Front Loader Experts

[timborow]

We have a GE front loader that we bought 3 years ago. It has developed a "squeeking" sound when it washes and slow spins. It also is taking longer to complete a load because it will respin 2 or three times trying to balance the load. I had a repairman out yesterday because I purchased the extended warranty. He said he couldn't find anything wrong with the wahser. He said we were not washing BIG enough loads. Another thing he pointed out was that we should only be using about 2 tbs. of detergent. Could these things really be the problem, or was he trying to get out of a repair. He said these type machines average about an 8 year life span. WHAT? I only have about 5 years left on a $800 machine. I think I'll begin looking for an old fashioned top loader. Please give your opinion as to whether or not his advice is accurate.
Tim

 

[cfz2882]

try running it with no load and observe the drum to see if it
wobbles-also try to push up on the drum from inside to see if
it moves a bit independant of the outer tub.If there is any
significant movement,bearings may have gotten water in them
and are going bad.Also you can take the back of the machine off
and look for evidence of rusty water leaking behind the big
drum pulley and slinging off.

 

[passatdoc]

2 tablespoons of soap per load is a tad low for a US-sized machine, but basically accurate. (for a European size machine, 2 tbsp should be plenty). I use powdered Tide HE detergent and use a coffee scoop (one scoop = 30 ml = 2 tablespoons) to measure detergent. I use 1 1/2 scoops per load, i.e. about 3 tablespoons per load. A little bit more for heavily soiled loads, which are rare.

From what I've read here over four years, bearing failures are not super-expensive to repair. The death knell for these machines is when/if the spider arm bracket (which holds the inner basket from the rear and attaches to the bearings) fails. Most companies make them with aluminum, which is subject to corrosion, and most companies do not offer a direct replacement part: you have to buy a new spider bracket AND inner tub, pushing the cost for parts alone to over $225.

From what people have posted here, several factors accelerate the corrosion:

1. use of chlorine bleach
2. use of a water softener

some have implicated liquid detergents or using too much soap as a risk for premature bearing failure.

So my rules are:

a. powdered HE detergent only. Not a large choice of detergents in this case, but Tide HE powder isn't hard to find.

b. no chlorine bleach, ever. ok to use oxygen bleach like OxyClean when needed.

c. I use Borax as a booster in my hard water. Others here have posted that Borax does not harm the spider, and is a safe way to compensate for hard water.

To prevent mold, I leave door ajar when not in use, and empty the accumulated water in the dispenser drawer and let it dry. I also descale the washer once a quarter with 1/3 cup of citric acid (and the same for the DW) and hot water.

So far, my four year old FL has given over four years of trusty service, running five-six loads per week. Given that I paid $600 for it (Frigidaire 2140), if it goes ten years I'd consider that to be reasonable value. The problem with repairing a FL vs a TL is that the most likely part to break on a FL is the spider, and it's a very costly repair. TL repairs are often less costly, though my GE TL which preceded the FL broke after nine years of use and could NOT be repaired, period. That machine was $400 in 1997 and lasted nine years, not a great record of service either.

 

[yogitunes]

also, check your warranty fine print, you should have the option to have a second and third opinion, and if they can't fix it for the same reason 3 times, they either offer you a refund or new machine...never hurts to check this out

at least thats what my GE warranty covers

I got my Neptune from Best Buy, and the extended warranty, after 3 repairs in 2 months they delivered a new machine

years ago I had a Kenmore FL, the motor would chatter everytime it spun counter-clockwise, repairman seen no real problem with the sound, just annoying....bitched/complained enough to the SEARS appliance manager, got a FULL refund on the washer and dryer......

hope this helps

 

[timborow]

Thanks

I have done several LARGE loads today with 2tbs. of Tide HE, and it has done much better. It seems to add more water with large loads. Thanks for all the advice. Maybe he was right after all. Do any of you only do large loads?
Tim

 

[dj-gabriele]

I speak for me only (European front loader): I only do complete loads as I don't see the point in doing more small loads and thus wasting resources. On top of that the washing machine washes better and has no issues in spinning.

