Florida bans Gay marriage

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~sudsshane

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
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I never realized until tonight the how bigoted, hateful and intolerant the State of Florida is. I am ashamed to call myself a tax paying resident of this state, and if I could move tomorrow, I would. Not only has this amendment banned gay marriage, it has voided any protections given to same sex couples such as domestic partnerships and same sex benefits for city employees here in Orlando and other cities such as Miami and Tampa.

Here's how the vote went:

Yes: 4,414,880 62%
No: 2,678,415 38%

I urge all members of AW.org, worldwide, to reconsider your travel plans to the State of Florida and send a LOUD and CLEAR message to the 62% who voted for this measure that you can spend your hard earned money elsewhere.

Disgusted beyond belief.......
 
It looks like........

Prop 8 will pass in CA. How can California allow this to happen? This is already law!

What's also interesting is on the way to the polls today, I saw a large group of black voters, (women) holding Obama signs and also signs to ban gay marriage here in Florida. Obviously, many Democrats and Black voters helped this measure pass to ban gay marriage here in Florida.

If any group should not discriminate against others, it should be the black community.

I guess it's ok to be a bigoted homophobe.
 
Apathy

It's call apathy, Shane. Apathy on the part of the gay community for our tolerance and acceptance of being treated as less than. It has become ok with us. I don't see a Rosa Parks among us. I don't see a Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. among us..I don't see anyone speaking up for themselves and DEMANDING freedom. We sit, day by day, hoping tomorrow will be better. Did I do ALL I could have done for Prop 8? No. I donated money and left it up to the 'professionals' to get the job done. So blame me, and blame everyone of us who didn't do all they could. When the day comes that WE ALL do EVERYTHING we could have done, then I think we will win our freedom and will not longer be slaves to other peoples opinions and prejudice.The way out of chains is not to politely ask in a small whisper 'please sir, will you take these chains off of me?" I think not...it is time for new tactics, new plans..yes we can. Yes we can!
 
In the Navy I was stationed in Jacksonville and traveled all over the south, before my interactions with the people there it was easy to draw “slave-state” parallels and write off the South but after meeting so many people that treated me like family in spite of disapproval of some aspects of my personal life I concluded that this was a part of the world that just hates making big changes in its values even if the values in question are not the most fair and noble.

I just don’t see how cutting off travel to Florida or California or any place it will fix any injustice. I rather think that the federal government needs to do its job if a government is not willing protect its minority citizens from tyrannical domination by majority mob rule its time for the victims to take… NO DEMAND! What they are due.

Sounds like a Good job for a new and improved Supreme Court, as soon as our new and improved president can get rid of 1 or 2 of the gay haters that currently infest it. With that “Mission Accomplished” it will be time to collect on President Obamas kind words about Gay and straight is his speech.
 
Equal protection under the law.

Conncticut just voted on a referendum to form a constitutional covention to re-write their state's constitution to ban gay marriage, because as written there is no way to legally stop it, and their highest court ruled so.

Luckily, advertising indicated that such a measure to reqrite the state constitution would pander to special interests. Hopefully the populace saw through "the pressing need to rewrite the state constitution"

Don't know how that vote fared.

As much as such things are horribly ugly and disappoinitng, I expect them. As such, my world is not shattered when these disguisting things happen.

It is going to happen sooner or later. Why fight it?
 
Shane,

The problem is that many people don't see the same injustices that African Americans have experienced as the same as the ones homosexuals have. When questioned the response is "Well, that's different." Often I find those who are or have been discriminated against tend to be guilty of it themselves. What goes around comes around, they say. There are obvious exceptions, of course. However, it is going to be a long battle for gay rights.
 
Don't forget----- the State Capital is in Tallahassee---- in the northern part of the state-------really an extension of Alabama and Georgia. No surpise there!

This has been a major problem for the State of Florida for years and will continue to be---- unless and until the people of the state demand the Capital be moved to more progressive parts------ in the south of the state. And I'm not talking Tampa either!
 
