Frigidaire Immersion Care 4044M: CR Test Results

[frigilux]

Well, that didn't take long!  The Immersion Care washer has been tested, and while it didn't come in at the very bottom of the list, it only managed a total score of 41---which is one point higher than the tested Speed Queen model.

 

Washing Performance:  Excellent (not surprised)

Energy Efficiency:  Fair (pokey spin speed)

Water Efficiency:  Very Good (using Auto water level)

Capacity:  Good

Gentleness:  Fair (also not surprised)

Noise:  Very Good

Vibration:  Excellent

 

I'd be willing to bet the farm that the gentleness score improves a bit when you choose the water level manually.  Regardless, it is noticeably tougher on fabrics than my Frigidaire front-loader (which deservedly gets an Excellent rating, even with an 80-minute normal cycle on the new model).

 

Highest/Lowest Scoring Top-Loaders: 

>Samsung WA422PRHD (impeller)-- 82

>Whirlpool 4950X (impeller)-- 32

 

 

[tomturbomatic]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I just pray that my appliances outlive me and that the body goes before the brain.

 

[mickeyd]

Eugene and Immersion-Friendly People

I had news from a few weeks ago, and this is a good chance to share it. Was actuallly going to open a thread, but now I don't have to.

Best Buy, Sears, Lowes, and Home Depot did not have the Immersion, but our big independent store, "Orville's," where most of us here in greater Buffalo buy our appliances, did.

On a had-to-take call on my way into the store, I politely walked along the back aisle, stopping at the MOL Immersion where a bright seasoned salesman met me. This model has no jets, and rotary controls for water temp and level.

Why is the price so low? *

We bought a large lot of them.

But they're brand new. Why would you buy so many?

We do a lot of research here, and we liked what this machine had to offer.This machine is all USA made, and in the original Frigidaire factories. It lets the user control the water level if desired, and it will fill up unlike all others like it.Not enough water is the constant complaint we get.

Have you had any complaints about this machine?

No, we haven't had any; the feedback's all been good.

Do you have the TOL model.

What is TOL?

Top of the line.

Sure, right up in the front. (So there we went, and Eugene, your machine is striking and it's HUGE. Bet you could handily, if not easily, launder John's load of eight grimy pairs of dungarees.) The big glass top, the lights, so many options and selections to press--Tons O' Buttons, and the blue tipped jets. Wonderful and Lovely.

How are they selling?

Steady, more of the TOL than the economy model. (He learned without missing a beat).

Do you have the machine that shoots the water out over the top?

The Wave Force by LG, but those were all recalled six months ago.

He took me to LG WF, and Good Lord, when he opened the lid, I nearly gasped. Imagine one of our classic machines with the inner tub removed. Preoccupied you open the lid, forgetting you've taken the tub out. You look in YEOWSUH! That's how big this sucker is--a Unimatic cavern! Imagine what you could wash, if these beasts filled up with water the way the Immersion does.

All made in Korea, he said of the LG.

On the way out I was struck by the beauty of the GE Adora--absolutely gorgeous in its elegant controls, chrome trim, and a shade that looks like a blend of coppertone and pewter.

Thanks, I never would have had this experience without your motivation.

Would you comment on the Gentleness being only fair. I had previously concluded the the machine was gentle.

* TOL ~ $497

M or BOL (since there are only two models--just like in the early Frigidaire years) ~ $447

 

[mickeyd]

Clarification

The new TL LG's whirl water around the tub like the Frigidaire, but not over the top in a dramatic, unique flash flood. Wondered if any one in the club has the former Wave Force, and if you're just crazy about it.

Thanks to Frigilux, I am considering buying an Immersion, hopelessly hooked on its rinse technology.

 

[frigilux]

mickeyd-- Two models of the Immersion Care are shown at Frigidaire's website: The higher-end 4044 (not pictured below), and the basic 1011 (which doesn't allow manual water level selection or a deep rinse, and doesn't have the "waterfall wash" jets). However, the owner's manual for the 1011 shows three consoles with differing features, which leads me to believe more models will be rolled-out shortly. Model 1011 is shown at the top of this photo. You'll notice the console at the bottom has a manual-select water level, so that must be forthcoming at some point--or maybe it's being sold exclusively at certain retailers.