 

[passatdoc]

Hi Tim,

I have one of those laundry sorting centers near my machines. See link and pic below; purchased at Lowes. It has three bags for sorting laundry, a rack for hanging clothes removed from the dryer, and a storage shelf on top. I sort by wash type and drying requirements, as follows:

1. perm press (95% of which is wrinkle-resistant LL Bean 100% cotton trousers and shirts from LL Bean), using Perm Press wash and dry cycles

2. towels and bed linens: hot Heavy wash cycle, hot or warm dry using Heavy Cycle

3. cottons like t-shirts, jeans, underwear, socks, etc.: warm wash (normal or heavy), normal dry on warm.

I have virtually no white clothing other than t-shirts and a few white dress shirts, so I don't really sort by color. Washing the white dress shirts (LL Bean perm press all cotton) with light-colored similar fabrics gives good results and I don't even have enough white dress shirts to make up even close to a full load.

It so happens that when one of those sorting bags is filled to the brim, it's equal to a full load in my 3.5 cu ft Frigidaire 2140. A full bag would NOT be a full load in a larger machine, but for me it's a full load. The only time I wash less than a full load would be doing delicates (sweaters, throw pillows, etc.) or other items that need special care. I have more than enough clothing, towels, and linens to last, so I can wait until the bags are full.

Most people overdose their detergent when first using a front loader. Good to hear your results were better with less detergent. You are correct about the machine adding more water to large or absorbent loads. Most FLs have a water level sensor. If the load is large and absorbent, the water level will not be high enough after initial fill (as the clothing or towels absorb the water with initial agitation) and more water will be added after a brief agitation period. Sometimes my machine will pause and fill two more times after initial fill, if it's say a full load of towels. Less absorbent full loads like permanent press may achieve adequate water levels with the initial fill.

The dosing instructions I wrote earlier were for Tide HE powder. I have no experience using the 2X liquids, but again I'd use no more than 2 tbsp. About two weeks after the machines were delivered, I had house guests from Sweden who used the machines to wash several loads. I watched my friend measure out the detergent (at that time, All Free/Clear HE liquid, though now I use only powders) and she used only 2 tbsp. So I could see I was using way too much, and learned by copying friends from Europe who'd been using FLs since forever.

Loading…

www.lowes.com

 

[passatdoc]

@dj-gabriele: agree, however some of the newer US machines are much larger and I am afraid people will waste energy by doing smaller loads, particularly if they don't have enough clothes to last until they can do a full load!! The large capacities are nice for doing large things like comforters or quilts or blankets, but they can be awfully tough to fill with clothes!! My 3.5 cu ft (about 9 kgs) Frigidaire was close to the highest capacity (Whirlpool Duets were the largest at 3.7 cu ft) when I bought my machine in 2006. Now, 3.5 is one of the smaller ones sold here (not counting European size machines), and Frigidaire's new line is 4.0-4.4 cu ft. Electrolux sells machines that are 4.7 cu ft. Great for a large family, not so great for couples or those living singly.

 

[mark_wpduet]

You know, My Duet drum squeaked for a short time during the third year, but it stopped and hasn't squeaked in a long time. I did nothing. It does spin fine though.

 

[passatdoc]

ps on liquid detergents

@timborow: continuing on the topic of stealing laundry tips from European friends....another axiom taught me in Sweden was to avoid using the dispenser drawer for liquid detergent because of its tendency to gum up the drawer and leave residue. Until I switched over to Tide HE powder, I was using various brands of HE liquids (Kirkland, All HE, Gain HE, etc.). However, I followed my Swedish friend's advice and placed the detergent directly in the wash basket, by adding it to one of those little plastic measuring cups that come with the giant size liquid at Costco (the kind with the spigot for dispensing the liquid).