Shane I understand you feelings and I am just as disappointed as you are. I am sure that there was more that we could have done to promote it but I really felt it has a good chance of passing. Here in my area we heard very little about it. The letters I did see in the paper seemed to support a no vote. One can only hope now that those that voted against it will feel the effects that are sure to follow. I think as James mentioned our best hope is the Supreme Court.
 
I seem to remember

a number of gays here who supported the conservative republican agenda. Why are they always surprised the rattlesnake they courted turned on them? You don't get it both ways. I don't think any gay person who voted for Mcsame should open their mouth about gay rights when they supported the conservatives.
 
Ok.....
The Chicken votes for the Colonel, and then he tries to play it that the Black Community caused the ban. That is way over the top!!

Shane, you are either racist, dumb as a box of rocks, or both.

Personally, I think you are both.

Mccain/Palin 08 YAY!!
 
Rick

Turn off your sensitivity chip for a change and you would see the point I was trying to make. You, yourself, have stated here publicly, on these threads, the homophobia in the black community,especially many of the churches. Don't you find it odd that we have historic black turnout, (96%), historic Democratic turnout, historic young voter turnout and this ban was voted in?

I thought these groups of people were supposedly progressive or "liberal" ????

Secondly, conservative gays are not allowed to discuss gay rights? John McCain's stand on gay marriage and banning it is identical to Barack Obama's. Republican turnout was low here compared to 2004, You can't blame this ban passing solely on conservative republicans.

Face it, this ban happened because MANY Democrats, white and black, young and old supported it.

I would also suggest that we shouldn't be attacking each other as we obviously have alot of work to do as a community.
This is a huge setback for the gay community as a whole.

A divided house will always fall.
 
Terry~

I agree with you. While I didn't support Obama, he is now the President and he is going to need the support of every American.

The silver lining for me, as someone who has some conservative leanings, is he will stack the Supreme Court with progressives or liberals who will eventually overturn these stupid bans.

Hope you are well Terry.
 
Shane, most churches do not support Gay rights, not just the Black churches.
The Black churches have done a great deal to hurt the Black community by being homophobic, is what I said.

Also, it is the OLDER people that tend to be homophobic.

I have lived in the Black Community for most of my life, and do not find my community to be homophobic at all. Every one of my friends know that I am gay, and I have many friends in this community.

You state the brothers and sisters were the ones that voted against Gay Rights when you voted against your rights also, in so many ways. How strange.
 
Shane, Prop 8 in California was substantially behind in the polls for many months, ever since it qualified for the ballot. And then Catholic generals, er excuse me, bishops ordered their troops, er excuse me, clergy to start preaching politics from their pulpits every day, and the religion was converted overnight into a political action committee.

Who were they preaching to? A heavily Catholic, traditionally homophobic Hispanic community. Oh, and add another $15 million spent by Mormons living in Idaho and Utah, to pass a ballot initiative in California.

Look at the county breakdown on this vote. Even Los Angeles County -- the world headquarters for entertainment liberals and West Hollywood gay culture -- passed it, primarily because of its huge numbers of Hispanic voters.

But this fight ain't over yet. Prop 8, as written, and the findings of our state Supreme Court in their recent decision on same-sex marriage, are mutually exclusive. The court has already defined same-sex marriage as a basic human right, and more importantly, a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of our constitution. And even more importantly the court said that the denial of this right is subject to strict scrutiny (the state, or people *must* show a compelling interest in denying marriage rights to same-sex couples).

11-5-2008-11-04-9--JeffG.jpg
 
Jeff~

Thanks for sharing the map. This helps me understand how this measure could pass in such a liberal state such as CA.

Do my eyes deceive me or did this pass in Los Angeles county?
 
Rick

I would also suggest to you that now that election is over and the people have spoken that you and I try and be respectful to each other on the threads. You don't know me personally and anyone on this site who does, can tell you first hand that the things you have accused me of being are simply not true. You and I were off to a good start early on. Remember when you offered me the vintage 1964 Filter Flo? I have not forgotten that and I choose to focus on the positive thoughts of you.

