gay? borned to it..or learned behaviour...

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Now Greg

Just simma down here.
I'm not sure, but I think somewhere along the line sdlee
has made it clear that he is of the homo orientation.
Whether he is or isn't is of nominal consequence to me.
Most of the participants of AW.O are pretty direct
about what they consider their sexual , and other identities
to be. It seems to me that the question is as innocuous
as somebody stating "What age were you when you realized
you had a keen interest in antiques, cars, appliances etc.?"
Maybe a little too personal for some of us , but generally
it is frequently a topic of conversation. And given the fact that it is the Month typically, at least since the early
70's, that Contemporay Gay Culture is more enthusiastically
celebrated (or at least more publicly), on this forum it isn't
that over the top of a thread subject , speaking for myself
of course. I think the reference to infants is simply a comment relative to speculation that they may mature to
be homosexual,and some of them may even be intelligent enough
to observe a more mature human and have at least a response
of more appeal, or less appeal. It is well documented that
babies and very young children are perceived to respond in
all manner to all sorts of external stimuli. I know that by the time I was 4 or 5 I was having those kinds of notions about other males. As for sd's opening "out of the gate" statement , I think the only thing one learns about their own (or anybody elses, for that matter) "gayness"
is to be happy, or unnecessarily burdoned by it!
 
let me see....

I think it was about when I was eleven...

I got handed a menu, on it was a selection:

Would you like a lifetime of

Discrimination of every kind?
Name calling?
Unimaginable physical/mental abuse?
Sadness?
Isolation?
Ridicule?
Exposure to fatal disease?
Stereotyping?

I said "sure, where do I sign up?"

NO, it's NOT a choice!
 
yea, me too

I had to look back twice at the original posting to make sure I copied that exact.

Gee Darrell, that means he's telling us he learned to be gay and was not born gay?

By the way, I have always thought well of sdlee, no reason not to continue to think well of him either. I just want Lee to think about what he posted.
 
I guess this

is one of those questions that was hauting Lee. Like....

CAN YOU CRY UNDER WATER?
________________________________________
HOW IMPORTANT DOES A PERSON HAVE TO BE BEFORE THEY ARE CONSIDERED ASSASSINATED INSTEAD OF JUST MURDERED?
________________________________________
WHY DO YOU HAVE TO "PUT YOUR TWO CENTS IN"... BUT IT'S ONLY A "PENNY FOR YOUR THOUGHTS"? WHERE'S THAT EXTRA PENNY GOING TO?
________________________________________
ONCE YOU'RE IN HEAVEN, DO YOU GET STUCK WEARING THE CLOTHES YOU WERE BURIED IN FOR ETERNITY?
________________________________________
WHY DOES A ROUND PIZZA COME IN A SQUARE BOX?
________________________________________
WHAT DISEASE DID CURED HAM ACTUALLY HAVE?
________________________________________
HOW IS IT THAT WE PUT MAN ON THE MOON BEFORE WE FIGURED OUT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO PUT WHEELS ON LUGGAGE?
________________________________________
WHY IS IT THAT PEOPLE SAY THEY "SLEPT LIKE A BABY" WHEN BABIES WAKE UP LIKE EVERY TWO HOURS?
________________________________________
IF A DEAF PERSON HAS TO GO TO COURT, IS IT STILL CALLED A HEARING?
________________________________________
WHY ARE YOU IN A MOVIE, BUT YOU'RE ON TV?
________________________________________
WHY DO PEOPLE PAY TO GO UP TALL BUILDINGS AND THEN PUT MONEY IN BINOCULARS TO LOOK AT THINGS ON THE GROUND?
________________________________________
WHY DO DOCTORS LEAVE THE ROOM WHILE YOU CHANGE? THEY'RE GOING TO SEE YOU NAKED ANYWAY.
________________________________________
WHY IS "BRA" SINGULAR AND "PANTIES" PLURAL?
________________________________________
WHY DO TOASTERS ALWAYS HAVE A SETTING THAT BURNS THE TOAST TO A HORRIBLE CRISP, WHICH NO DECENT HUMAN BEING WOULD EAT?
________________________________________
IF JIMMY CRACKS CORN AND NO ONE CARES, WHY IS THERE A STUPID SONG ABOUT HIM?
________________________________________
CAN A HEARSE CARRYING A CORPSE DRIVE IN THE CARPOOL LANE ?
________________________________________
IF THE PROFESSOR ON GILLIGAN'S ISLAND CAN MAKE A RADIO OUT OF A COCONUT, WHY CAN'T HE FIX A HOLE IN A BOAT?
________________________________________
WHY DOES GOOFY STAND ERECT WHILE PLUTO REMAINS ON ALL FOURS? THEY'RE BOTH DOGS!
________________________________________
IF WILE E. COYOTE HAD ENOUGH MONEY TO BUY ALL THAT ACME CRAP, WHY DIDN'T HE JUST BUY DINNER?
________________________________________
IF CORN OIL IS MADE FROM CORN, AND VEGETABLE OIL IS MADE FROM VEGETABLES, WHAT IS BABY OIL MADE FROM?
________________________________________
DO THE ALPHABET SONG AND TWINKLE, TWINKLE LITTLE STAR HAVE THE SAME TUNE?
________________________________________
WHY DID YOU JUST TRY SINGING THE TWO SONGS ABOVE?
________________________________________
WHY DO THEY CALL IT AN ASTEROID WHEN IT'S OUTSIDE THE HEMISPHERE, BUT CALL IT A HEMORRHOID WHEN IT'S IN YOUR BUTT?
________________________________________
DID YOU EVER NOTICE THAT WHEN YOU BLOW IN A DOG'S FACE, HE GETS MAD AT YOU, BUT WHEN YOU TAKE HIM FOR A CAR RIDE, HE STICKS HIS HEAD OUT THE WINDOW?
________________________________________
DO YOU EVER WONDER WHY LEE ASKED US IN THE FIRST PLACE OR WHY GREG (ME) IS BEATING THE ISSUE TO DEATH?
________________________________________

