Frigidaire Flair Electric Range 1961? 1962?

[artistathand]

Hi,
I am new here.
I am so happy to have found this site.
I see this is full of info on Frigidaire Flair Ranges, one of which I own and am trying to maintain after just finding out parts are not made anymore!
Grumble grumble

I inherited my beauty in 2007.
I searched here for info and thought I owned a 1961 model but after some discussion, a member say's it is a 1962.
The model number is RCDB 640-1

I need to replace the small front burner. I had replaced one in the back with out incident in 2007.
No problems...just put it in.
I have since been warned that there is something that could make surface coils blow.
Does anyone understand what that might be?
Is it connected to the speed heat?
Does mine have speed heat?
Are there things that should be tested before I spend at least $100.00 on a new burner?
I have found a new one if someone doesn't buy it before I can figure this all out.

I downloaded some schematics from a 1960 manual.
That is another thing....I imagine all the parts are specific to each year stove?
I would deeply appreciate ANY help.
Thank you Thank you thank you
Susan

 

[tomturbomatic]

Your control panel is not labeled with Speed Heat beside the control for the left front element nor, for that matter, does the element support  under either 6 inch element have the little polished aluminum ring around the hole in the center denoting the Speed Heat element. Unless the element turns red hot in 60 seconds, it is not a Speed Heat. Your range is the Custom Deluxe model, not the Custom Imperial so it does not have the potentially troublesome features like the Speed Heat or Heat Minder units. There is nothing about your elements or controls that should cause them to fail early.  You can have the front of the hood repainted and it will look as spiffy as the rest of the range. Be very careful of using any kind of abrasives when cleaning. Every surface on the range will show scratches, even the glass oven doors. Also, be careful not to get any acidic substances on the surfaces. Some of the brushed metal might be stainless steel, but other parts, like the cover that conceals the cooktop when it in pushed in, are chrome plated steel. Acid will eat through the chrome plating and expose the brass plating underneath.

 

[artistathand]

Frigidaire Flair Electric Range

I am over the moon that I don't have this troublesome speed heat or the heat minder unit (what ever that is)

So the stove would indicate if it has speed heat on the face near the control.
This aluminum thing you talk about on the burner is not removable is it?

I had someone comment on how fast I was able to boil water, of course that depends on how much water you are boiling but that put fear in me that I may have this speed heat going on.
I am sighing in relief.

This particular burner was constantly used by my grandmother so I think with the age of the stove and the over use, it finally gave up.

Thank you for letting me know about the surface, as you can see there is a stain of some sort on the cover face that was probably the result of a chemical cleaner. I think that is what happened to the hood.
I want to refinish it at some point if I can keep the old girl alive.
I pray the ovens will keep going too.

Everything works except the timer.
Well...we have never tested the time cooker.
I think that part scared my mother a little bit.
The oven turns itself on? Yikes!

These units were way ahead of their time, for sure.

Thanks you SO much for the help!

THANK YOU FOR SHARING ALL YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE.
This means so much.

Susan

 

[philr]

Susan, Just like Tom said, the Custom Imperial is the model that potentially had the Speed Heat burner, and when it did, it was labeled on the control panel (those like my Canadian Custom Imperials didn't have the Speed Heat).

Your model is a 1961 model as you expected, I have an earlier model that was made in late-1961 when most of the 1962 Frigidaire models were already introduced so I guess yours could also be from that period. The Tech Talk manual that covers this model was published in April of 1961 (volume XII, no.8), just a few months before most 1962 models were introduced. There are probably date codes on many things like the burner switches but there could be dates stamped near the bake element connectors which are easier to see.

This model still had the GE/Telechron timer, some places fix them. The 1962 models switched to the International Register timers.

Your non-working burner could have a few causes, the burner itself could be bad but the problem could be the wiring, the infinite switch or the drawer safety switch as well.

That safety switches disables the burners by pairs when the drawer is half-closed (so the rear burners can't be turned on while partially covered by the cover) or completely closed (all 4 burners shouldn't work). These safety switches have contacts for each burner so even if the one on the right still works, that doesn't mean the switch is fine.

Here are Custom Imperial from the same period and that show "infinite heat" left front burner controls, they don't have a Speed Heat either.




But the US-made Custom Imperials do.

 

[panthera]

Hi and Welcome!

We have a '1961' Flair which has many systems which depart from both the 1961 and 1962 technical descriptions in the repair manuals.

It's either one of the very first or has had much service in its long (and wonderful) life.

