powerfin64
Well-known member
Aquarius1984..
AMEN! Well done all the way!
AMEN! Well done all the way!
For the guys that ONLY wash in cold water
- Thread starter dj-gabriele
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Replies #6 & #9
I am glad bosch2460 knows that currently, only Cheer powder contains NO optical brighteners, as all the liquid versions now do have them. The "Cheer for Darks" liquid has no optical brighteners, but is extremely sudsy. To Roscoe62, there is currently no Cheer HE powder formula, sadly. I have tried the 2 year old regular powder in my front-loader, using about 1/4 cup, and it makes quite a bit of suds. I currently use Miele Ultra Color powder, and Persil Color Gel(blue) for my colors. I use Seventh Generation Bergamot & Citrus powder(contains oxy bleach, but no brighteners), Legacy of Clean(Amway)SA8 with Bioquest powder, and Persil Universal Gel(green)for all my whites and lights. I have never used chlorine bleach in my Samsung yet, and don't ever expect to. Occasionally I add ammonia for extra soiled laundry, and NEVER any fabric softener.
I am glad bosch2460 knows that currently, only Cheer powder contains NO optical brighteners, as all the liquid versions now do have them. The "Cheer for Darks" liquid has no optical brighteners, but is extremely sudsy. To Roscoe62, there is currently no Cheer HE powder formula, sadly. I have tried the 2 year old regular powder in my front-loader, using about 1/4 cup, and it makes quite a bit of suds. I currently use Miele Ultra Color powder, and Persil Color Gel(blue) for my colors. I use Seventh Generation Bergamot & Citrus powder(contains oxy bleach, but no brighteners), Legacy of Clean(Amway)SA8 with Bioquest powder, and Persil Universal Gel(green)for all my whites and lights. I have never used chlorine bleach in my Samsung yet, and don't ever expect to. Occasionally I add ammonia for extra soiled laundry, and NEVER any fabric softener.
Reply #7 from "gorenje" Cold Water Bleaching
Ingemar, for those who really know, chlorine bleach works BEST in cold water. Using only hot water as an effective solution is a myth. I would never use "tap cold" water that's quite frigid, to do ANY laundry, but the chlorine bleach would work best in "automatic temperature cold" which is about 80 degrees Fahrenheit.
Ingemar, for those who really know, chlorine bleach works BEST in cold water. Using only hot water as an effective solution is a myth. I would never use "tap cold" water that's quite frigid, to do ANY laundry, but the chlorine bleach would work best in "automatic temperature cold" which is about 80 degrees Fahrenheit.
Thank you Jsneaker for the replay,
I know that Bleach works best in Cold because the Hot water "kills" the power of Chlorine and shortens the bleaching activity.
My question was not exactly about cold water bleaching, but how white the whites would be without the use of Bleach.
Are you over there using Bleach as a routine when you are washing whites? Or is it possible to achieve really white whites also using the detergent alone?
"Using only hot water as an effective solution is a myth."
Not completly. Over here we don't use Bleach for doing laundry but our "bleach" is in fact the Hot water because it activates the perborates (oxygen whiteners) in the detergent.
(Sorry if I write also two sentences about Cheer detergent. Maybe it could be interesting also to understand the differences between waters. I have a box of the regular American Cheer Bright Clean detergent and I can use 3/4 Scoop for a 2,5 Kg load without suds problems in my Front loader. My water is quite Hard.)
Ingemar
I know that Bleach works best in Cold because the Hot water "kills" the power of Chlorine and shortens the bleaching activity.
My question was not exactly about cold water bleaching, but how white the whites would be without the use of Bleach.
Are you over there using Bleach as a routine when you are washing whites? Or is it possible to achieve really white whites also using the detergent alone?
"Using only hot water as an effective solution is a myth."
Not completly. Over here we don't use Bleach for doing laundry but our "bleach" is in fact the Hot water because it activates the perborates (oxygen whiteners) in the detergent.
(Sorry if I write also two sentences about Cheer detergent. Maybe it could be interesting also to understand the differences between waters. I have a box of the regular American Cheer Bright Clean detergent and I can use 3/4 Scoop for a 2,5 Kg load without suds problems in my Front loader. My water is quite Hard.)
Ingemar
If whites are rinsed properly they will remain white
The dinginess of whites and light colored fabrics is caused by poor rinsing or washing them in badly sorted loads with darks. It becomes apparent over time as residue builds up in the fabric. So, yes, it is possible to keep your whites very white washing in cold water and without bleach. Here in Australia many people line dry their clothes in the sun, which is ideal for whites. They also wash a lot in cold water and mostly the clothes people wear are just as clean and radiant as in other developed countries.