ok, I said enough, I want to hear back from Lee. Is he a top or a bottom? LOLOLOL!!!

=
 
Learned.

Monday was piano lessons, Thursday was gay school, every other Saturday was swimming lessons.

And in between, it was practice, practice, practice.

veg
 
By the way

I got set off on a roll today when I was asked by a researcher the following question:

If I check my ancestors confederate pension application do you think he may have listed where he is buried?

And I am dead serious the guy asked me that question in complete expectation of an answer as to the burial location of the man filling out the form.

The only polite thing I could think of to say was "Please think really hard about your question" and I walked away.

YOHOO, Lee where are you....
 
There was never an alternative for me, it was how I was from a really young age, so unless all of those timeless childrens books are really gay propaganda to infect the young, it must be genetic.

Lee, I take offense that you're confusing masculine and gay. I seem to manage to be both. Am I butch, no. Mascualine, yes. Feminine yes. I just am who I am and proud of it.

I wasnt sexually aware until I was 13 or 14, but looking back at my pre teen days, there were the following signs.

1) In cowboys and Indians, I always wanted to be the Indian.
2) I was a Mummy's boy, I loved baking, cooking, cleaning and sewing.
3) I loved playing and talking with girls, but that was because we had similiar interests. Doll houses, Dressups, Tea Parties.

Before Lee points out that these arent normal masculine male child traits, I also loved.

1) Riding my bike until all hours
2) Building Tree houses, falling out and getting banged up.
3) Jumping into the river off the cliffs and other crazy dangerous things
4) Mowing the lawn, raking leaves (To jump into) and playing in the mud around the lagoon.
5) I spent the equivilent of a couple of years filling the sandpit with water and playing with my Tonka Trucks.

As a child I didnt know what Gay meant, I new I was different by about age 8, and around by age 10 the Sydney G&L Mardi grais become required family viewing each year. (I dont know whether my mother had a subconscious understanding) By age 13 or so, I'd finally connected the dots and figured out who I was.

With the well rounded childhood I had, and a mother who's philosophy around, life, work, religion, etc is to provide her children with all of the information so I can make informed decisions, I dont see that there was any pressure or gay mind control that made me who I am.

I guess I was lucky being a child of the 80's, I've never had to feel that I need to lie or pretend about who I am. Michael who is 11 years older than me, didnt have that luxury and pretended until he was in his late 20's, it was a shock to both of us, how different and the same our experiences were.

Lee I would be interested to know what you were planning to get from this discussion. Its probably a good time for you to chime in with some feedback.
 
Thought for the day:

Straight women say "my girlfriend" to make it clear that they are not boffing "my friend" which can be takens as a euphimism for "love object"

For straight men and lesbianas, it implies you ARE boffing her.

So I just LOVE it when a gay man says "my grilfriend" or "my girlfirends" This IMMEDIATELY AND AUTOMATICALLY outs you as a homo, and makes it clear that you think of yourself as a woman. WEll at least that's how I take it being so butch and masuline and rugged and all.... *LOL*

(ducks and runs)

Definition of a REAL man:
Someone who doesn't have to prove anything to anyone, including himself.

YIKES! *LOL*
 
Mother: What did we do wrong? Is it the acting? I knew we shouldn’t have let you associate with theater people.