As for me voting against my rights, I don't feel as if I did. If it were any other Republican, other than John McCain running for President, Obama would have most likely gotten my vote. John McCain's story of heroism and his moderate voting record in the Supreme Court appealed to me. I have always had great affection for him, starting in 2000, during the GOP primaries with Bush.

While I agree, I was harsh on Obama often, it had nothing to do with his race. I, like many Hillary supporters nationwide, believed strongly in her, (still do), and it took some time to heal those wounds. I have moved on from that now and have accepted her loss. Fact is, she never took his candidacy seriously and he ran the better of the 2 campaigns.

Pres-Elect Obama is going to need the support of all Americans, even us McCain supporters. He has mine.
 
Hang in there....

I know this is upsetting for Gays who live in Florida. Remember you don't need a piece of paper to prove your love to anyone, but hang in there. I'm glad to say that in my state, Libby Dole is out (she replaced Jesse Helms) and we now have our first Democrate women governor. I think our new senior, Kay Hagen will be a advocate. It was also nice as well that our new president at least said some welcome words regarding gays in his speech. I agree with the other guys here, its going to take the Supeme Court to settle this.
I think we have come a long way since those days back in 1969 at Stone Wall, but we still have a long road ahead of us. I say lets first start by doing away with the band on gays in the military and let these folks serve!!
 
I have an opinion

Hopefully my opinion is as benign as it is intended. I ask myself what exactaly does marriage between two people of the same sex hurt?

Looking at other "moral" controversy

Gambling you can argue that in excess it can lead to financial ruin. Maybe it is supporting organized crime. You can at least argue that there could be a victim.

Pornography could be argued that it victimizes women, and those least able to protect themselves.

Prostitution victimizes women, and young girls. Often backed by organized crime, or people exploiting the women. Also unsafe in spreading diseases.

Drugs, linked to alcohol, and gambling along with other addicitve activities drugs ruin individuals and families financially, and physically.

Abortion is argued a procedure between a doctor and the patient. Also argued is a ending of an innocent life. The victim could be the woman herself that was raped by her step-dad. Another victim is always the child that is aborted. I can see why this polorizes the nation.

Gay marriage--who really cares. Why do they care? Who does it victimize, who is it hurting? Is it the breakdown of family values? The couples already are living together in the house next door, they shop at the same stores, and pay the same tax base. I don't see shootings every night from drive by GayBangers. Who are they hurting?

Like I said, just my opinion, you can flame this White, Pro-Life Catholic now.
 
I'll try poking a toe into the water. I hope I get it ba

The time for gay marrage WILL come. Should it be here already? Probably so. Every time this comes up for a vote the margin difference of those for and against get smaller and smaller. A few years back, it seems that the idea of approving same sex marrage even making it to the ballot at all wouldn't have been even possible. Now it's a hot topic and the close numbers seem to show that acceptance of this is growing. As frustrating as it is, this isn't going to happen overnight. It's taking time for people to realize that 'those gay people' aren't the society wrecking monsters that they are made out to be. Like it was said above, they are friends, neighbors, co-workers, family, etc. I am not homosexual myself but do not really care who is. I personally enjoy interacting with everyone here and do read the threads in this forum (even if the rants get a little heated) as it gives me perspectives I might not otherwise get which enables me to open my mind and thoughts a little more each time. We should all be capable of getting along here without too much in the way of namecalling regardless of sex, race, politics and religion.

