French cars...

[cfz2882]

Going across the pond for this car thread
here are the french machines i have examined or otherwize delt with over the years:
-Ca.1960 ID19 citroen;just as wonderfully weird and french as could be,found it in
a junk heap in 1985;wheels had a hexagonal recess in the center that fit over a
hexagonal hub-a single small bolt held the wheel on.Also had these features:
-engine mounted in "backwards",flywheel foward to the front drive tranny,"back"
of engine fit into "doghouse"that protruded back into dash area-a big pulley on
the end of the camshaft drove the WP/fan,generator,possibly the hydralic pump-
though i don't remember for sure on the hydralic pump.
radiator fan,of yellowish plastic,had a big aerodynamic hub like an airplane
prop spinner with the 8 blades molded on-probably the first aerodynamicly
designed radiator fan ever.
-inboard disc brakes,alowing the upper and lower suspension pivots to be
centered over the center of the tire tread.
-"four on the tree"(IIRC)
1969 R16 renault;1980 minnesota plates,floor pan rusted out and car literally
cracked in half..."backwards" 4 cyl.engine of aluminum was used by lotus in
one of that company's earlier cars i have heard...I have also heard ice racers
used to like the R16 because it was light,FWD,and handled well with the engine
well aft...
Ca.1969 R10 renault;tiny 4-door car with water cooled 4cyl.in back,this one had
an electric controlled automatic tranny!-i salvaged the primitive "computer"
for examination...
1984 renault fuego turbo;junkyard salvage,i took lots of parts including the
engine as i wanted to examine the turbo system in great detail-found the 1.6L
"hemi"OHV engine to be in pretty good shape with 100,000 mi.except the crank
timing sprocket was very badly worn,the cam sprocket showing very little wear
-made me wonder if the crank sprocket slipped past heat treatment and just
this one was bad or if this is a known renault problem...
Turbo system in the fuego was very advanced for the day-even had a little
fan-forced intercooler.Noticed the "zing"pipe had a major restriction
intentially cast into it-wonder how much performance would improve if the
restriction hole enlarged...
I have heard the "prv"2.85L v6 used in renault,peugot,volvo,cars and the
Delorean is a good engine,but has a strong distaste for dirty oil as there
are little nozzles that oil the cams that can plug up and wipe out the cams

 

[philr]

I am not a big french car fan but I do like the old Peugeots, mainly the 504 and 404. Those that were sold here rusted quickly and it's been years since I've seen one around! But someday, I'd like to have one.

 

Here are two 504s from the late seventies that I saw in a local junkyard about 8 years ago.

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?w=1612012@N25&m=pool&q=504

 

[lordkenmore]

I haven't had any real French car experience. I THINK I might have had a ride in a Peugeot station wagon once, but I'm not entirely sure now. It certainly was a short lived, and not memorable experience.

Years back, I knew someone whose mother bought a Peugeot 405 not long after they were released in the US. Sometimes his mother left the car with him when she'd go out of town on business trips. He really loved the car--particularly driving fast. He claimed to have hit some insane speed (I think 90 MPH) on I-5. (Back then, I think the speed limit on the part he'd have likely driven was still 55.)

The lengthiest observation of Peugeot I've had was someone I casually knew about 10 years ago. He had a Peugeot 405 as his daily driver. I asked him about the reliability--I'd heard some horror stories about Peugeot. His comment was along the lines of, "That 405 has caused me less trouble than my wife's Chevrolet mini van!"

 

[ronhic]

Well I've had more than a couple of French cars and still do have.

I learnt to drive on a 1975 Renault 12GL 1.3litre 4 speed. A fantastic car and much under rated. I thought nothing then (or now) of driving it 600 miles at a time and had 3 of them.

1975 Orange R12 GL with a 1289cc engive
1976 White R12 GL with 1289cc engive
1976 White R12 XL 1.4 with 1397cc engine

Won car of the year here in Oz in 1970. Was built in Melbourne by Renault Australia along with the Renault 16.

 

[ronhic]

...and then there was my Renault 16TS...

Fantastic car.

4 or 5 speed column shift manual with the gearbox near the grill and the engine against the firewall. Wheelbase was a different length on the left compared to the right as a result of the transverse torsion beam suspension set up...

Mine was a white 1976 16 TS - 1565 cc 4 speed with about 90hp. Would cruise all day at 120kph - 80mph.

 

[ronhic]

...and a Renault 21.

I had a 1990 2165cc 5 speed....and it put me off Renault.