Me: That has nothing to do with it.

Mother: Well, no more plays.

Me: What does that have to do with anything?

Mother: The next thing you’re going to tell me you want to have an operation.

Me: Why would you think that?

Mother: Isn’t that the way it is? One is the man and the other is the woman? Which one are you?

Me: That’s not the way I am.

Mother: Just be true to your gender.

Father: So, I hear you like to touch and fondle other men and like to have other men touch and fondle you.

Me: I guess so.

Father: I can’t understand how you could let some other guy stick his pete in you.

Me: I don’t know.

Father: Well, if I was screwing Mrs. **** next door, I wouldn’t tell anyone else about it. You know what I mean?

Me: Yes.

Father: Go out and change the oil in the car. And move that air conditioner into the garage. And get a job next week, even if it’s flipping hamburgers. Understand?

Me: Yes.

These were actual conversations from my youth. They may seem comical on first blush but indicate certain trains of thought. I'm sure others could recount similar situations.

Thanks.
 
Lee is

no where in sight.

Hmmmm....

Toggle dear ..."thinks of yourself as a woman"

No I never have.

I know your (wonderful) humor so I take that in stride.

There are many gay men who never associate with the gay community due to stereotypes because they do not fit into the notion of being gay.

I enjoy seeing all the good gay humor here and appreciate each and everyone here.

When I was in the military nobody ever thought I was gay. Nobody knew when I was growing up. I didn't fit the stereotype. I defended guys in school that were called "sissie", "fag" or worse. Those guys were in the front lines as far as I was concerned. I knew they would fight the battles I did not have to.

I knew who and what I was and didn't give a rats ass who knew.

My hat is off to every effeminate guy who came out and made their place in life.

I believe anyone gay or lesbian needs to stand up and fight for their rights. And I mean FIGHT for your rights!!!

We have many straight people here who are smart enough to know how the world is but there are many people who are still living in complete ignorance.

And if my message has pissed anyone off ....Good, I'm glad I did!

Straight/intolerant America needs to get over it's self. They are not the only people who live here. The African nations need to learn that lesson also. Asia too.

'nough said??
 
Well how about

if all gay men and women treat straight people as a lower form of life as they have treated us.

They deserve it.

They have put us in insane institutions. They have killed us and burned us at the cross.

They have claimed "Holy Religion" over us.

And now today they have the Republican Party to condemn us.

As I said in my last post "enough said"

No, now that I think about it,

Now why should we be a silent community?

We should not be a violent community (although I can think of many reasons we should be a very violent community against straight people) and should work for better relations with the ignorant masses of the straight community.

Now let's look again.....where is little sdlee?
 
I get good grades,I go to church, I'm a cheerleader!

If you need understanding to this question just rent this movie.
For those that have never heard of it, it stars Natasha Lyonne,her mom Mink Stole,out of drag Rupaul and, love her voice,Cathy Moriarty.
Talks about a poor cheer leader sent to New Horizons to convert her back from being gay.
She had to find her ROOT,root being what made her gay, some of the reasons from her other needed reformed friends were,
1, girl, I play softball.
2, girl, I'm a vegetarian.
3, boy,I'm Jewish
4, boy, I work in retail.
5, girl,My mom was married in pants.
6, girl, I'm from France.
7, boy, too many after football showers.
8, boy, singer,dancer, homosexual.
Funny movie,worth it just to see the decor,outfits and Rupaul out of drag.
He is quite handsome.
 
Sdlee, I don't understand your comments about the baby. That's just weird.

I think you're making the assumption that gay men aren't masculine. I would say I am masculine. I'm mechanical, do electric work, some construction, etc. I've never been athletic, probably because of a disability. That never interested me. I find it amusing that most of my straight and gay friends ask me how to take something apart or to fix something.

I've never been attracted to a woman. I never tried to date a woman. I was terrified to come out and the possibility of rejection. As the smallest member of my high school class, I feared that I would get my butt kicked if anyone knew I was gay. Only later in my early 20's did I meet a friend that answered all my dumb questions and showed me that I could be openly gay and be ok. I'm ok with being gay. I wouldn't have chosen the more difficult life. Then again, being gay and single enables me to have more appliances in random places in the house and not get killed.
 
<blockquote>Then again, being gay and single enables me to have more appliances in random places in the house and not get killed.</blockquote>And there you have the "new" gay agenda. :-D
 
I was gonna stay out of this one, but

I didn't know I was straight until I was about 11 or so. Before that I had absolutely no thoughts of sex. And then I thought it was kind of icky till I was 14 or so.

