Gays misled by Obama?

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If we were misled, it's only because our eyes were closed. Obama has held the same position against same-sex marriage since the beginning of his political career. I mean it's still a net positive for us (Obama won't push for a federal constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage, like Bush did), but overall he's still basically a phobe.
 
If only she wern't leaning left/communist.........

I think for our next president (after this new one) the country should consider a woman I met in high school through her gay brother. (Don't ask!)

Black & white, Jewish, left-handed lesbian with bi-sexual leanings. (I kid you not.)

She'd certainly consider everyone.
 
So, Obama feels comfortable inviting homophobe/anti-choice asshat Warren to his soiree; I can't help but notice there are no white supremacists invited.

Oh, kids! The road to equality is much longer, tougher and steeper than we want to admit. There is still so much prejudice and bigotry to break down. We tend to get excited over the 'one step forward' issues, forgetting that there will always, ALWAYS be a 'two steps back' followup.

God bless us, everyone.
 
On the flip side, I hear that Obama is proposing to appoint an openly gay person to be Secretary of the Navy.

I think this "change" falls under the general heading of "baby steps". Rome wasn't built in a day. Segregation wasn't ended overnight. Despite people with religious beliefs like Rev. Warren, legalization of gay marriage is inevitable - as Bill Clinton might say, it's on the right side of history, if for no better reason than the separation of church and state.
 
I don't think Obama is a 'phobe as much as he's playing it safe with his opinions about marriage. He'd alienate way more people if he said he was in favor of gay marriage. We need to keep in mind that regardless of how inspirational and promising he may come across, he's still a politician and is playing that game.

And again, I don't get the whole "marriage" term. Geez, call it something else then, but give us the same rights as everyone else gets when married, that's all. I've said it before. I don't need no stinkin' sacrament or religious sanction to make my union official. That's a church thing and the rights are a state thing, and to me this whole issue is a no-brainer. Like some molester priest doing mumbo jumbo over me is how I get a tax break or get to visit my partner in the hospital? Puleeeez! Being hung up on the word "marriage" is going to make this drag on for basically no reason other than terminology.
 
I Rarely:

Have anything to say here about politics, but I'm going to stick out my scrawny neck on this one.

My problem with the Rick Warren situation is that Warren supported the passage of California's infamous Proposition 8, a measure expressly designed to repeal rights previously granted to American citizens.

That is an odious thing for an American president to have anything to do with, at whatever remove. There is also a separation of church and state issue implicit in Prop. 8's passage, which makes it doubly grievous that Obama hasn't distanced himself from Warren.

I frankly expected better from the President-elect. I find it especially troubling that as more public indignation builds, Obama seems to be getting more and more stubborn about his choice, less receptive to the influence of public opinion. Where have we seen that before?

I can certainly understand that the road to equality is not smooth, and that there will be bumps along the way. But in this instance, a grave offence to millions of Americans could be avoided with a simple selection of a clergyman who has not imposed himself between a class of American citizens and their civil rights. I do not think that's too much to ask of a President.
 
On Rick Warren

There's no doubt Rick Warren is the poster child for the kinder, gentler version of the fundamental Christian Right (even though he is still stuck in the intolerant, homophobic leanings of the late Jerry Falwell and his ilk). And like other members of the GLBT community, I don't like the fact Barack Obama has invited this man to be on the same stage during the Inauguration.
But I would wait and see what Obama does after he takes office. There's something to be said about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer. And Warren knows all too well Obama's positions on GLBT rights are mostly the opposite of Warren's (same-sex marriage aside). It's what the President-Elect does in office that matters, not what he does as window dressing before taking the oath.
Frankly, I'm tired of being a punching bag for Bush, Cheney and their hypocritical, incompetent and dangerous leadership (such as it was) over the past eight years. I have no doubt whatever happens on January 20th, Barack Obama will be a far different leader and supporter of GLBT issues.
 
What MikeS said, plus a little more-

Mercy! The man hasn't been Inaugurated yet (sounds something like a sinister medical procedure "Mr. Doe, I am afraid we have to perform an emergency Inauguration on you.")

He'd get it on all sides if he had asked Reverend Jeremiah Wright to give the Invocation....

I am certainly NO fan of Rev. Warren, and his brain damaged book "Purpose Driven Life," but mercy..... I was in adult Sunday school group, and we were reading "Purpose Driven Life" (mostly out of fascinated horror), but I withdrew from that particular class when I learned how homophobic Rev Warren is actually.

President-elect Obama is a politician, and it is part of an American politician's lot to please as many people as possible and offend as few as possible. This cannot be accomplished simultaneously.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
OMG Can it be True

Go Al!!!! This graphic is a live stream of the recount and will update every time you press refresh if there is a new count. I would so love Al to win and take the seat away from Normy.

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Ralph makes a good point.

SF Mayor Gavin Newsome's historic effort to grant gays marriage rights in San Francisco in 2004, while admirable from a human rights point of view, was a disaster for the Democrats nationwide. It was probably a key factor in Kerry's defeat as well as the overall poor showing of Dems in congressional races that year. Which is not to say that Kerry was the best candidate we could have nominated, and he did a lot to ensure his own defeat as well.

