GE LW11 Wall Fridge - Sealed System Info (Schematic?)

[MCMidHudson]

Hi all,

I've been lurking around here for a year or so now, and I've finally decided its time to get involved now that my collection is growing. I hope to be able to contribute more as time goes on, but right now I'm here to make a desperate plea for help!

I recently acquired a 1957 GE Wall Mount (LW11-P) in canary yellow, to match my cooktop and wall oven from that same year. I knew the system was not cooling properly before I brought it home, but the problem was unidentified.

I began to investigate, and ended up having to remove ALL the cabinet insulation, because it had become waterlogged over the years (yes, I mean soaked! What couldn't have been more than 10 pounds of fiberglass or so in '57 weighed over 60 pounds total when I pulled it out).

I suspected that the thermal mass of the water was contributing greatly to the lack of cooling, and I was proven right to a point. Now that the lines are (mostly) bare in the uninsulated cabinet, I have a warm compressor, roughly ambient and consistent condenser temp, and a cap tube that starts out about ambient where it leaves the strainer at the compressor discharge and proceeds to cool to the touch after it enters the cabinet. Just inside the cabinet, there's a loop in the cap tube/suction return (they're brazed together). The loop itself is insulated with disintegrating pipe insulation, and when it exits, the cap tube is separated but VERY frosty. The frost remains consistent for a few inches until the cap tube terminates in what I can only think must be some sort of filter or a very small receiver (it looks like six inches of 1/4 or 5/8 copper refrig tubing - I've attached the best picture I could get as I rushed out of the house in case anyone here can positively identify it). This contraption is likewise frosted, as is the slightly larger diameter cap tube that exits the other end. The larger tube is about 6 inches long and terminates at the freezer evap inlet. The frost continues on the evap tubing for about 6 inches further, and the evap is cool to the touch for another 30" or so. The rest of the freezer evap is roughly ambient. The fridge evap feels slightly warmer than ambient, as does the rest of the suction line back, which passes through a horizontal accumulator mounted on the back of the freezer evap/enclosure before returning to the compressor.

I haven't put gauges on the system yet, nor do I even know for sure that it is still charged with r-12 (although there's no indication it's been retrofitted). I will dig out my gauges this week to see what I can see, and ultimately I expect to have to need to get the system evacuated and recharged (I have a small supply of r12 to provide to a licensed tech when the time comes, as I have no interest in retrofitting)

In the meantime, the symptoms and temps I'm observing just don't appear to me as a major leak or a simple over- or under- charge. Any theories?

Personally, the 'condenser - strainer - cap tube - filter contraption - larger cap tube - evap' progression doesn't make any sense to me. I can't help but think perhaps it's not original, and that it's contributing to my issue, but please correct me if I'm totally off base.

If anyone might be able to get their hands on one, it would be super helpful to have a copy of the service manual for this model, and/or a schematic of the sealed system and its specs. I've collected all the scans of service info about the LW11 that I've found on others threads here and read them all thoroughly, but they only really address the electrical aspect rather than the sealed sys...

Thanks in advance for your ideas!

 

[MCMidHudson]

Another pic

The contraption I'm curious about is the bottom line in the above pic. I can't really get a good image of the end of it due to the cramped quarters, but just outside the frame it ends and another cap tube begins, this one slightly larger than the main cap from the condenser to here. You can see the second cap in the second photo, all the way in the back (right hand side of frame). The point where it meets the end of the contraption is hidden behind the suction line, which you can see right in front of the cap. The two larger lines in the foreground are the supply/return for the fridge evap. The secondary cap line is maybe 6 or 8 inches long, it meets the freezer evap inlet outside the bottom frame of the photo.

Here's hoping there's someone with some more refrigeration sealed sys experience than me out there who can make some sense of this for me!

~K

 

[MCMidHudson]

One more thing

I forgot to mention that the compressor seems to be in tip top shape from what I can tell, despite my fears pre-purchase that the lack of cooling might be due to a fried comp. It is an A-relay model, rather than the M-relay type that I've seen someone else here has, and the relay and 'guardette' seem to be working just fine. The comp fan also works great, so I've ruled out mechanic faults for the most part.

Cheers!

~Kevin

 

[turquoisedude]

Hi Kevin and welcome to automaticwasher.org!

I know what you are going through... I've been through some trials and tribulations with my '56 (with the M relay and an extra motor winding to contend with...)

I've also got a '57 model (in turquoise) that I purchased fearing my '56 compressor was shot - long story short, the 57 I have has had some cooling system work done, but the darn thing was just not cooling properly. It turned out that the cold control (not an original GE one) was not wired in properly. I had to do a little experimentation, but I got the refrigerator cycling properly again!

I can't help but wonder if the cold control is at fault in yours.