 

Spray rinse: While it works well, it's not exactly fun to watch, LOL. After you've seen it once or twice, the thrill-of-the-new quickly wears off. I'm guessing most other impeller-based machines have a similar rinsing process.

 

Capacity:  I agree with CR in rating the capacity of this machine as only 'Good'.  There's no way this machine will accept John's test load of eight pairs of adult-size jeans.  I was able to stuff six pairs of jeans into it, but I'd opt for only four or five if they were heavily soiled.

 

Gentleness: I've noticed there's more lint on the dryer's filter screen from loads washed in the Immersion Care. I've also noticed a few "pulled loops" on my aging bath towels that definitely happened in the Immersion Care. If you select the water level manually, you can provide a better cushion of water, and the load will also shift positions more efficiently. At any rate, it's definitely more aggressive with fabrics than the front-loader.

 

Criticism: I never take criticisms of my appliances personally. After all, I was the first person to say, "I wouldn't have an impeller-based top-loader in my house if you gave it to me free of charge!" The Immersion Care has shown me these machines can get the job done, but I still think the gold-standard for modern laundry is a front-loader with an internal heater. So don't worry:  If someone is of the opinion "You can take that plastic piece of crap and stick it where the sun don't shine!" it doesn't bother me a bit. 

 

You'd probably have fun watching one work---they're so different compared to the traditional top-loaders we're used to---but I doubt it will ever be your favorite machine.

[this post was last edited: 2/1/2013-10:47]

 

[mickeyd]

Friday Mirth

I'm just a peanut at 5 foot 6, and my legs are short. In fact, as a kid back in the day, chinos came in "Husky" featuring shorter pant legs at 28, 29 inches or less. That's what I bought. I loved not having to have my pants "altered," and falling into a tickle fit of laughter after the tailor's ministrations.

John, whom I've had the pleasure of meeting, is what we used to called "a tall drink of water." His pant legs are probably 40 inches or more.

Maybe you're a tall drink too, but I'll bet you a dollar I could fit 8 of my "Huskies" into your Grand Immerser. LOL

Your strength of character is so cool to watch.

 

[frigilux]

One correction: Immersion Care washers aren't made in the US. The sticker with the serial number on it, visible when the lid is up, says Made In Mexico. I just noticed it a few minutes ago. That's too bad, because it would have been a nice selling point. Oh, well. [this post was last edited: 2/5/2013-17:06]

 

[golittlesport]

Scored better than I thought it would

Although I found it very interesting, I'm surprised it got "excellent" in washing performance without much turnover taking place. A new way to wash?

 

[frigilux]

Rich-- I've had the Immersion Care washer for about 5 weeks, and it has almost become my daily driver. Cleaning performance has been much better than expected. The only loads I always wash in the front-loader are highly-stained kitchen whites, and frankly, if the IC could fill with truly hot water it would probably do a better job on grease-based stains.

Here's my question: The CR test claimed a cycle time of 110 minutes. The longest cycle I've been able to find is the Normal cycle using the highest soil level option (called Stain Treat) clocking in at around 95 minutes. If you choose Stain Treat plus the Fabric Softener option (triggering a deep rinse) it clocks in at 101 minutes. However, I don't think CR uses any options. My machine was manufactured several months ago, and maybe Frigidaire has already increased the cycle time. I should call Frigidaire and ask if that's the case. The default Normal cycle time on my machine is 58 minutes (add about 5 minutes for actual time).

CR's 110-minute claim (115-minutes for the BOL Immersion Care!) would also explain the low score for gentleness.

[this post was last edited: 2/15/2013-06:50]

 

[retropia]

If your Immersion Care washer proves to be reliable, then it will be a safe recommendation to those who prefer a top-loader. I'm impressed that you find it to be good at cleaning.

 

[combo52]

Frigidaire Immersion-Care Stack Test Results

As I mentioned in an earlier thread that Eugene did we picked up the more deluxe SRP $1400 FD Electric stack version of this machine at our Frigidaire distributor that was scraped because of two early break downs. The machine we have was built in the fall of 2012. The dryer drum rear bearing screws fell out allowing the drum to drop down and short out the dryer heater element. And the washer quit agitating.