In the Prop 8 campaign, the proponents of the ban ran a lot of an ad that featured footage of a somewhat tipsy Newsome (he's since admitted he has a drinking problem) proclaiming "Like it or not, it's gonna happen!" which probably helped Prop 8's passage. Newsome is probably a good mayor in other respects but he should probably clean up his own act before he tries to go national again. He wisely kept a low profile in 2008 and Obama should thank him for that ;-)

As I understand it, California's domestic partner law is nearly the same as the rights offered by marriage. The catch is when federal agencies become involved. For example, Social Security won't give survivor benefits to a registered domestic partner regardless of how tight that relationship was defined by state law. It only recognizes married couples. Same for the IRS, etc... It's an area of legal quicksand. The feds don't recognize domestic partnerships and the states by and large are unwilling to grant gays the right to marry. A compromise solution might be to have all federal agencies grant the same rights to domestic partners as it does to married couples. And perhaps that's what Obama has planned, or will settle upon as an interim solution.

Baby steps, baby.
 
Saw a bit of Warren on Dateline last night. He does have charisma (and yeah Bob, he's a bear for sure) and seems to be level-headed on most gay issues. Not this plastic smiling Falwell type at all. Again, it's the term "marriage" that the holy rollers have a thing about. Call it something else and they'll shut up, it seems.

Latest is that now the pro-8 people are going after marriages performed before the election and have secured supreme a-hole Ken Starr to make their case. I repeat: call it something besides marriage and they'll shut up.
 
Our state Supreme Court has already explained in detail why separate is not equal. If rights and responsibilities are supposed to be equal for opposite-sex and same-sex couples, there's no reason to maintain two names for the same thing -- except to appease bigotry.

The two constitutional options are a) marriage for both types of couples, or b) civil unions for both types of couples. Pick one, not both.
 
I don't give a you-know-what about what it's called. If not calling it marriage will get what we seek, COMMPROMISE!!! Life is about COMPROMISE. I just want to have the rights to visit sick partner, make medical decisions, inheritance, and probably even health insurance benefits without having to go through power of attorney and other legal documentation building. Seems to me it all blew up in facesa when y'all had to push for the term marriage!! Get over yourselves!!!!!!!
 
Do you also believe interracial couples "pushed" for their marriage rights a half-century ago? How about women, did they
"push" for suffrage 80 years ago? Or black people, did they "push" to become human beings instead of chattel in the 19th Century?

Gay couples aren't pushing for anything that's not already guaranteed them by our federal and state constitutions. California's Supreme Court has stated this explicitly: marriage is a right for all people, unless the state can prove a compelling interest in denying this right to a given class of people. And no, traditional and religious bigotry are not legally or morally defensible interests.
 
Well, for me, "marriage" is a religious term and has no place in any governmental reference to a union between two people. The churches can call it marriage all they want, they can sanctify opposite sex unions doomed to divorce all they want and make a mockery of their own sacred institution, but as far as what the government calls it, "civil union" should apply to all couples, same sex or opposite.

I'm with Bob. Give me and my partner of 23+ years those same rights and I don't give a rat's ass what you call it. Personally (and all the tacky tv shows about it will bear me out on this) I think "marriage" is for girls, just like tea parties and playing with dolls. Gives me chills to even think that term should apply to my LTR with my partner. NO THANKS.
 
The problem Ralph, is that any state law short of gay marriage means that the couple will still be denied federal benefits accorded only to married people. It's a catch-22: you can't get the state to approve gay marriage, but it will grant domestic partnerships all the rights of a married couple - but only within the state. The feds don't recognize domestic partnerships for things like social security, taxes, etc., and say that marriage is a matter left up to the states. The next step should be at the federal level to get all federal agencies to accord the same rights (and responsibilities) to state-approved domestic partnerships that it accords to married couples. Then, you'd be right, call it something other than marriage and it would be equivalent.

But I suspect by the time all this could be said and done, various states will eventually allow gay marriage anyway. It remains to be seen how Obama will deal with the issue. I suspect it's not at the top of his agenda, considering the economic crisis as well as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
Addendum:

I get more than a little peeved at the type of argument that Warren advanced against gay marriage: he wouldn't approve of polygamy, or marrying a child, or marrying a farm animal, either.

That is disingenuous and misleading. It's carrying things to a logical absurdity. All that would be needed is a simple requirement: marriage is for two persons of consenting age. That rules out all the nonsensical "what-if's?" that the opponents of gay marriage bring up in their arguments in favor of a ban.

I sincerely doubt there would be much if any movement to allow polygamy or human-animal marriage. And even less chance that any court would approve it.
 
I really hate my relationship to be lumped in with the relationships of humans and animals. Marriage isn't for girls, it's whatever you make it to be. If I happen to meet some cool guy and we like each other, I expect I'll get hitched at the Fox Theatre. Then my Husband and I will work as a team running the dual projector booth for some wonderful old movie.

Straight folks have already made a mockery out of marriage, what more can gay men do? Once again, I never asked for God's approval of my union, I just want all the social, health, and legal protections that straight people get.
 
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