So - for what it's worth, a few suggestions more:

1) Remember to always pull the plug before working on your Flair. A lot of controls only turn off one side of the 240 line on these ranges - leaving components very much 'live' and waiting to bite or damage some extremely-hard-to-replace part.

2) Be thankful you don't have the speed-heat system. It's a great idea on paper. Not so hot (couldn't resist) in real life. Or, too hot. Either way.

3) You've already gotten a list of what could be wrong. Generally speaking, the hidden weak point in the pull-out drawer system is at the Molex connectors at the very back. It's not uncommon for wires to still be attached by the insulation whilst the wire inside has broken off. I'd check there before I went after any of the other problems.

4) Since you don't have the speed-heat system, you can always swap the various parts against each other until you find what's gone wrong.

 

A fifth and much overlooked note - the range top is NOT stainless steel, it's nickel (some say chrome, my chemistry set says otherwise on ours) plated steel and is easily destroyed by scrubbing with anything you wouldn't use on a glass-ceramic top modern range. Be especially careful not to leave acidic foods on the top.

 

Keep us up to date and ask questions - I ask the most unusual questions here and am always helped. If only to get me to be quiet....

 

[artistathand]

Frigidaire Flair Electric Range 1961? 1962?

Again, I am so glad to have found this site and all you wonderful people.
I love seeing the photos.
Thank you for showing me the speed heat indication on these.
I AM glad I don't have the speed heat as I DO see, it isn't too hot.....teeheeee.

So.... the "infinite heat" indication is just something marketing wanted to print on the stove to sound marvelous?

I understand the tray workings in that, there is a safety switch with closing and you don't have to open the drawer all the way but it is a very good thing to talk about ALL of the little intricate elements of these stoves.
Thank you.
Now that I say that, I didn't think about an issue of a safety switch not allowing the burner to work regardless of having the stove open or not.

But I haven't closed my stove since 2007, I figured the less wear, the better.
Though that is an OOOOHHHHH highlight of showing the stove off.

Maybe somebody can clarify this but I was thinking it rolled the electric connection when the drawer is opened and closed? If it doesn't wear anything but the drawer, I might start closing it again.....but there is this new found issue with those safety switches...hmmm.

OK The Burner.
I bought a new one on eBay. Yes brand spankin new. We received it Nov 9 and we were able to install it late last night. It doesn't lay flat like it should in the opening....not bad but not flat AND it doesn't seem to be heating like it should.
It DOES HEAT so the wiring seems like it is fine. The middle section shows red ( if the lights are out.)
Once during a trial the whole burner acted like it was going to glow red but ( with the lights out ) but didn't quite make it.
There may be something in the switch that doesn't want to stay connected?
The contact or points? Whatever the proper lingo would be.
I am thinking along this line because of the variance in the burner going red, is there a cycling going on in there that is defective?

What do you all think?

We had the old burner tested at the hardware store where they originally said, they could find us a new one and the old one was declared dead.

We haven't explored the reason this new burner isn't heating enough and I haven't gotten back to the fellow that seems very intent on selling good stuff.

We haven't had this burner on a meter or anything. The burners don't have break-in periods do they?
The big one we replaced in 2007 when parts were still available from the company worked fine right away.

We were thinking of hooking up this new burner in the back where we know everything is working fine.

If the new burner heats well in the back, it is something in the stove. SIGH~~
If not I will get back with my seller.

Thank you again for all the tech talk and again anything new, anyone can add about the burner situation is greatly appreciated!

OH....more info in case someone out there reading has a stove that won't respond at ALL.

Before I had this beauty as mine, in my younger days, I ran into someone that had a similar stove that came with HIS house.

I told him how wonderful they were. He said, he was going to get rid of it because he couldn't get anything to work on it.
I grew up with this kind of stove, so after looking at the control face, I told him the setting on the time cook was not on manual.
After changing that to manual he was a happy camper.
It is nice to have manuals.

Sincerely,
Susan

 

[artistathand]

Frigidaire Flair Electric Range 1961? 1962?

I forgot all about the info on cleaning the cook top.
Thank you for that too!

Yeah, this one has scratches and I am sure it had abrasives used on it.
I have used Bonami before to clean it up but usually use soap and water or windex.

Windex ok? I sometimes end the cleaning with just water and wipe it dry.

I too thought the surface was stainless steel till I had a small magnet drop on it from the refrigerator.
I said, HEY, this ain't no stainless steel!
You also need to be careful if you wipe up as you cook, OH BOY does that surface get HOT!