Not a patch on anything they made in the early to mid 1970's, but unique in many ways as you could have it as a 1.7 transverse engined car or a 2 or 2.2 litre longditundinal car....[this post was last edited: 2/26/2012-04:58]

 

[ronhic]

I've also had 2 Citroen Xantia's.

The interior quality control was done by Mazda on there and it's very obvious if you put an early 1990's 626 next to a Xantia and compare the dashboards....

I've had a 1994 series 1 1.8 manual in the UK and a series 2, 2.0 manual here....I'd have a new one in a flash if I could get one. In the tradition of all French cars, very comfortable...but with Citroens hydropneumatic suspension and amazingly strong fully powered brakes, just a brilliant car and very under rated.

 

[ronhic]

Preceding the Xantia in design and release, if not my garage was the Citroen GS...

WOW - they went all out here. Released in 1970 with a 1.0 litre air cooled boxer engine, this was the last new aircooled engine design ever put into series production for a car. Won European car of the year ahead of the Alfasud.

Engines eventually came out to 1.3 litres and a 5 speed box was made available after 1979. Finally out of production in the late 1980's

Hydropneumatic suspension and one of the most beautiful engine sounds...mine was a 1974 model that had been widened at the rear and a later 1299cc with a 5 speed...

Listen to this turned up...turbine smooth with just a hint of boxer goodness - and nothing like a VW![this post was last edited: 2/26/2012-04:59]

 

[ronhic]

...and I've also had a CX...

Talk about space ship styling...

Engines between 2.0 and 2.5 litres with diesels also available and one of the biggest station wagons available.

Often used for camera cars....

Simplified compared to the DS to be cheaper to build, they were magnificent and fast with the 2.5 Turbo being the fastest front wheel drive car ever for a period...

Was a great car 1978, 2347 cc with a 3 speed semi automatic gear box. Manual change, no clutch but a torque converter [this post was last edited: 2/26/2012-05:00]

 

[ronhic]

And finally, we come to June.

June I have written about before, but is basically the last in a series that started in 1955 and finished production in 1975 after the CX was in full swing...

1974, DS 23 Pallas 2347 cc with electronic fuel injection by Bosch D-Jetronic designed in the late 1960's. 141hp and a top speed of 195 kph (120mph)...with turning driving lights, hyrdopneumatic suspension, 5 speed column shift and one of the most relaxed cruising gaits of any car, these can still offer a serious challange to any modern car over long distance when it comes comfort and arriving relaxed.

...and this one has some FAB bongo's in it!

 

[wayupnorth]

A cousin of mine had a Renault Dalphine many years ago. It refused to start in the winter, wouldnt get out of its own way and rusted horribly. The one strange thing I remember about it was a city/country horn. But it was so small, you could park it just about anywhere a regular car could not fit.

 

[whirlcool]

I like the looks of that Citroen Xantia very much. It still would look contemporary matched up with a current model American car.

Back in the late 60's my father had a Renault R8. Like most French cars, it was pretty strange. But with the rear mounted engine it really went in hard, winter conditions. And the seats were very comfy with lots of soft foam in them.
But alas, it didn't last too long and due to his lack of maintenance on his cars it didn't make more that 42K miles before it was shot.

The Renault Dauphne is the car that gave French cars a bad name here in the U.S. The main problem I think was that they started selling the cars before their dealer/parts network was established. Anytime something broke it was always "6 weeks to get parts from France", and your car would sit there waiting for parts.

VW took great pains to make sure this didn't happen to them and rumor has it that any dealer in the US could built a complete bug just from their own spare parts inventory. If anything broke, they had the parts onhand to fix it.

But it is fun to look at French cars and look at the different take the French have on automobiles.

 

[cfz2882]

dauphine was about the first renault sold in the U.S.after WW2 -kind of a french
"beetle"LOL.I think i heard somewhere the dauphine had dangerous handling
characteristics-good thing it didn't have a lot of power if that is true.
It was around 1988 the last renault branded cars were sold in the U.S.,puegeot
quit the U.S. around 1991

 

[foraloysius]

We need a picture of a Renault Dauphine! Here's one.

 

[foraloysius]

The GS wasn't preceding the Xantia. Between those was the Citroën BX, in the Netherlands a very popular model. This is a 1993 1.4 Deauville.

 

[firedome]

Pug diesel wagon

we had a 504 back in the 80s, slow but held a lot of stuff and had such a great ride!

 

[ronhic]

Yes Louis...

