FOUND!!! KA "Superlative" KDSC 21A!!

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OLd KA Design

They should have kept the same design for the adjustable racks. Now everything is plastic!
 
Replacement pump top

Hi Jon, congrats on your find. You do wake up early!! :)

It looks like the pump top might have a tear in the fine filter mesh. I've seen replacement pump tops on eBay, but if you can't find one I have two used ones in good shape. Racks are somewhat harder to find, but they are out there.

Good luck & have fun with it!
 
Here is what mine looked like when I got it..

I didn't have any screen at all but thanks to SteveT I have a good one now. It washed OK but did not filter as well as it does now obviously. At the time I was looking I didn't see any on eBay but they do pop up from time to time. All in all is a solid performer in my opinion.

chachp++3-17-2013-11-53-0.jpg
 
Ralph

That 21 with the panel off sounds as loud as my KDP-20 with the door closed!! I can't believe how quiet it is with the door closed. Can't wait!!

 

Thanks moparwash I will keep that bottom rack offer in mind as I haven't had a chance to look the old girl over completely yet.

 

Eddie it will go up to Melrose for now , I wouldnt' expose a rebuilt machine to rentals , they can use my 25 till I'm done renting!!

 

Its spring we need to get together for  a spring meet!!!

 

 

 
 
I think this is one of the early WP design KA's!!

It's pure Hobart, through and through!

 

I believe these only have one rinse cycle, with a quick purge right before.
 
Don't be so fast to move out the 20 Patrician!

When I had mine, I would stand there with a 3 qt pitcher of hot water to add as soon as the purge between wash and rinse had finished filling. I would quickly add the water and it was enough to at least rinse the lower rack and completely drain before the rinse. If I did not do that, it would leave a fine white dust type film on everything. This was the first experience I had with fill, heat, throw hot water on cold dishes and take so much time doing it that the water in the lines cooled for the wash fill. As I remember, there was no heating delay to assure a 140F wash. You could start out with the Rinse-Hold to warm things, but that did not help the rinsing situation. I also found that I really noticed the absence of the constant rinse.

I hope you enjoy yours more than I did, but keep the Patrician handy to reinstall.
 
Yes that is a concern Tom good point

I looked up the cycle chart for the 21A and found there is heating in the wash cycle while pumping up tp 140 degrees there are also 3 purges before the one rinse. Each purge is 3 QTS like you mention.

But I then looked at the cycle chart for my KUD-25 and found it had 1 purge but they went back to 2 rinses!!

So I am at 6's & 7's now. I love the performance of my 20 Patrician, I wonder now if there is a way to put in a 3 rinse timer on the 21A??

OH STEVET??? CALLING STEVET??
 
KDS-21 KA DWs

These had a little better more rugged pump design than the 18-20 machines but the overall performance was very lacking. Soon after WP bought out KA we took out quite a few KD21s out and replaced them with WP Power-Clean DWs at WP expense because of the poor performance of these DWs. I agree with Tom I would never bother with a KD 21or 22 DW if you want great performance, but I am sure that Stevet will run up to Boston and install a KDS20 timer in it for you Jon, LOL.
 
I would love to find a Superba 21 with a dead timer and replace it with something like a Raspberry Pi and relay board. This way, I could program the cycles the way I wanted them to work, such as adding additional rinses or lengthening the wash time for better cleaning. Not to mention opening the fill valve for 15 or so seconds before the end of the drain period so that the water is always nice and hot... but I guess that was one of the purposes of the quick purges before a major section of the cycle, other than cleaning the filter.
 
KD20 timer??? or fill valve adjustment???

John Combo,
Since you have access to so much more literature than anyone here, would you have a part number for the very late 20 timers which they used on the 20's that had the reversing motors? I could swear that they used them for a short time but then Jetcone would also need a new program switch and wiring harness to make it work with the extra rinse if it still had the double rinses.

I still think it is easier to remove the flow washer from the fill valve and adjust the water pressure to fill the machine for each purge which will give much better rinsing all around. I did that in my Custom 21 and it made a tremendous difference in performance and results.
When I had my 20 installed, it had the 2 rinses and I missed the 3rd rinse of my 18 that preceeded the 20. The 18 sits in readiness in the garage along side the Monterrey 21 with a hiccupping timer and a 22 Superba that I really picked up for parts but has the Quick Glass cycle which comes in handy now and then.
 
Throttle down!

Jon, I have often removed the flow valve in the valve itself but you do need to throttle down the water because if your water pressure is high it can really fill the machine so fast it will push a wave out the right corner or the left side if your machine has the fill gap opening right behind the top left rack track. Also, the machine will fill right up to the max amount allowed by the float switch and it will be right under the lip of the door.

If you happen to open the door and then close it and turn the machine right back on, it will probably flood out the door and on to the floor. So I usually turn it down and adjust it at one of the purge fills so that it comes up to nearly a full fill level. That way, when it fills normally, it will come up to a slightly higher level or at least to the float level and stop.

You really have to go by trial and error and see how it works for you.
The other thing is to replace the valve itself completely with another one that fills at a faster rate.
Once again, Combo52 John may be able to supply those specs from som of the many machines he works on.

I guess one other option would be if you have a spare float assembly, cut the stem just a but and it will shut off a bit sooner and then you may not have to worry about the really high fill level. Again, trial and error.
 
Filter screens

I meant to post this earlier when you showed the picture of the perforated fine mesh filter over the soil collection chamber.So many of these rot away or get ripped. Since there are fewer and fewer of the wash arm supports available anymore, if the housing is still in good condition, you can probably purchase the proper mesh from a supplier like McMaster-Carr or MSC. I know McMaster has it in different materials so a piece made of stainless steel would last forever.
If you carefully remove the frame like Ralph posted here, then fit the new mesh into place with a small overlap,you can rescrew the frame in place and it should hold the new mesh in place
The size of the mesh should be .011 as per what the Inner Circle article mentions.
I am attaching it here and hope it is legible. I scanned it as a jpoeg so who knows what it will look like. I hope this helps and recycles a few of the old but usable ones some of you may have hanging around.

stevet++3-20-2013-15-58-5.jpg
 
I really want to try that I am ASCARED!!!!

My water pressure is almost 100PSI (long story) so I would have to do a lot of trial and error. Quite honestly though I don't seem to be have having an issue with the single rinse. My dishes are clean and shiny so I wonder if I should leave well enough alone.

It used to be around 50PSI until the whole house Pressure regulator went out. The plumber didn't think I needed to put one in because the water company said it was coming into my house at 70PSI which was about right. Imagine my surprise the next morning when my sprinklers were watering my grass and half of the guys yard next door.

So I adjusted the sprinkler system and left the house at the higher pressure because it is nice to have.
 
KDS-21 KA DWs

Hi Steve, good suggestions for slightly increasing the water level in an older KA DW. To my knowledge I never saw a KD-20 DW that had the reversing motor of a KD-21-2 machine, it would take an extra relay or two to use a KDS-20 timer on a KDS-21, but I am sure that Jon can figure that out.

 

While KA 18-22 DWs were built like tanks and had great primary pumps the cycling that Hobart used never allowed these otherwise great DWs to wash even as well as several other brands [ which was really a shame ]. After having DWs that heat the water in the main wash and final rinse to a guaranteed temperature with the pump running and filtering, I would never want anything less. Whoever engineered the cycling on the 18-22 KA DWs just didn't know the best way to get dishes consistently clean, even the 18s which were the best of the lot had an inferior Soak&Scrub cycle to WPs or even D&Ms pots and pans cycles.
 

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