Sincerely,
Susan

 

[panthera]

Windex is fine.

My grandparents' maid used windex and elbow grease to clean their Flair and it looked great when it was replaced (stupidly) in 2001.

If that burner is not heating red all the way through, it could be a problem but I'd try something else first before you move it.

Put a really thin aluminium or stainless steel (thin, thin, thin) flat bottomed pan on it. Fill it with a few inches of water. Turn the burner to high and watch which areas bubble compared to a burner known to work well.

If it does heat evenly, then don't worry about it. If not, then it's time to see if something isn't wrong, somewhere. A funny failure, though. Never seen one like it before.

 

[artistathand]

Frigidaire Flair Electric Range 1961? 1962?

It is a late night check on the link and I appreciate the idea.

I wanted to mess with this burner today but we were too busy.
I am glad I didn't because I will do as you suggest.
I need to try something tomorrow.
I have a thin aluminum pan that will work.

Yeah, it is weird....
When we first put it in, we only tested to see if heat was coming from it and it was.
The thing doesn't lie flat either.
Everything is attached correctly but we thought that maybe with time it will level out.

Then later, I tried to boil water with it and it just doesn't heat up much. It appeared to heat only within the middle arc of the coil.
I turned it off after seeing how sluggish it was attempting to heat up.
I didn't want to harm anything by leaving it on high while it didn't appear to get any hotter.
Again, it heats up, just not as hot as the others.

When my husband came home, I turned it on to show him the problem and that is when it turned red throughout the whole coil like the heat was traveling around the way it should....of course you can only see this red when the lights are out.

I was wondering maybe the reason this burner was still new, was that it had an issue.
Maybe it was a return at one time?

Nothing against the seller but just something that time has forgotten.

Another thing we could try is we didn't use the new wires that came with it.
We just hooked it up to the old ones.

On to testing.
Thank you,
Susan

 

[philr]

It's normal for the part that contacts the pan to stay dark while the part that doesn't gets bright. If you turn the burner on with nothing on it, it should glow red uniformly. Don't expect these burners to be very fast, they have a large mass and they take a while to heat up and cool down. This slower response, and the way they can warp and not contact the pans evenly are reasons why some people don't like them or don't get used to them. If it's seriously warped or if the star-shaped support under it is damaged (could also be warped or rusted) you might want to replace them. I rarely use burners on the HIGH setting for a long time, I don't use my range to boil water and I don't like frying stuff or anything that splashes so I'm not bothered by these characteristics of my burners. Those on the range that I use daily aren't warped and they work fine for me but I'm sure that others used to something else would complain!

 

[panthera]

Another thought -

Do you have a volt-ohm-meter? Digital or analog? You can pick one up that's good enough for this purpose at Harbor Freight for less than $10 if you don't.

1) With one wire disconnected from the burner, measure the resistance across the two terminals. You should get something within plus or minus five of about 45 ohms.

2) Check if there's anything but infinite resistance between the surface of the burner and either terminal.* If there's anything but infinite resistance, the burner is bad and must be thrown away.

3) I keep assuming this is a two contact Frigidaire original part - would you mind posting a picture? We may all have made a simple mistake.

 

Best of luck - you're going down the right paths.

 

 

 

*Technically versed, I'm trying to keep this simple, so don't lecture, OK? KISS is a good principle for troubleshooting.

 

[combo52]

Electric Surface Elements

There is nothing wrong with your new 6" element.

 

When you use an element on high NONE of it should be red hot if you have a proper pan on it, so the first thing to check is the pan perfectly flat. If it is, it is possible the the element is bent a little, on FDEs you can bend the center up or down slightly to make them flat, try checking for flatness with a ruler etc.

 

If the entire element is tilted it probably is not installed properly in it mounting bracket.

 

[artistathand]

Frigidaire Flair Electric Range 1961? 1962?

The case of the lukewarm burner -

I tried the tests...well my husband tried the tests that you talked about and I think a few more.
Our original bad coil, was really dead.

We tested the new one that doesn't heat right and everything seemed to test fine...CRAZY.

We decided to do the swap.
We took the small one already fine and working on the stove, from the back and put it in the front where the new one wasn't working.
The new one went in the back where there was no question if there was a bad wire or switch...etc....I should have stopped with "the swap"......sorry, you know what I mean.

LOW and BEHOLD the new burner acted the same in the new spot in the back and wouldn't heat all the way.

