For your "alternative energy" friends

[kevinpreston8]

We all have friends who just can't imagine why we are not more like "Brazil" and don't simply run our cars on sugar cane!

I actually called in a radio talk show (KABC in Los Angeles) where that totally numb wife of Larry David, Laurie with her enviro-nuts campaign, was a guest. I called in and mentioned some of the facts reflected in this article, particularly in the areas of costs and energy in for the amount of energy out.

You know what Ms. David's response was?

We need a government subsidy to make it all happen.

Yep.

So, let's fix the energy problem by growing crops that we can't grow, at a greater cost for less energy, and on top of that greater cost, lets pay more in taxes for the government subsidization.

I want to scream.

What I wanted to ask Ms. David was whether the world really needs as much bad entertainment that we have on screen now. Think of all the energy in transportation, electricity, gas use we could save if we threw out 80% of the junk programming that she and her friends helped create and were left with the remaining good entertainment. Not to mention the savings if we cut out all the self-serving awards shows. Just the savings on the lighting bills, imagine!

Perhaps we should start there for our energy independence.

But they had to move onto another caller.

http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=21042

 

[Maytagmom]

Brazilian Wax Job

Give her one of those, and listen to HER scream.

Sorry, my bad ;-)

 

[toggleswitch]

yuk yuk yuk yuk

 

[gansky1]

Getting the truth out about ethanol is the most difficult obstacle to debunking the myth of energy independence resting on our ability to turn corn and wheat stalks into gasoline. Again, the foxes in charge of the henhouse partnered with the Agriculture lobby groups (cash) got this bill passed without investigation or debate into it's extremely remote feasability or cost effectiveness. The transportation network needed for supplying the ethanol to the entire nation doesn't even exist so the final cost to the consumer IS a government subsidy and higher prices at the gas pump becase as stated in the article, it costs more in energy to make and deliver ethanol than it provides.

Good for you, Kevin, hopefully you made at least one other person listening to the broadcast stop and think for a minute!

Write your congressional representatives!!

 

[kevinpreston8]

Thanks Gansky...

I am all for energy independence and alternative ideas. However, to be perfectly honest, I think they are many years away. Hybrids are only a band aid, and heck, you can get close with newer cleaner standard ICEs without all the added on complexity. Once again, marketing and hype.

There are all sorts of alternative energies we could go with. However, do people want to pay the equivalent of 8 or 10 dollars a gallon, and maybe more taxes to boot? And this would not be a temporary price situation either.

What do I think? (And I could be all wrong). Internal combustion engines running on gasoline will continue for a great number of years. In the long term, fusion nuclear facilities, and a mix of electric, hydrogen and even some gas powered vehicles in the future. It is also quite possible that we are able to produce something for ICEs to burn that that has not been developed yet. That would be awesome, and less complex than hydrogen.

Like it or not, there is nothing that meets the ICE for energy efficiency and power for the $$$, even at $4 a gallon. It galls me that people get on the radio and simply quote junk science and can't understand why we don't run our cars on sugar cane or restaurant grease. These are the same dolts that give you a dirty look when you drive your SUV but have no problem air conditioning their 5000 square foot house year round.

I could be wrong, but I doubt very much that "big oil" would have any kind of problem converting over to a new kind of power. They still have refineries (sure they would have to be converted), distribution, retail, some transport and operations facilities. It's a natural transition and there's a place for them, once the technology is there and we decide on direction. So I don't buy the argument that "big oil" is killing any developmental efforts for other technologies.

 

[petek]

danged infernal combustible ingines will never replace the horse!!!

 

[Designgeek]

That's what happens when you get laypeople in the media trying to talk about engineering topics.

First of all, for government subsidies, nothing beats the subsidies to automobiles in the form of highway construction and favorable tax treatment for developers who build sprawl.

Second, the economics of fuel production vary locally, but the markets operate globally, so it is terribly easy to make apples-to-oranges comparisons without even trying.

I understand that in Oregon, at present, biodiesel without any government subsidies, has just become less costly than petroleum-based motor fuels.

Fuel distribution networks can be built out as supply and demand increase to justify the costs. This is not difficult, nor does it require government money.

Don't forget nuclear and wind, both of which will stand on their own feet right now without subsidies. Replacing fossil fuels with clean energy sources such as these will not only mitigate climate impact, but reduce the economic impact of peak oil.

Most conservation measures can be done with little or no adverse impact on individuals. Some are bound to be controversial, e.g. high-efficiency washers that some folks here love and some despise. However, you don't have to use every new high-efficiency product in order to make a difference: pick the ones that work for you, ignore the ones that don't, and the market will eventually deal with the latter by offering improved versions that meet the objections.

 

[tomturbomatic]

The brothers on Myth Busters tested a Diesel Mercedes with one gallon of diesel fuel and got 33.3 miles to the gallon. Then they poured a gallon of strained fat from a restaurant deep fat fryer. They did not even know if the engine would start, but it did, ran smoothly and got 30.3 miles to the gallon on the same test track from something that is largely waste.

I still want to get to that Stanley Steamer Museum up in Kingfield, Maine. Maybe steamers will make a come back somehow or the technology will enable diesel-electric cars, eliminating heavy drive train parts with electric power to traction motors.

We have these automobiles to thank for the word chauffeur, literally one who carries the heat, a stoker who fired up the steamer automobile.

 

[jasonl]

Vegetable oil can be turned into diesel

There's a kit for my Beetle (and many others) that I can dump waste oil in it (filtered of course).

There's a machine that will make the stuff in a 55gal drum and no parts needed for the car.