That being said, I am Mormon, JeffG. Am I as devout as I should be? No. Am I comfortable with my relation with my God? Yes. Am I more open minded as many of my fellows? I sure hope to God I am. The one thing we ALL should try to avoid in this post election dusting off is painting with a broad brush. It seems that every time someone finds out I'm Mormon, the stereotypes begin. 'How's all your wives? Are you going to have 20 kids? Do you enjoy going door to door harrassing people?' Etc, etc, etc. Aaarrrgghh! Every time a polygamist gets ferreted out, the common assumption is 'Those Mormons used to all do that, so they must all still.' Kind of like people who hear 'homosexual' and immediately the picture of a brightly dressed, thin, weak guy with a lisp and a really bad swishy walk (as depicted in the older movies) comes to mind. Now, what am I trying to say? I'm not totally sure, myself, other than as soon as people can grow up, wise up, and get past years of being raised to think a certain way without questioning and QUESTION!, same sex marrage and other such issues will go the way of the dodo. THEN we can truly work together as one voice to deal with the issues that SHOULD be getting our attention.

I sure hope this came across the way I intended it to. I normally avoid some of these discussions as I am not the best with expressing my thoughts without tripping and falling...

RCD
 
Marriage is between a man and a woman. The gay community leaders fail because they try to change the definition of "marriage" and force "gay marriage" down a resistant society's throat. Why they didn't come up with something else or work on civil unions is beyond me.

How is it that a liberal state like CA can vote for Obama and against Prop 8? It must not be just the christianists, but moderate liberals, right?
 
Peter your Answer

Because we dont want to be told to sit at the back of the bus. Equal means equal.

RCD you said it very well and I applaud you for speaking up.
 
Semantics then?

To have a "marriage" legally recognized, it must have a civil (or legal) element. I don't see this as a theological struggle, but an idealogical one - fair treatment under the law. I don't know anyone who realistically expects any organized religion such as the Catholic church, Lutheran, etc. to change their definition of what constitutes a marriage.
 
gansty

You are correct. I sincerely doubt the Holy Father will sanction same sex unions in our lifetime, or in anyone's lifetime for that matter.

My own mother and father were not sanctioned by the church because they had been married before. Did this make them less in love, or me less ligitimate? They did a civil ceremoney that was recognized by the United States and it's commonwelaths which was just fine for them. I don't see the church changing the divorce/adultery stance anytime in the near future.

But the point of this thread was individual states not allowing Marriage/Civil unions for same sex couples. It is the state where the issue lies. The state recognizes marriage in most if not all churches, however, The Church does not recognize all civil ceremonies. So I see the issue with getting the state to recognize the unions and not worry further than that.
 
I heart well put

The most important thing is the right to do so, if chosen. My boyfriend grew up in deep Southern Baptist Georgia and is very resentful of religion. I was raised Catholic in IL. While I would be happy getting married in a Catholic church, he would never go for it.
 
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance

This is one of those moments when several factors coalesce: First, if you want something, you'll have to get it and then keep fighting with consistent fervor to keep it. Second, don't forget that the "liberal" California we think of is constituted by several counties out of the mix. Been to the inland portion lately? Third, this is a nice example of why we have a judiciary branch; we could hypothetically pass a law to preclude all blue-eyed people from qualifying for employment in the state of California, but the court would, hopefully, spot that and overturn it from a mile away.

The purpose of government is to protect rights. It is not to limit them. The protection of rights may involve limiting those that empower some while infringing upon the rights of others, but none may argue reasonably that gay marriage infringes upon anyone.

But, lemons to lemonade--we could always opt for ultimate egalitarianism and cease honoring all civil unions in California, and likewise discontinue reciprocity toward those of other states. I mean, after all, you just need a few legal documents to ensure succession of property and power of attorney, and you're there, right? What's good for the goose...
 
It's a fear and if not a hatred,a discomfort. IMHO

We are associated with HIV, and it just scares the hell out of middle america. Our cause was seeing an awakening in the early 80's. HIV was ignored as a "Gay Cancer", thousands died remember that? Poor Rock Hudson put it on the front page. To me its the elephant in the room. Shane you live in a beautiful state, its politics are not that much different from where many of the rest of us live, sad but true. Not a professor here, what do you all really think? It's awful when you find an old address book, and so many of our friends are gone, Yeah things have changed, but they havent changed that much, as of yet. just my couple a cents alr2903
 

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