap method.

 

[maytag85]

That’s what the used Whirlpool transmission looked like when I cracked it open a few years ago. Considering on packing it with corn head grease for experimenting purposes and see if it’ll work in a Whirlpool transmission with leaking and compromised seals.

 

[qsd-dan]

Looks like water contamination to me. Once you clean up the gears, you'll have a better idea if they're too pitted/corroded for a rebuild.

 

[114jwh]

Are you referring to the cork transmission gasket? If so the part number is 95089 and looks like there are some on eBay.

How is the condition of the outer tub? These sometimes can rust through so I would clean it up so you can get a good look and make sure its salvageable.

As for the oil, I'll defer to the experts on that one. I do know that the OEM oil is still available, albeit expensive. PN is 350572.

The new spin tube has the agitator shaft gaskets already installed in it if I remember correctly (#22). But if you want to make it easier on yourself, get a whole new basket drive, it will have a new spintube already installed and then you have the benefit of not having to worry about something else failing in the whole assembly. Looks like its available, #2 on your diagram and a really good price on Amre Supply.

As for the transmission, I'll also defer to the experts on that one. When I rebuilt mine I just replaced the spring kit and the rest was fine

 

[maytag85]

Reply #16

I put Royal Purple 90 weight gear oil in the original transmission to my 1963 RCA Whirlpool Imperial Mark XII, has been working flawlessly for almost 2 years with no ill sounds or effects. Thought there was a issue with the transmission late last year but turns out the set screw on the transmission worked loose making a clunking sound making thinking it was the transmission but turns out the transmission pulley was working loose.

 

[combo52]

Rebuilding a Belt Dr., Whirlpool transmission

I would look for another transmission it can probably be fixed if you really wanna go to the mat with us.

It all depends what the gears look like but if they’re at all worn it’s time for a different transmission these things are still common we have so many of them around. I literally threw away 30 of them the other month I’ll never use them. They went for recycling.

You can use 70 to 90 weight oil doesn’t matter. Don’t waste your money buying it from whirlpool there’s nothing special about it. the stuff you get it an automotive store is much better than what they used in washing machines.

The main problem rebuilding this machine is keeping water out of the transmission the agitator and spin to seal areas need to be in perfect condition with new seals, etc. otherwise it’s a waste of time to rebuild. It won’t last two years if water gets in it again.

John

 

[pixelhack]

This is like that kid's game GO GO STOP, but it is more like STOP STOP GO. I'm constantly thinking I see a light at the end of the tunnel but its a train...I would have been a goner if you folks hadn't kept pulling me off the tracks.

The gears in the transmission are ok and with all the help I have gotten here I have now found most parts. The gasket came off without much trouble, I think I can reuse it with a little bead of RTV on one side during install.

I was wrong about the gear fork spring. It was probably a few washes away from breaking into pieces.

I was wrong about the agitator shaft and it is pitted right where the upper seal sits. No luck finding a shaft which I think is part #285036. I suppose I could slather some JB-Weld on it and file it down. (In the good old days I would weld it up and turn it in a lathe but I have zero access to a shop now.)

Current challenge is getting the basket off, I have no wrench for that lovely nut that sits on top. I'll play with it a little then chisel it off if I don't have any luck with it.

I have started looking for a transmission but I think it is harder to find things like that here in Canada. For at least 10-15 years I have been driving past a used appliance store that would have a row of machines lined up on the sidewalk on a sunny day. Of course today when I go looking for it I find that during covid it has disappeared and there is now a tattoo shop there.

 

[114jwh]

I used a giant vise grip plier that fit around the nut once before I had a spanner wrench. I locked it in place then hit it with a hammer once the nut had been soaking in WD40 for a long time.

Where in Canada are you? One of the Canadian folks may be able to recommend a shop depending on where you are to help try and locate an agitator shaft or transmission. 285036 was the shaft but there was also a kit that included the shaft 285037.