My machine just siphons whatever's in the dispenser as soon as the machine starts up (there is no prewash on this model, you can do a prewash with Soak cycle but then you must restart a wash cycle manually and add more soap), so you might as well expedite the process and just throw it in the tub, since there is no Prewash. In Sweden, liquid detergents often come with a free hollow plastic ball with a hole in it; you add detergent in the hole, place the ball on top of the clothes, and there are no sharp edges to catch on clothing.

Now that I only use powders, I do use the dispenser drawer, which is another reason why I prefer powders over liquids: no gummy accumulation of detergent. If one's machine has a prewash, even more of a reason to avoid liquids, because you can't just place the soap in a ball or cup for both prewash and main wash. You're forced to use the dispenser drawer for at least either prewash or main wash, and a liquid just gums things up.

There is a very small selection of HE powders in this country. Some, like Kirkland and Sears Ultra, have labels that say they can be used for both HE and TL machines. That makes me suspicious that they didn't really rework the formula and are using labeling to sell a product that is trying to serve two masters. So the only thing I can find on the shelves here is Tide HE, though recently I learned that Seventh Generation HE powder is sold at Ralphs markets in my area. (wow, two whole choices....). When in Europe I try to bring home packages of Persil or the local version (Skip, Via, UK Persil, etc.) depending on the country. Tide HE isn't cheap, but if you only use 2-3 tbsp per load, it lasts a long time and sort of makes cost a non-issue.

 

[iheartmaytag]

Tide HE powder

Is getting very hard to find in my area. Walmart pretty much discontinued powders of all kinds. What is left is being clearanced, no HE powders to be found in that area.

I found Tide HE at K-Mart Saturday, but it was $5 more than the non-HE box, $15.99. I haven't used liquids in my HE machine because I heard one shouldn't, may have to change my mind if I can't find the powder.

When I was looking at machines, the guy at Sear's said that you shouldn't have to use more than 2-3Tbs of detergent per load. He also suggested the first few times I washed to use even less because of the left over detergent in clothes from previous washings.

 

[launderess]

Tide Powders

Along with those of other brands are really going the way of the DoDo it seems. In most local supermarkets and shops liquid detergents are >70% of shelf space, if not totally. Powders are usually found near the bottom and are few.

Depending upon the machine, liquid detergents per se aren't that bad, I mean in Europe and the UK where "HE" machines dominate, the move is towards gels, liquids, liquid-tabs and so forth and while there are some problems, it mainly has to do with mouldy/smelly washers. This last bit can be fixed by either adding bleach (oxygen or chlorine) to as many loads as possible, especially if one washes mostly at or below temps <100F, or run a "clean washer" cycle once a month or so.

The main problem with many liquid detergents in the USA, especially versions of Tide, is they create too much froth. Mind you this could be due to over dosing by consumers, but the results over time are bad for bearings and other parts of the washer.

Depending upon the design of the washer, excess froth can work it's way into the bearing seals and basically rot them away.

 

[tbolt25]

Speed Queen Top-Loader

Timborow, I think you would be better off just buying a new Speed Queen top-loader-it is the last of the old-school washers-long, slow agitator strokes, the best warranty and customer service, and metal parts-not like these newfangled HE top-loaders, and plastic washers. I have a new Speed Queen top-loader, and am thrilled with it-classic sounds of a belt-drive and everything.

 

[timborow]

My Washer

I guess the repair man was right. We have used only 2tbsp. of Tide HE with every load. We have also done very large full loads. No squeeking. No spinning problems. Very clean clothes to boot.

Just thought I would share.

Tim

 

[launderess]

Tide HE is now "2X" IIRC

So think of 2 tablespoons as four of the previous version.

Either way most all Tide products, especially liquids then to be rather high in the froth producing side. I never use more than 1 tablespoon of Tide "Free&Clear" liquid in my small Miele and everything comes out quite clean.

What I did was measure out a tablespoon into the dispensing cap from Tide, and mark the level. Now I know just how much to pour and don't have to worry about getting a tablespoon dirty.