The front switch and old back coil acted just fine in the front questionable spot.
So... it all points to the new burner.
It has something going on.
He had original instructions in the box from Frigidaire but it wasn't in a brand box. Maybe it just doesn't fit this model or maybe it is just bad.

I will show you the photos of the ends and the poor settling of the burner.

The fellow was oh so kind and apologized.
I am going to send it back to him for my refund.

He said, that was the only new one he had left but he has many used ones.

I am opening another question....
Has anyone ever bought a used burner and had success with it lasting ?

I was thrilled to find a new one since the part was so pricey.
I was afraid to buy a used one and then have it burn out in a short time.
You don't know what a used one has gone through but..... the new one didn't work did it?

I guess that is what we all deal with now, right?

Photos
When the burner didn't set right, I thought it was because the tab that holds the bracket allowing you to raise the burner was spaced differently.
You can see which is the new one that didn't work, it is much cleaner.

The one that was in the back must be an original because it had a plug in system on the end and the dark plastic part was much shorter than even the one of ours that went bad.
It seems we have 2 original burners..

Thank you for ALL this help again.
I can't stop saying how appreciative I am.

Sincerely, Susan

 

[philr]

Is the mounting bracket for the burner hinge still solidly welded to the range top? On most Frigidaire ranges and cooktops, they were attached with screws but on Flairs, they were spot welded. One of my Flairs had a missing Radiantube 8" burner that had been replaced by Chromalox burner. The mounting bracket had been removed so I had to weld another one to it and I then installed a used burner of the correct type. It worked fine ever since. If the bracket is not holding the burner properly, I suggest drilling where the spot welds were and use some screws to hold it correctly instead of welding it like I did.

Is the burner support in good shape?

 

[artistathand]

Frigidaire Flair Electric Range 1961? 1962?

On my Flair they are all attached with screws. When we did the swap out that I mentioned above, testing burners, the new burner sat cockeyed in the other back opening as well.

As far as I can tell, all the burner supports are in good shape.

I guess I am looking at a used burner coil.
Since this other one didn't work and is going back.

It must not have fit this model?
Susan

 

[panthera]

Regarding 'used' burners

Generally speaking, burners are very reliable. I'd not worry too overmuch. Hmm, silly question, but we're trying to learn from you - the more we all know about these ranges, the better - are working with 240V or 208v?

Anyway, as long as the burner isn't run without load for any length of time, they rarely fail. Except for the Westinghouse 'Corox' burners. We've had two fail in only 63 years.

 

[artistathand]

Frigidaire Flair Electric Range 1961? 1962?

To buy or not to buy....
Bad burner, Better burner

240V
I am sorry that I didn't show the end of those elements in the photos very well.
After I posted the pictures, I see the ends were not showing enough.

Thank you, I guess I am helping too because that WAS crazy about the burner panning out good on a meter and not in the stove!

This seller has been great and he just told me that the new burner was tested that way, meter only.
The used ones, of course come right from the stoves.

Good to hear they can last a while. I feel better buying used even though that is the only option.

I am looking at buying a used one from the same fellow.
I hope it sets well in the stove.

I need a little study time to figure out which one I want.

It seems matching part numbers means nothing.
I can't remember the exact words he used but when I was trying to match parts numbers with this first burner, he said something like, if I had 2 wires coming out of the end it would work.
There were so many parts numbers.

After seeing I still have 2 original coils and 2 replacement coils on mine, I can understand that.

The replacement coils that I know came from Frigidaire had different "looks" at the plug, still 2 wires but probably had different numbers simply because they were bought at a much later date.
( though I didn't check that when we had the other one out of the stove. )

Even if it doesn't matter I still like that the used burner I am eyeing has all the same numbers as my old one, only the first three are different.

I would like to understand what you mean by "run without a load"

Sincerely,
Susan

 

[panthera]

Run without a load or run dry

Simply means the burner has no pan or pot on it. If you do this too long, it will destroy the burner. That's a tremendous amount of power to not dissipate.

Keeping my fingers crossed! 

 

[artistathand]

Frigidaire Flair Electric Range 1961? 1962?

Burner...
OHHHHhhh Got it!

I am still looking at 2 used burners and trying to decide which one to buy.
I can't make up my mind.
They are seemingly the same...sheesh, they probably ARE the same.

I don't want another one that fits or sits cockeyed.

I think I am tired.

Fiddle Dee Dee, I will choose tomorrow.

Keep those fingers crossed haha thanks!