 

The dryer was not hard to fix I just replaced the shorted- broken element and the dryer now works. This is pretty much the same dryer that they have built for over 20 years and it is still one of the worst dryers built in the last 20 years, LOL. The lint filter is too small, the dryer is noisy and slow [ only a 4,500 watt heater ] and these still have rear bearing durability issues, but on to the washer.

 

The washer had a bad inverter board, it would move the wash tub about twice in one direction and then that was it for the washer. We replaced the IB and it now functions as it should. I put 5 pairs of dirty work jeans in and used the hot water setting, Heavy duty wash and opted for the fabric softener selection and added FS to the dispenser.

 

Now the results,,, The only truly good thing about this washer is the fabric softener dispenser, it is very thoroughly flushed it will probably never clog. The washer tub filled up more than 1/2 way with water that was actually warm about 105 degrees and it washed for a good long time and actually almost turned the load over and the water looked pretty dirty. The machine barely did any spinning after the wash water drained and it then did a deep rinse at about the same level as the wash. The spinning is worse than the older transmission models at only about 600 RPMs. After the jeans were removed and spread out you could clearly see they were mostly clean, but they had large dirty patches on the fronts of the legs, I threw them into the SQ FL and ran them through a full cycle, and it was amazing how lighter they were after the spin in the SQ FLer, I should have weighted them. Jason and I did several more loads in the FDIC washer after this load.

 

Final recommendation, THIS IS PROBABLY THE WORST PERFORMING FULL SIZED WASHER BUILT IN THE LAST 30 YEARS, OR MAYBE EVER, LOL, I anyone can come up with a worst washer I would be interested to hear about it, this could truly be the Yugo of washing machines.

 

[frigilux]

I washed a load of four large pairs of jeans last week--two of which were very lightly soiled and two heavily soiled from kneeling/sitting in dirt while installing window well covers on two separate occasions--and had excellent results. This is probably why:

1) The stacked washers don't have a soil level selector. I used the Normal cycle, Stain Treat soil option due to the dried-in dirt/mud, and the default spray rinses. The cycle time was 89 minutes. I used powdered Tide w/ Bleach and the (bogus) hot water setting. The Heavy Duty cycle on my washer defaults at 52 minutes for Normal soil, 58 for Heavy soil, and 65 for Stain Treat. Were I trying to wash 5 pairs of very soiled jeans, I wouldn't select a cycle of 52 or 58 minutes. Unfortunately, you are not given the choice with the stacked washer.

2) The upper-end stacked washer doesn't allow for manual water selection. I'd be willing to bet the farm it filled only to the Normal water level (between the 4th and 5th row down from the top row of holes) for your load. The only time my washer has auto-selected the Maximum water level is when I tried to wash a comforter. Even full capacity loads of towels auto-selects to the Normal water level. This is why I almost always manually select the water level.

My experience with the Immersion Care is with the TOL model, which offers what I consider important options--even more so now, in light of the poor washing results you experienced. Frankly, I use only two cycles with the washer: the Normal cycle (offering cycle times from ranging 37-89 minutes) or Delicates, depending on the load. Frigidaire has a history of offering too-short default cycle times with their front-loaders, and it appears they've repeated their mistake with the other versions of the IC.

My main complaint with the IC is the complete lack of anything approaching hot water. Mine delivers 115 degree water consistently if the Normal or Max water levels are selected. If the Minimum level is selected (which is also where it lands for all but full-capacity loads on Auto-select) it is only 105 degrees, since the initial fill to dissolve and distribute detergent always uses tap-cold water.

Did any of the loads you washed in the IC come fully clean, or were the results all poor, as with your jeans load?

This goes to show why we see such disparity in user reviews for washers. My version of the IC has practically become my daily driver, and your results with the stacked model were dismal! Both machines (I'm assuming) are mechanically identical under the hood.

[this post was last edited: 2/17/2013-16:21]

 

[frigilux]

Here is a shot of the consoles for the two models of washer/dryer laundry centers. (And John is right, the dryer is the old 5.5 cubic foot with a lint filter the size of a piece of toast. Lived with those for 15 years prior to the 2010 launch of the 7.0 cu. ft. models.)

You'll notice the lower-end model has a manual-select water level. But what's this? No Energy Star icon! I'll bet that means it uses a traditional deep rinse. The higher end machine offers only auto-select water level (plus the choice of spray or traditional rinses) and it qualifies for an Energy Star.