The dinginess of whites and light colored fabrics is caused by poor rinsing or washing them in badly sorted loads with darks. It becomes apparent over time as residue builds up in the fabric. So, yes, it is possible to keep your whites very white washing in cold water and without bleach. Here in Australia many people line dry their clothes in the sun, which is ideal for whites. They also wash a lot in cold water and mostly the clothes people wear are just as clean and radiant as in other developed countries.
Re: Reply 83 from gorenje
Hi Ingemar!
I am sorry, I meant to say that people who insist on using hot water for chlorine bleach, that is not effective as we were told growing-up. Your regular "Bright Clean Cheer" powder may not make so many suds because your water is so hard! It has no optical brighteners. How does it clean in your machine with the hard water? Our water here on Long Island is very soft-so soft they have to add lime to reduce the acidity! It is a strong recommendation to use low-suds detergents here. It is so funny-go to any laundromat here(EXPENSIVE!) and find most people overuse the regular detergent in the front-loaders with high suds!
I do not ever use any chlorine bleach in my Samsung. I also notice that when I use any liquid, it leaves a slime around the tub/door gasket, which I wipe-off. I always leave my machine's door wide-open, and remove the detergent dispenser to dry-out the machine until the next laundry day. I use Seventh Generation Natural Powder which has sodium perborates, mainly for my whites/lights. It provides outstanding white cleaning in hot water. I mostly use my machine's "Towels" cycle on "heavy", as it effectively uses more water to clean clothes in a total of 118 minutes. That is still too long for me to deal with. My washer still smells new after it arrived May 30, 2010!
Jason
Hi Ingemar!
I am sorry, I meant to say that people who insist on using hot water for chlorine bleach, that is not effective as we were told growing-up. Your regular "Bright Clean Cheer" powder may not make so many suds because your water is so hard! It has no optical brighteners. How does it clean in your machine with the hard water? Our water here on Long Island is very soft-so soft they have to add lime to reduce the acidity! It is a strong recommendation to use low-suds detergents here. It is so funny-go to any laundromat here(EXPENSIVE!) and find most people overuse the regular detergent in the front-loaders with high suds!
I do not ever use any chlorine bleach in my Samsung. I also notice that when I use any liquid, it leaves a slime around the tub/door gasket, which I wipe-off. I always leave my machine's door wide-open, and remove the detergent dispenser to dry-out the machine until the next laundry day. I use Seventh Generation Natural Powder which has sodium perborates, mainly for my whites/lights. It provides outstanding white cleaning in hot water. I mostly use my machine's "Towels" cycle on "heavy", as it effectively uses more water to clean clothes in a total of 118 minutes. That is still too long for me to deal with. My washer still smells new after it arrived May 30, 2010!
Jason
@ Jason
Hi Jason,
I use the powdered Cheer only for colored Polo Shirts / T-Shirts and others colorful garments on 40°C because it leaves the colors really bright. (or at least it seems to me so)
This is what I like about it.
If there are no stains it does a OK job, but if stains are present not so. The main thing I don't like is that after the wash is done there is absolutely no perfume on the clothes.
I have never used it on whites and I never will. (because of the high temperature and long cycle but mainly because I don't know how long an American detergent suspends dirt and soil in the wash cycle)
For whites I use my European powdered detergent and I'm sure not to fail.
Ingemar
Hi Jason,
I use the powdered Cheer only for colored Polo Shirts / T-Shirts and others colorful garments on 40°C because it leaves the colors really bright. (or at least it seems to me so)
This is what I like about it.
If there are no stains it does a OK job, but if stains are present not so. The main thing I don't like is that after the wash is done there is absolutely no perfume on the clothes.
I have never used it on whites and I never will. (because of the high temperature and long cycle but mainly because I don't know how long an American detergent suspends dirt and soil in the wash cycle)
For whites I use my European powdered detergent and I'm sure not to fail.
Ingemar
bosch2460
Well-known member
FWIW
I use the Cheer Bright--whatever it's called. I only use 2 TBS. I do have mechanically softened water. I also have a Euro Miele (220v). No issues with suds or cleaning with Cheer. Cheer does fine on whites, just FYI. I just prefer something "with bleach". I never use chlorine bleach either, just hot washes and I line dry as much as possible. My whites will hurt your eyes in bright sunlight, and that is the way I like it.
While I am sure cold water washes, with bleach and proper rinsing, will keep whites white. I still find it more effort to wash in cold due to having to soak, bleach, and pre-treat every single stain, versus a single hot wash with just detergent. I would not be caught dead washing towels, sheets, or underwear on cold water.
I use the Cheer Bright--whatever it's called. I only use 2 TBS. I do have mechanically softened water. I also have a Euro Miele (220v). No issues with suds or cleaning with Cheer. Cheer does fine on whites, just FYI. I just prefer something "with bleach". I never use chlorine bleach either, just hot washes and I line dry as much as possible. My whites will hurt your eyes in bright sunlight, and that is the way I like it.