 

[pixelhack]

I am in Vancouver. I have called around and haven't had any luck so far. I learned that if I say I have already called AMRE and Reliable Parts that most of the time they say they can't help me. One guy laughed out loud but he was the most helpful and gave me a couple hints that I already got here.

 

[pixelhack]

I got the basket off and also think I have found all the parts I will need.

I even managed to get the nut off without cutting it. After a lot of tap tap tapping on the nut with a punch it started to move.

Should the tub come out or is better to work on it in place?

 

[114jwh]

Great news that you managed to get all the parts you need. What kind of shape is the outer tub and the centrepost in? Often the tub bolts and the outer tub grommet are sources of leaks and in need of replacing during a rebuild which involves removing the outer tub - but depends on what kind of shape everything is in.

There are some great rebuild threads of belt drive machines on here that should help you during the process and what to watch out for if you haven't had a chance to review.

Keep us posted on how everything goes and if you run into roadblocks.

 

[pixelhack]

The bad news is they cancelled my parts order and I need to find parts again. So I have learned that even if you ask directly if they REALLY have the part you can't tell until you actually ORDER the part.

The good news is that I think my basket and tub are not too bad. I have posted a couple of pictures of the tub before cleaning, a picture after cleaning the tub a bit, the drain hole before cleaning and a picture of surface rust on the basket.

I have been looking at lots of rebuild threads but frankly a lot of stuff doesn't make sense until I have an AHA moment. Until then a lot of things go sailing right over my head. It could take me a few days to realize when I have asked a stupid question. For example when I started this journey I thought all I needed to do was replace the belt...

 

[repairguy]

That sure looks like a large chunk missing on that center post in picture 2.

 

[pixelhack]

That is an excellent point about the center post. I will give up on this machine now since I am still missing parts.

The good news is that using what I learned here about agitator removal with ratchet straps I have gotten the agitator off of a ge washing machine that has been sitting off to the side in the basement. That agitator proved impossible to remove a few years ago. I had been following some really bad advice from a free example on an online help-for-hire website which said you have to twist the agitator off. Turns out it pops off if you pull up. That ge washer has a transmission that probably needs a rebuild too. That transmission (WH38X10002) is unobtainable and not meant to be serviced but I found a youtube video that says you can fix it...LOL.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

 

[114jwh]

Sorry to hear the parts didn't work out and the not so great news about the centrepost. It could just be an illusion on the picture but it almost looks like its a bit crooked or is it just me?

Curious, do you have a picture of the control panel on this machine? If you are attached to it you could save it and if you found another belt drive in decent shape down the road you can sometimes swap the control panels with a little wiring modifications.

Good luck with your GE!

 

[pixelhack]

Kenmore memorial

Saving the control panel is a great idea. Oddly enough (but perhaps not so for readers of this forum) I felt obligated to try to bring my Kenmore back to full strength due to all the faithful service provided over the years. While I don't think I will ever find another in good shape for her control panel to sit on, I will save the faceplate and knobs on the control panel and mount it on the wall in my workshop like a plaque. Or better yet I will save the whole panel and put a couple of spare 4x6 speakers I have inside for a new workbench speaker.

I did have a couple of ideas I will never get to implement. One was to put a zinc strip in the transmission for cathodic protection. The springs in the transmission appeared to sacrifice themselves to protect the gears from corrosion so why not put something in to protect the springs? The other idea was to put a heat shrinkable adhesive lined tubing around the center post.

 

[combo52]

Reply 28

Things I won’t get to try on this washer.

Your third suggestion of sealing the outside of the center post to prevent further corrosion is probably a good one we have done that.

There’s really no need to try to keep transmission parts from corroding, etc.. Those transmissions are still a dime it doesn’t used I just put a good one in as long as you can keep water out of it it’ll last forever and nothing is gonna last no matter what you do if you have water in it, you might extend it a little bit.

Let us know what you find wrong with the GE.

John