So my comment is that if it can happen like this to people who are straight, then it must be true for people who are gay as well. So therefore I believe gay people are born gay.

And to further confuse the issue, I didn't realize that gay people even existed til I was 19 or so. But for the life of me I still can't figure out why some gay men want to run around in dresses. I think that it would be very uncomfortable.
 
The Heinz commercial...

Talk about a totally misunderstood commercial. The first time I saw it I got it. Think about the tag line "Like having a New York Deli in your Kitchen" or something like that, the guy in the kitchen is a Deli counter guy that replaced the "mum" and "wife". The husband is not really kissing the guy he is kissing his wife, since she uses Heinz.

I can easily see how it could be taken another way and I'd blame the ad guys for not making the point clearer, odds are heads will roll at that company. It would be too bad because it was an interesting commercial. All it would have taken is a 2 second shot where the "mum" open the jar and is instantly transformed into the deli guy.
 
well first of all...........

Im not in hiding (hmmm is that the word i want) or refuseing to respond. It looks to me that if we were all standing in a room discussing this there is no way I would get a word in edgewise......and besides I DO work for a living,cant be at the computer 24/7

I posed this question simply because someone asked it at an office get together. I wonder what all you guys would think about it and I betted myself that the answers would be plenty, and ofcorse you did not disappoint me.

However the implication some of you are trying make about the baby thing is inexcuseable. Cmon you guys have the smarts there is nothing weird going on there. I used a baby comment to drive home the idea that a baby knows nothing of these things( being gay straight or otherwise) and thus the wonder of whether homosexuality (and heterosexuality) are behaviours that are learned.....sheesh!!!! Im glad that only a small amount of you needed that explained to you.

Just re read my posting and am laughing at how misunderstood one can get. Theres no implication that Im confusing masculinity and homosexuality. Im not living in a cave but i did use the wrong word there. ......how do I explain it, the word I was looking for was whatever implies "not gay" "the opposite of being gay." Use whatever word works for you I just happened to use the word masculine in an attempt to represent the straight sector.

Am I gay or not hmmmmm? Im not dignifying that with an answer.
besides theres only one of you here that knows for sure.....DAmn!! F **K I just gave it away!!!!! Mother F**cker!!! ( hahahahha) some of you guys crack me up.

Well the truth is Im one of those bi guys. Predomintaely gay in my mind I suppose but every now and then there are women who can get to me and believe the fireworks fly the same heights.

now some of you hate me.
now some of you say good for me
now some of you say just how permiscous is he?
I say this isnt suppose to be about me.

Why do I beleieve its learned behaviour? I just feel that it is. In my expierence for sure..........a friend,relative,someone much older than I had oral sex with me in a shower when I was very little....too little to know who it was but I do remember it was a guy.

At 14 a friend of a relative had his way with me (thats about as close as I can call it without it being literrally rape)One of us was not a consenting adult.

Am I traumtized by these events, hardly. Infact Id pretty much forgot about them untill this particualr debate came up.

At 17 I lost my straight virginity to a girl. I loved her, still do and loved our time together but like always time and geography has put us on opposite sides of the world.

I have been in love since with both sexes, lusted after both have had sex with both. I hear that they say you cant really have both and oddly i hear that from the gay world more than the straight world although its always the staright world that gets chasised for saying it. kinda wierd huh?

so anyway thats the story. Again the question is asked coz I thought it was intresting.And I still do.

Id like to ask it again but this time I will re word it for you and see if we can keep it on your own self rather than looking at why IM the one who asked it. See next thread
 
Whircool-----

I completely agree with you.
I believe we are all "hard-wired" at the factory to be who and what we are.

And you are right. Wearing a dress is unfomfortable and feels clumsy. Tried it once and after hours of preparation I ended up looking like the last known photo of Marjorie Maine.

Feh!
 
He likes kitty.

~Now some of you say just how permiscous is he?

My only thought is "Get him a spell-check option".
(ducks and runs).

In my mind you have not changed at all except for the bravery shown in sharing some details of your life, and helping us understand who you are.

oh and have your site-friend contact me. I expect a full review. LOL

6-25-2008-05-34-36--Toggleswitch2.jpg
 
Seek

some mental health assistance Lee. You really need to stop and think about what you posted. You can explain away your "intentions" until the cows come home or reword it. But the fact remains it speaks volumes about you.
 
heheheheh

aisde from being bi, gay, asexual or at times it seems celabate I am foremost a gentleman and gentlemen never, ever tell.

and i dont need a spell checker, i need a de-laziness-er

ie, the spellings bad because i am too lazy to fix it.

Look THAT up in your Funk and Wagnalls
 

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