frontload laundry

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gelaundry4ever

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Good morning everybody,
I'd like to share with you my thoughts on frontload laundry.
When I was a kid, we lived in a duplex. Whenever we had to do laundry, we had to go to the wells laundromat on 38th street across from the Killeen high school. Once there, we'd use the frontload washers because we had big loads. You could hear and see all the water splashing around. The dryers got nice and hot. Meanwhile, the GE filter-flo pair was in storage because we didn't have hookups for them. I've been to the laundromat with my mom and dad on separate occasions. That may have been my first encounter with the frontload washers and dryers - all of which had windows.
When we moved into a single family home in August 3, 1999, We took the filter-flo pair with us. We used it nearly every single day until the transmission went out in 2000 or 2001. My dad wanted a frontload pair, but couldn't afford one at the time. So, we settled on another GE set. This time, it was the one that came out after the filter-flos. It saw 5 dishwashers and 2 fridges, with the first one seeing the filter-flo. As a sidenote, we did have a chest freezer and a dorm fridge. Back to the subject at hand. The GE was also used nearly every single day until I got older in my teens when it was used every single week.
In 2007, my mom got a frontload pair in her 2-story home, which is still working today. When I first saw it, I couldn't believe how fancy it was. It had all kinds of fancy buttons. Months later in 2008, she showed me how to use it. One thing I noticed, when I push the power button and turn the dial once, it goes right to cotton/normal. If I want cold water, I simply pres temp 3 times on the normal cycle. It would tumble clockwise and counterclockwise and use water circulation. When it would spin, my mom commented, "It sounds like a jet." This was when she first got it.
In 2017, my dad got his frontload matching pair used from a couple who got it brand new. He was fortunate to get one, even if it was used. My mom's had nearly everything laundered from under the sun, from her wool sweaters to heavily soiled and smelly everyday sturdy cottons like jeans and t-shirts.
My dad's is a Kenmore elite pair made by lg. It uses accelawash which is default on the normal/casual cycle. I have used steam on my mom's washer on a load of whites. Now that I've been thinking long and hard about it, I realize that frontload laundry has existed for a long time, and can handle nearly any fabric. We have used HE detergent when we had ours. My dad's dryer has steam too.
What are your thoughts?
 
Hi GELaundry4ever. I bought my first front loader last year in June 2019.

I have to say I am a convert to front load washing. I thought I would miss all of that water but I have been pleasantly surprised at how good they actually do wash.

I purchased a Whirlpool WTW6620 and it is a very good performing washer. I like the fact Ito is closet depth and not too deep.

I echo all the sentiments about getting one with a heater if you live in North America.With the overboard low water use you will need that heater to keep that puddle hot.
 
in addition...

I would get one with a water pump for circulation and freshwater rinse spout. There seems to be plenty of water despite a smaller amount. they seem to use durable materials to hold all that water. All the clothes seem to compact when drenched. I believe the newer lg's have a hidden balance ring. I believe my Kenmore elite at my dad's has it along with accelawash. Frontloaders are heavier than their topload counterparts, I noticed. I, too, missed the water in a topload washer. When my mom's washer goes into spin, it starts at 500rpm. Then, depending on the load size and conditions, it will either slowdown and redistribute, or just takeoff. My dad's does something similar, but his starts at 400rpm, and activate the rinse jet with accelawash active depending on the load situation, either slowdown to redistribute or just takeoff immediately. When you move or spin the drum in my dad's washer, you can hear a tapping sound like tick, tick, tick, tick. It could be the hidden balance ring or the suspension design.
One time, I put it on diagnostic mode, and pressed start until I got to the bleach/rinse jet. Immediately, water started filling the tub via the rinse jet at the top of the door. When I put it on circulation twice more, I could hear the jets strike the back of the drum. I then drained the water out then opened the door. Water was dripping from the jet. This machine uses a decent amount of water! It reminds me of a frontloading GE filter-flo. This is especially true when it fills on cold. I especially love the water circulation during wash/deep softener rinse so that fabric softener becomes completely mixed through the fabric while tumbling. I love the spray rinse during spinning in both intermediate and final spins. I too was suspicious when I observed a single deep rinse. When I listened closely during the spin cycle, I could hear freshwater hitting all over the drum, including the front and back of it.
 
industrial appearance and action

It seems frontloaders have an industrial appearance to them. I like seeing the wash action through a glass window, including the recirculation and rinse jets. I am amazed at how durable and tough my lg and lg-built Kenmore elite frontloaders are. Frontloaders have come a long way. Is there still work to be done? Yes. At least lg worked with GE to build appliances and learned from the best.
 
My question is this. How is it in the USA that front loaders in the past were tested and found not to wash as good as top loaders even with low sudsing detergent ?

Since the introduction of the Frigidaire gallery in 1997? the paradigm has shifted ?

What changed ? Honestly I can't see how a front loader CAN'T clean as well or better being the entire load is tumbling and rubbing on each other.
 
I grew up in Europe. My parents got their first FL washer around 1994/1995. That washer worked for a long time. They own third FL washer since then.
When I moved to my own house , I didn’t even look at TL, got FL in 2013 and still working to this day( LG turbowash).
Before I moved to my own house I lived in rental with cheapest TL. It was the worst washer I ever used. It tore holes in t-shirts, jumped around the room and had many more problems.
 
early FL washers in USA

tested just average for soil removal by consumer mags. Modern FLs typically receive superior ratings. I think there are two reasons for this.