I don't have much documentation about these refrigerators myself, but I am always on the lookout for the service information of the 56 and 57 models - if I manage to find the 57 manual, I'll let you know!

 

[2packs4sure]

In the second pic the lines look oily

in the second pic the lines look oily.
Usually a sure sign of a refrigerant leak.

 

[rp2813]

My own experience, along with mention of it by others here a few times, is that the cold control on GE's from this period seems to be the weak link.

 

I suspected the control on my '57 Combination was faulty from the day I brought it into the house a few years ago, but it lasted about a year before it failed entirely and wouldn't cut out.   I had already purchased a replacement from Larry at Modern which solved the problem, and the fridge has been fine ever since.

 

[MCMidHudson]

Thanks for the info

Hi all,

turquoisedude - Thanks for the warm welcome! I'm pretty sure it was in some of the threads detailing your trials and tribulations that I found most of the scanned service info I've accumulated so far. I've yet to acquire a second unit for parts/backup, though it's been discussed and we're on the lookout.

I'll have to take a closer look at the cold control when I'm back from out of town next week. If I recall correctly, it appears to be an OEM part - I'll post a picture when I get home. The unit isn't cycling excessively (frankly, at all, given the high cabinet temps), so I'm almost certain that's not the cause of this particular issue, but it can't hurt to consider every possibility!

I appreciate the offer to keep me in mind in case you find the service manual - I'll do the same!

2packs4sure - Thanks for the insight. I tend to agree, and I plan to do a thorough leak check when I get home next week, but given what I've observed so far I imagine I'll come up happily empty handed in this case... These pics were taken very shortly after the wet insulation was removed from around these lines, so I think you're noticing the reflection of the flash on the condensation combined with the flecks of old paint and disintegrated pipe insulation rather than actual oil. The lines are not slippery to the touch at all as I would expect if there was a noticeable amount of compressor oil on them.

rp2813 - Good to know that more than one or two on here have had issues with the cold control. I might just see if Larry has any in stock and get one so I can switch it out to test - it can't hurt to have an extra knowing these are a problem part.

Would you mind sharing his contact info with me, I've seen a few people on here mention him but I don't recall how to get in touch...

Also, now that I re-read your post, I think I need to clarify - I may be reading into it a bit, but are you suggesting that perhaps a failed control could be causing the warm cabinet temps and frosted lines by causing the compressor to run too much?

I'm itching to get home so I can investigate further given the ideas from you all - will let you know what I find!

 

[rp2813]

Modern

Here's their number:  (216) 661-6966

 

When my cold control failed it was after I had dialed it to the "off" position for defrosting of the freezer.  The control had always been a little squirelly, so after each defrosting I kept an eye on things and also kept a digital thermometer with probe in a glassful of water in the fridge up until recently.

 

What happened was that even though I had set the control back to mid-range where it was before, the fridge kept running and the serpentine coil at the top of the fresh food section accumulated more frost than I'd ever witnessed, and the temp in that section had dropped to the low 30's.  That's when I knew the cold control was toast.  Nothing I did to it changed anything.  The fridge kept running.  So no, the cabinet interior wasn't warm.  Just the opposite.

 

If Larry has a replacement control, it will be a sort of universal type and not an original GE part.  It's easily adapted to fit a GE, with a lot fewer extraneous parts than the kit provides for other makes.  I had to cut the brass thumb wheel post on mine in order to get the control to fit in its cavity.  If you need to do this, be sure to compare with the old control and cut no more than necessary.  I cut a little too much and the thumb wheel isn't as secure a fit on the post as I'd like.  For this reason, I don't use it to shut the fridge off for defrosting.  I just unplug it instead.

 

 

 

 

[MCMidHudson]

Thanks!

Thanks for the phone number - I'll give them a call once I've had a chance to test the current cold control a bit more.

Thanks also for clarifying the circumstances of the control failure in your unit. I couldn't imagine a circumstance that a failed control would allow the compressor to run but result in a warm cabinet, but you never know with these things! Climb every mountain, or so they say...

 

[combo52]

GE Wall Ref Cooling Problems

Hi Kevin, if the compressor is running steadily and it is not cooling, the cold control is not the cause, it could also have issues, but the first thing is to get it cooling again. The first thing to do is add 4oz of R-12 [ GE refs have a built-in charging port, there is no reason to cut into the system at this point ] and see if it starts cooling better, if so you had a low charge and you have a leak. If adding Freon does not change anything you likely have a bad weak inefficient compressor [ has the compressor ever been changed ? ALL GE WALL refrigerators had compressors that wore out prematurely, very few lasted more than 10-20 years.

How much history do you have about this ref ?.

If you need more information Email me your Ph# and I can call and answer most of your questions, John L.