While I am sure cold water washes, with bleach and proper rinsing, will keep whites white. I still find it more effort to wash in cold due to having to soak, bleach, and pre-treat every single stain, versus a single hot wash with just detergent. I would not be caught dead washing towels, sheets, or underwear on cold water.
Hot Water "Kills" Chlorine Bleach
Er, no it does not.
While chlorine bleach will work in all water temperatures (hot,warm and cold), it's stain removal only takes about five minutes at the most of contact time. This time will be shorter the warmer the water. After that period no further stain removal/whitening will take place and further contact time only increases possible damage to the textiles.
Commercial laundries often use a LCB "bleach cycle" at temps >140F or even 160F. The high temperature serves to purposes; it makes for a shorter cycle/contact time and if the bath is properly adjusted a good portion of the chlorine will gas off meaning less rinsing is required.
What chlorine bleach does kill is enzymes. This is why detergents used to advise consumers to add the stuff about five minutes after the wash cycle began. Many modern front loaders take a cue from commercial laundries and simply have a separate bleach cycle (usually the first rinse) after the main wash. Again since the contact time with chlorine bleach is so short a rinse cycle timing is fine.
Er, no it does not.
While chlorine bleach will work in all water temperatures (hot,warm and cold), it's stain removal only takes about five minutes at the most of contact time. This time will be shorter the warmer the water. After that period no further stain removal/whitening will take place and further contact time only increases possible damage to the textiles.
Commercial laundries often use a LCB "bleach cycle" at temps >140F or even 160F. The high temperature serves to purposes; it makes for a shorter cycle/contact time and if the bath is properly adjusted a good portion of the chlorine will gas off meaning less rinsing is required.
What chlorine bleach does kill is enzymes. This is why detergents used to advise consumers to add the stuff about five minutes after the wash cycle began. Many modern front loaders take a cue from commercial laundries and simply have a separate bleach cycle (usually the first rinse) after the main wash. Again since the contact time with chlorine bleach is so short a rinse cycle timing is fine.
Even back in the late '60 and '70 our front loaders had the bleach cycle at the first rinse and not in the wash water (for those who wanted to use it).
Today's front loaders (at least here) have all long ago abandoned this feature.
One think I know for sure is that Chlorine Bleach and detergent foams a lot.
Once I was hand washing something very dirty with powdered detergent. Than I added some Chlorine Bleach and everything has become so foamy, almost like a shave foam. I've also noticed that Chlorine Bleach alone take stains out easily than in combination with detergent.
(the other thing I also know for sure is that Clorine Bleach should not be mixed with Ammonia because it releases highly toxic Chlorine Gas, but this fact is already well known by everyone, it's also written on the bottle)
Today's front loaders (at least here) have all long ago abandoned this feature.
One think I know for sure is that Chlorine Bleach and detergent foams a lot.
Once I was hand washing something very dirty with powdered detergent. Than I added some Chlorine Bleach and everything has become so foamy, almost like a shave foam. I've also noticed that Chlorine Bleach alone take stains out easily than in combination with detergent.
(the other thing I also know for sure is that Clorine Bleach should not be mixed with Ammonia because it releases highly toxic Chlorine Gas, but this fact is already well known by everyone, it's also written on the bottle)
joe_in_philly
Well-known member
As far as I know, Whirlpool designed FL washers, including my Kenmore HE3t, dispense bleach in the first rinse.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
not related to cold or hot water wash and i am not hitting o
yet another proof that for me fl washer is a bad choice for me my duet washer has that feature and i hate that feature as it damages my clothes with a top load washer this is not a problem because if i have to use bleach witch is very rare 1% of the time i would put it as the washer fills in the wash tub for the first wash the rinse portion of a cycle is meant for rinsing clothes not adding bleach and in case you do not know this when you see this symbol on a care label guide that means do not use bleach i for one thing can say that my bed sheets can not take clorine bleach because they get damage if i have to use some it will be the color safe non clorine type like clorox2 color safe bleach.
yet another proof that for me fl washer is a bad choice for me my duet washer has that feature and i hate that feature as it damages my clothes with a top load washer this is not a problem because if i have to use bleach witch is very rare 1% of the time i would put it as the washer fills in the wash tub for the first wash the rinse portion of a cycle is meant for rinsing clothes not adding bleach and in case you do not know this when you see this symbol on a care label guide that means do not use bleach i for one thing can say that my bed sheets can not take clorine bleach because they get damage if i have to use some it will be the color safe non clorine type like clorox2 color safe bleach.
ronhic
Well-known member
Pierre...
...well you go right ahead and wash the way you prefer.
On the other hand, most of us here will listen to those with many many years of experience and far greater knowledge in order to learn how it should be done to improve our results. Launderess is one such person you can learn from as are all the manufacturers that dispense bleach either at the END of the wash portion of a cycle or in the first rinse.