1) Low sudsing detergents in the 50's and 60's were not nearly as effective as today's HE detergents. There were only a few brands of low/controlled sudsing detergents and not as much effort went into their formulations. The high sudsing detergents cleaned better than the low sudsing ones in those days. Even the few low/controlled suds detergents available then produced much more foam than today's HE detergents do. Foam cushions the wash action in a FL washer, reducing the effectiveness.

2) Early FL washers filled the drum with much more water, which was good for rinsing but decreased wash action. Clothing rolled in the water instead of the lifting/dropping action in today's machines where clothing saturated with water/detergent solution is slapped against the drum.
 
laundromat and residential frontloaders

I noticed that the laundromat frontloaders fill the tub full during both washing/rinsing. The tub had slightly bigger holes to allow slower spin with max extraction with I believe 400 or so g's. The residential ones, however, have smaller holes and spin much faster. Another thing I noticed was that most laundromat frontloaders don't have rubber seals whereas most residential ones do. Granted, I rarely if ever had a mold/mildew issue. I love my Kenmore elite. I can do a normal/casual cycle anywhere from 26-53 minutes depending on load size. The matching dryer gets nice and hot on the normal cycle. I always turn off energy saver. I can add steam to the cycle. In my opinion, I think the residential frontloaders got their cues from their commercial/industrial and European counterparts. I thnk laundromat frontloaders should have powerful water recirculation pumps that always turn on during wash/rinse and freshwater spouts that fill the tub faster during the above wash/deep softener rinse cycles and spray rinse the tub during spray rinse cycles like some of the lg's do. just saying.
 
Smaller diameter holes for suds container lessen amount of water used because less fills gap between inner and outer tubs. Sort of same as with solid tub washing machines. Some vintage European front loaders had very small slits along rear of suds container (and IIRC) also near vanes for same reason.

That being said smaller holes in suds container also means solids and other matter do not drain well from wash. Commercial/industrial H-axis washing machines, especially "sluice" type of machines used for healthcare linens remain with somewhat larger holes. This is to allow various matter (vomit, feces, hair, bits of food,sand,dirt, etc..) to drain away with each change of water.

Hair of course is the bane of any washing machine, and there is only so much either top or side loading can remove under best of circumstances.

Betty Furness demonstrated this with Westinghouse front loaders.





With tumble dryers nearly standard in most home or laundromats removal of hair, lint and other debris is usually left to that device. However most doing laundry still want grit, dirt, and other sort of debris removed by washer if possible.

Commercial laundries OTOH to avoid manually sluicing fouled washing. Indeed in many parts of EU those doing large amounts of nursing home or any other laundry routinely fouled by say feces are strongly recommended or even require to use a washer with sluicing capabilities.

You could never do this sort of washing routinely in a domestic washer. Look at size of holes in suds container..



Yes, Miele and everyone else make all sorts of claims about "honeycomb" drums and or tiny holes promoting various textile saving benefits. But large factor still remains it allows them to reduce water use. Miele like others have incorporated that technology into their higher end "professional" washers, but don't believe any commercial/industrial machines do so.
 
 
I'm missing something on the concept of smaller perforations reducing water usage.  Seems reasonable that any perfs in the suds/clothes container regardless of size allow water to pass through into the outer tub until equalization is reached between them.
 
Between honeycomb structure of drum and smaller holes more water remains in tub.This helps create a "wall of water" if you will that allows wash to slide which reduces friction.

Difference is sort of like that between a sieve and colander. The latter have larger holes because you want water to quickly pass through whatever is being drained. While the former's mesh screen will hold more fluid especially if there are solids mixed in.

Or if anyone has made cheese, drained curds/whey through say cheesecloth you know yes fluids will drain out eventually, but at a very slow rate. OTOH if you used something with a wider mesh (larger holes) fluid would pass through quickly and more easily.

On new Miele washers with honeycomb drum the gap between suds container and drum are far less than in past. In fact the two almost hug each other things are so tight. Don't have time atm to work out sums, but if you used same amount of water

https://www.mieleusa.com/professional/commercial-washing-machines-390.htm

Miele has nearly halved water consumption in their washers since 1990's. Recirculating jets will get things but so far, you still need a good amount of water in tub even if only to "wet nap" wash things.

https://m.miele.com/en/com/washing-machine-water-consumption-4311.htm
 
1) It's a tub or outer drum, not a "suds container".

2) Holes are holes. Smaller holes and the honeycomb pattern simply are gentler on fabrics than larger holes. IMHO they have zilch to do with water consumption, and do not necessarily result in a smaller gap between wash drum and wash tub.

3) As stated the lack of effective low sudsing detergents in years gone by is likely the primary cause of any test results that don't show a significant improvement in cleaning performance in a vintage front loader vs. a vintage top loader. Other probable factors:

A) User ignorance resulting in a tendency to overdose with high sudsing detergent, or soaps, with commensurately lower wash/rinse performance.

B) In the absence of an internal water heater in most vintage front loaders, less water volume in front loader means lower effective wash temps vs. a top loader, because therms are lost heating up the washer internals as well as the laundry load. The larger water volume of a vintage top loader means there are more therms available to heat the washer and the load.

C) Lower drum spin speeds in a vintage front loader vs. a modern one may mean less than adequate wash and rinse water removal. This effect would be minimized by the larger water volume of a vintage top loader which would dilute soil in wash water and suds in rinse water.
 

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