I know that the BX was in between the the GS and the Xantia, but these were cars that I have owned. A BX is something I'll get around to having one day if I can find one that hasn't been too sun affected....

 

[foraloysius]

Ah, I see. I think the older models were more affected by the sun than the later ones. The one in the picture is a later one that is very well conserved.

 

[ronhic]

The BX dashboard and many of the lighter weight under bonnet items get fragile in hade sun...and we've certainly got that here...

 

[whirlcool]

I always thought of the Dauphine as a cute car. It actually looks quite nice in a French sort of way... They were fairly common in big US cities in the late 50's.
I seem to remember that their engines had a particular kind of sound to them.

 

[cfz2882]

French shift handle

i remember watching some old movie that had french cars and one of the cars had a
shifter like an umbrella handle that stuck out horizontally from the center of the
dash and gears were selected by moving the handle rod in or out and twisting to
the left or right...Must have been a traction advant citroen or other front drive
with the tranny ahead of the engine.

 

[wayupnorth]

Worst Renault

had to be the Le Car. People I knew bought them because they were very inexpensive but soon found out their reliability was horrible. one told me that a Yugo was more reliable than the Le Car they had. The local Renault dealer went out of business because of the Le Car, he said.

 

[cuffs054]

My Bro started his Dauphine by putting a beer can over the carb. Worked great in the winter. Does no else have a "Duck"?

 

[d-jones]

Don't forget about Simca!

Imported to the U.S. in the early to mid 1960's, it's one of the better looking French compacts, some would even say cute. This one's been hiding out in my dad's back yard since 1973.

 

[wayupnorth]

Simca

Were they sold at Chrysler dealers?

 

[d-jones]

Yes they were. If I recall correctly, Chrysler had some financial interest in Simca during the 1960's and briefly imported their cars. If you look closely at the photo you can see the Chrysler pentastar logo on the lower portion of the right fender just aft of the wheel well.

 

[vacbear58]

Chrysler and Simca

One car that I personally think is often overlooked is the (European) Chrysler 180, which was essentially a Simca

The whole Rootes/Simca situation is better described on the link than I can - eventually the whole lot was sold to Peugeot

Al

http://www.rootes-chrysler.co.uk/

 

[ronhic]

I do find it interesting reading people's thoughts on cars.....especially when they are so very different to what might be considered the norm in their market.

Australia was a little different compared to the US and Europe post WW2. The US wasn't in tatters like Europe or broke like the UK, but we certainly were a little bruised.

Europe needed cars that were small and economical - resources were both scarce and expensive as was fuel....rationed! The UK didn't stop rationing completely until the early 1950s.

Cars were also luxury items rather than almost part of the every day compared to the US. Small was still expensive and most manufacturers were very nationalistic - Italian cars for Italian people, French for French etc.

Australia, started to take large numbers of skilled economic migrants from Europe in the late 1940s - surveyors, engineers etc. We were about to embark on the biggest civil engineering feats our country had seen - the Snowy Mountains Scheme.....

Australia's automotive industry was dominated by the British, American designed and often Canadian built Fords and the newly announced Holden from GM...all 2.2 liters of it. The French in particular, have sold in Australia since WW1....French roads and Australian roads were rather similar - poor, which tended to make their cars suitable.

However, Australia also had import tariffs which were variable dependent on how much of a far was sourced locally...assemble locally and source your parts here and your cars were cheaper than if they were fully imported....

So they did.

BMC, Ford, Renault, Triumph, Vauxhall (Holden), VW, Chrysler, Citroën, Toyota, Datsun and Peugeot all either fully manufactured or assembled in Australia...making their cars more affordable. So the cars that many of you may consider as 'funny small foreign cars', were common place here as a result of them manufacturing locally. Renault even won our first 'Car of the Year' poll in the early 1960's...

 

[ronhic]

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that different firms in different country's try to find ways to resolve issues - traction, economy, reliability, comfort.

Look at the variety the world offered in the mid 1960's and see what we've lost...

Air cooled
Water cooled
Rear engine
Front engine
Transverse front engine
Longditudinal front engine
Reverse longitudinal front engine (gearbox at radiator)
Boxer engines
Semi automatic gearboxes (now coming back)
Column shift

The list goes on....

....but those funny little cars that many, in the US in particular, didnt understand were very popular in other country's around the world, including in Oz, helping to motorise millions who may have aspired to 'big', but were happy to just 'have'.....

Variety is the spice of life....and Europe, France and Italy in particular, have delivered it it bucket loads.