Personally, I like to know how and when a product should be introduced even if I don't use it - Only Speek Queen front load machines sold in Oz are likely have a bleach dispenser, no others do and only a few top load machines have one.
...well you go right ahead and wash the way you prefer.
On the other hand, most of us here will listen to those with many many years of experience and far greater knowledge in order to learn how it should be done to improve our results. Launderess is one such person you can learn from as are all the manufacturers that dispense bleach either at the END of the wash portion of a cycle or in the first rinse.
Personally, I like to know how and when a product should be introduced even if I don't use it - Only Speek Queen front load machines sold in Oz are likely have a bleach dispenser, no others do and only a few top load machines have one.
Since also here only few front loaders have the Bleach dispenser the manufacturers of washing machines and also producers of Bleaches advise to those who would like to use it to add the Bleach (cca. 220 ml) in the prewash cycle without the detergent and than to proceed normaly with the main wash cycle with the detergent.
Otherwise if the machine has the dispenser it is dispensed in the first rinse (just a few ml).
Ingemar
Otherwise if the machine has the dispenser it is dispensed in the first rinse (just a few ml).
Ingemar
Top Loading Washing Machines And Chlorine Bleach
Adding chlorine bleach to the start of a wash cycle by whatever method one chooses still isn't a wonderful idea. Again most of the bleaching including stain removal will have occured within five minutes or less, longer wash times in a bleach bath does nothing to shift soils/stains furhter and only serves to wreck havoc on textiles.
Many top loading washing machines dispensed bleach during the last portion of a timed wash cycle and the better designed dispensers sent the bleach down between the tubs so it could be mixed with water. Indeed cannot think of anyone "silly" enough to design a bleach dispense that would *dump* the thing directly onto laundry, but I could be wrong.
Chlorine bleach is *very* difficult to rinse out of textiles especially cotton. Most American top loaders only offer one rinse with some in the past or perhaps even today have two. If chlorine bleach was used for laundering regardless of the cycle the wash needs to be rinsed until one can no longer smell LCB. If you can still detect even a whiff of the stuff then it is still there.
Chlorine bleach residue in textiles continues to work upon the goods if not rinsed/neutralised away. This is can lead to yellowing, weakening, holes and the other damamge so often associated with it's use. Commercial laundries and or professional laundry workers have long known about various chemcials that act as "anti-chlors". However their purpose is to deal with the final traces of bleach after the wash has been properly rinsed.
Europeans have long known about the dangers of "eau de Javelle" and is one of the reasons oxygen bleaches have long be favoured on that side of the pond. However the shorter wash cycles and diluted water conditions of top loaders have long favoured chlorine bleach. Even with P&G and all it's research and advances in activated oxgyen bleaching systems Amercians still pour chlorine bleach into wash loads that use "Tide With Bleach" or any of the other oxygen bleach containing detergents, totally cancelling the benefits of both.
Also as American housewives moved away from pre-soaking/washing and boiling laundry chlorine bleach went from the occasional use to mandatory for a "whiter than white" wash.
Adding chlorine bleach to the start of a wash cycle by whatever method one chooses still isn't a wonderful idea. Again most of the bleaching including stain removal will have occured within five minutes or less, longer wash times in a bleach bath does nothing to shift soils/stains furhter and only serves to wreck havoc on textiles.
Many top loading washing machines dispensed bleach during the last portion of a timed wash cycle and the better designed dispensers sent the bleach down between the tubs so it could be mixed with water. Indeed cannot think of anyone "silly" enough to design a bleach dispense that would *dump* the thing directly onto laundry, but I could be wrong.
Chlorine bleach is *very* difficult to rinse out of textiles especially cotton. Most American top loaders only offer one rinse with some in the past or perhaps even today have two. If chlorine bleach was used for laundering regardless of the cycle the wash needs to be rinsed until one can no longer smell LCB. If you can still detect even a whiff of the stuff then it is still there.
Chlorine bleach residue in textiles continues to work upon the goods if not rinsed/neutralised away. This is can lead to yellowing, weakening, holes and the other damamge so often associated with it's use. Commercial laundries and or professional laundry workers have long known about various chemcials that act as "anti-chlors". However their purpose is to deal with the final traces of bleach after the wash has been properly rinsed.
Europeans have long known about the dangers of "eau de Javelle" and is one of the reasons oxygen bleaches have long be favoured on that side of the pond. However the shorter wash cycles and diluted water conditions of top loaders have long favoured chlorine bleach. Even with P&G and all it's research and advances in activated oxgyen bleaching systems Amercians still pour chlorine bleach into wash loads that use "Tide With Bleach" or any of the other oxygen bleach containing detergents, totally cancelling the benefits of both.
Also as American housewives moved away from pre-soaking/washing and boiling laundry chlorine bleach went from the occasional use to mandatory for a "whiter than white" wash.
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