For limited kitchen space look at Under sink dishwashers

[mattl]

From time to time I see discussions of 18" dishwashers like another current thread here, but I can't recall the last time I saw under sink dishwashers discussed.

 

While they are not the perfect solution, a full sized unit is best, if I had to choose between an under performing 18" unit and an under-sink model it would be a no brainer.  I speck'd one in a kitchen remodel years ago and the folks that used the unit were more than happy with it.  You do sacrifice a bit of space on the upper rack but all in all it's not a bad option.

 

At this point I think GE is the only manufacturer that make one but they have several options,

http://www.geappliances.com/ge/dishwashers/under-the-sink-dishwashers.htm

 

[tomturbomatic]

Is Hot Start Like Hot To Go?

WOW! Had not heard of "Hot Start." It made me think of Hot Rize in Martha White corn bread mix when Eva Mae Lefevre used to advertise from the piano bench. I guess hearing her talk and play is one more thing about Heaven I have to look forward to.

The picture looks like one of those Suzy Homemaker sink-dishwasher combinations. Does it still require the drain to be in the rear corner of the single bowl sink? I guess the plastic tub is more durable than the Plastisol coated metal tank. I still have the old green top rack from one of those. It sat on the front edges of the lower rack.[this post was last edited: 5/28/2016-12:52]

 

[appnut]

HotStart has been around for 10-15 years on their low-end models.  But not exactly sure what the sequence is other than appearing to extra water exchanges.  I doubt it actually fills with water and then pauses while the heating element heats the water. 

 

[logixx]

Not a dishwasher and probably not available in the US... but still a space saver.

 

[ilovewindex]

Here is what the Hot Start does

 

[appnut]

Thank you Jeff. 

 

[tomturbomatic]

Thank you

So this feature is used with the delay start when the operator is not there to purge the hot water line before the machine is started?

 

[henene4]

Basicly, it is a better way of a purge.

The water isn't just wasted down the drain but used for extra pre-rinses. Further, heating of the water tempers the whole interior and dishes, reducing temperature shock and increasing the temperature even further.

It's a purge on steroids.

 

[mattl]

The unit I put in a customer's remodel had, IIRC a double bowl sink.  The sink is a specialty unit, fairly shallow. The drains were in the middle.  the top rack was only a half rack of sorts.  The back half was only a few inches high, fine for a pie plate, casserole dish, wide and relitivly flat pieces worked fine in that space.

 

 

This set up is not for everyone but if space is tight it does work.

 

[mrboilwash]

I like the concept of under the sink dishwashers and when I had a chance to use a low end (fullsize) GE I found it cleaned much better than expected. A bit noisy though.
Wonder if those under the sink models also feature that funny pop up tower ?

As to hotstart, what a wasteful joke that is!
Two extra pre rinses to purge the water pipes and warm up the interior makes perfect sense, but wouldn`t it suffice to turn on the heating element in the main wash only ?

 

[logixx]

Seems to be a tower wash system..

 

[henene4]

@mrboilwash

Keep in mind we are talking the american 800 or so watt heater, so the heater only uses something like 300W in the 20 minutes it runs.

 

[mrboilwash]

You`re right Henrik, a third of a kW/h is rather negligible, even more so considering the low energy costs in the States.
Still seems somewhat odd and wastefull from a European point of view.

Guess it always comes down to the point of view, and that`s exactly what makes AW.org so unique and interesting. Americans tend to think it`s outrageous to pay for the extra electricity modern FLs use for their endless cycle times. For us it doesn`t seem to matter because most of the energy is used to heat the water.

 

[user 3941]

Thanks for the clarification on the Hot Start! What puzzles me though, is on the dial models, basically if you use the Hot Start option, you have to run a Heavy Wash/Pots-Pans because it's at the very beginning. Same for the dial model with electronic cycle selector....the dial has both Heavy and Start (Normal) but you can also select Normal or Pots-Pans on the electronic dial. So basically you can get a Heavy wash on Normal? lol. It's confusing.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Thank you for the answers, but

basically it is another way of heating the dishwasher by using more water and electricity. I thought that dishwashers had to meet energy standards for water and electricity use and while I see the value of this system, I did not know that dishwashers could get away with increasing their water and electricity use or is it OK to have higher energy and water consumption cycles as long as there is a basic cycle that uses so little energy that it satisfies the government bean counters?

 

[mrboilwash]

They`re not Energy Star qualified, are they ?

 

[tomturbomatic]

I dunno. I just thought that all new dishwashers had to have a fill valve with an aperture like an eye dropper.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard of these.

 

"... allows proper cleaning without affecting the energy label."

 

My guess is that Tom's right and this is simply a way to get around government regs and bow to the laws of physics.

 

I have the same question MrBoilWash has. Wouldn't it be easier to simply have the heating element on whenever incoming water is too cool? Also, when the tub is filling, there's little else going on, right? Therefore, more than 800 watts would be available.  Couldn't an in-line heater be added for use during those periods?  I know it seems like overkill, but certainly less so than Hot Start. It would also avoid the problem of additional water consumption. 

 

Have I missed something or neglected some law of physics?

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

 

[henene4]

That all would not be a problem.

It would be way more complicated and more expensive then just using some timer increments that would be blank otherwise.

 

[logixx]

These aren't Energy Star qualified, which is interesting, as even the $350 models qualify.

Also from the product page: "64 dBA Motor runs quietly to keep kitchen peaceful" Uhm... yeah.

 

[mrboilwash]

These aren`t Energy Star qualified

Which brings up another question. As we all know restrictions are getting harder and harder to obtain the blue Energy Star label. On the other hand it seems like there are no restrictions at all for the yellow Energy Guide lable.
I wonder if all that "bean counters" in the goverment don`t give a s**t about water and energy use as long as an appliance doesn`t apply for Energy Star ?

Is Energy Star really an obligation for new appliances or is it only market driven ? (Not enough demand for water and energy hogs)
Or is there an exeptional rule for anything less than a full size appliance ?
I`d really like to know.

 

[lordkenmore]

Under sink is an interesting idea. Especially since that area is a wasteland most of the time. (Seriously, I don't think I've known anyone who has stored more than cleaning supplies down there. Although I think my mother might have had a few broken appliances hidden in a dark corner under the corner counter area.)

It won't work for me--I think I was one who mentioned space issues--since I rent...

 

[combo52]

All Appliances Sold In The US Must Meet Energy Usage

Targets, only appliances that exceed energy targets by a certain amount can get an ES label.

 

ALL Appliances sold that are subject to energy standards [ and DWs along with most other major appliances are ] today are far better than appliances in terms of overall energy usage, often in appliances such as Frost Free Refs by as much as 3 or 4 times better in electricity usage alone.