 

[combo52]

Frigidaire Immersion-Care Stack Test Results

Well I have washed about 6 loads in the deluxe stack now and cannot imagine washing more than a few more before I get rid of this machine. Between the nearly nonexistent turn over and uneven cleaning, terrible rinsing and a final spin speed [ are you sitting down ] of 600 RPMs it is not much of a washer. The machine even on the HD cycle does not even spin at 100 RPMs after the wash and before the rinse.

 

Below is a picture of a towel that was washed with a load of cleaning cloths from the warehouse. The towel was freshly soiled by wiping up spilled water on the dirty warehouse floor and was part of a load of about twenty five dirty clothes [ other than this towel the other clothes were only about 12" square and also dirty. Most of the load came out acceptably clean, but as I predicted by the design of this washer and by previous testing with dirty jeans this washer is not going to be capable of washing regular sized loads if their are any larger items that are actually dirty.

 

[joelippard]

John, run that towel through one of your "Real Frigidaire's" and let's see what it looks like then.

 

[combo52]

Frigidaire Immersion-Care Stack Test Results

As I have said many times it is possible to get clean clothing or even clean dishes out of almost washer or DW if you work with the limitations of the machine and I am sure that many people will be happy with this new Frigidaire washer if they either learn to work with it or just don't care about clean well rinsed clothing, LOL.

 

When I worked for Maytag in the 1970s we had dozens and dozens of complaints about the performance of the new MT center dial washers we were selling. Customers that were STEPPING UP TO MAYTAG were often disappointed with their EXPENSIVE new washers, but most learned to put in smaller loads, use more detergent, do extra rinses and just get used to the poorer performance. The thing I do find very telling about MT HD washers is over the last 30 years of fixing and selling washers I have only had about 2 customers that wanted another MT HD DC washer when the first MT wore out they were usually all to ready to switch to something that might work better and I don't ever remember any customer that wished that they had their MT back, and I can't say that about a lot of appliances that we have replaced over the years.

 

[combo52]

Frigidaire Immersion-Care Stack Test Results

Hi Joe, I put the whole load in my SQ FL washer [ I have an 8 year old small door quick cycle model ] and ran it through the normal 30 minute cycle [ hot wash, two rinse cycle ] and it was completely clean afterwards. I should add that in the original tests with the FICW I used lots of good phosphated powered detergent almost one cup of it and ran an extra deep rinse cycle. I am sure that if you washed just a few towels by them selves they would have been much cleaner, but that seems silly with a new washer especially when you see how water this POS uses, it is a lot for what it does, three tubs over 2/3 full probably almost 50 gallons for the wash and two deep rinses.

 

[frigilux]

John---Have you used any the higher-rated impeller machines (LG, Samsung, Maytag)? I wonder if they do a better job than the Immersion Care? Had I washed the load of cleaning cloths/towels in my IC, I'd have chosen the Normal cycle with the Stain Treat option and the results would have been substantially better.

I don't know the cycle times on your washer, but I never use the Heavy Duty cycle because it is actually shorter than the normal cycle, which makes no sense, but that's Frigidare for you.

Normal (at default) 58 minutes
Heavy Duty (at default) 53 minutes
Normal (at Heavy Soil) 71 minutes
Heavy Duty (at Heavy Soil) 58 minutes
Normal (at Stain Treat) 89 minutes
Heavy Duty (at Stain Treat) 63 minutes

Why would anyone label a cycle Heavy Duty, then make it less vigorous than the Normal cycle?!

I just don't understand why there is no soil level selector to lengthen the cycle for really tough loads on all versions of these machines. While I've had good luck with even heavily soiled loads, there's no arguing the fact that your version of the washer delivers consistently poor results with challenging loads. The lack of anything hotter than lukewarm water really cripples them, as well.

Frigidaire/Electrolux has produced a really fine front-loader with their new design (especially when the Normal cycle time was lengthened recently), but they just can't seem to do the same with their top-loaders. [this post was last edited: 2/26/2013-16:02]

 

[logixx]

Heavy Duty vs. Normal

Does Heavy Duty offer a more vigorous wash action (maybe more of those spin motions) or is one supposed to reduce the max load size for HD - thus the cycle time can be lowered?