GE Steam Dishwasher

[johnb300m]

i'm not sure the "smart dispense" is a gimmick per se. But it definitely is a luxury, not a necessity.
GE's marketing claim is that many dish loads need more or less soap (usually less) based on the load soil.
We all know people love to pre rinse, so the dishwasher can decide how much soap to use, therefore pumping less chemicals down the drain and saving money on soap etc. It will also take into consideration your water hardness.
Now, will the soap savings pay for this machine? ha, probably not.

 

[johnb300m]

big blue spray arm

i just thought of something. that big blue arm might have a function.
what causes a good amount of noise in a dishwasher besides the spray?
the water falling back to the tub.
that's why dishwashers with sump suds lock sound so silent.
maybe the idea is for the water to hit that wash arm first, having less distance to roll back into the tub, to dampen the splashing noise????

interesting concept.

 

[launderess]

Never hear water when it reaches the bottom of my Kenmore 18" dw (made by Frigidare), however that does not mean your theory is incorrect.

Most noise one hears is from the motor, water hitting sides and top of the inside,pump and the built in waste disposer.

My unit does use a good amount of water, and therefore assume any water hitting the bottom of the tub would merely fall into water.

L.

 

[pturo]

How can "steam" clean any better than the hot water that makes the steam to begin with? Why call it out as a function?
Steam cleaning makes sense for items that you cannot fit in a dishwasher like sidewalks and buildings and shrinkable things like dry cleaning, and wallpapered walls.
Marketing gimmick for dishwashers, in my opinion. Besides, when I open my dishwasher at the end of the temperature boost rinse cycle, there is plenty of steam coming out that flash dries the dishes.(Saves money instead of using the heat dry cycle)
The steam washing machine I get, textiles are different than ceramics, glassware, and metals that do not shrink. It would be great to put my cashmere sweater through a steam cycle in a washing machine to freshen it and clean it, but a dirty lasagne pan? What would steam do better than the hot water that created the steam in the dishwasher to begin with? Water boils at what, 212 degrees, how could the steam be hotter when it is realesed into the cooler air?

The function of a cycle should fit the form of the item needed to be cleaned.
But that's just me.

 

[appnut]

Phillip, Waste King & Thermadore had Steam Machine dishwashers in the late 1970s and early 1980s. They did a pretty incredible job too!!

 

[launderess]

Steam

Same principle one sees in those infomercials trying to sell "steam cleaners" for domestic housecleaning. Steam is very effective in loosening and if the pressure is great enough, removing all sorts of muck and grime, with very little effort required.

Steam dishwashers were an answer to the tough problem of stuck on foods, pre-enzyme containing dishwasher detergents.

Unlike the steam one sees upon opening the door of a dishwasher or coming out of the vents (which is nothing more than the condensation caused by hot or very hot water meeting the cooler air outside the unit, a chamber full of steam (in theory), should melt off or at least greatly loosen burnt-on, baked-on, dried-on and otherwise tough foods from dishes.

 

[DADoES]

Steam contains much more heat energy than boiling water. Water boils at 212°F, true ... but MORE heat energy must be applied to change it into steam (steam is actually an invisible vapor). The water droplets one sees when steam hits a cooler surface such as a pot lid, or wafts through the air, is water condensed from the steam.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Better latent than never.

tech-tawk.

Steam is more effective in heating than hot water is in that there is a great deal of energy to be relased (exothermic)as the vapor condenses back to a liquid.

Ice cubes cool well because the process of going from solid to liquid absorbs a great deal of heat (endothermic).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat

 

[launderess]

Steam Power

Is what started the "Industrial Revolution".

Locomotives, power plants, factory equipment,ships, and the lot, anything formerly powered by oxen, persons,wind or even water was now powered by steam.

Bringing this on topic, commercial laundries were some of the first businesses to harness steam power, hence the term "steam laundry".

Today, while most machines in a laundry will have their own motors, eliminating the need for all those belts and such from central power, a central steam boiler still provides steam for heating dryers, irons, water in washing machines, finishing equipment and so forth. Tis far easier to maintain and operate one central boiler than, many scattered about. Of course then as now one has to know how to handle such beasts. High pressure steam is not something to fool around with.

L.

 

[pturo]

We are talking about a lot of different thermodynamic issues here.
Heating a room, doing laundry, or running power equipment is not the same as cleaning a pan in a 23/32 inch space with enzyme detergent and hot water vs steam.

I guess the question is does the steam cycle enhace the cleaning enough to benifit the extra cost in producing the steam, which must take extra energy.

Perhaps the test is taking two similaryly encrusted pans (this never happens, but whatever) and "steaming one" with one of those steam machines and not the other, and placing both in a non steam dishwasher, but one that heats water to sanitize.

The other variable to measure is does the tub of a steam dishwasher get hotter than the water it heats during the hottest wash or rinse cycle?

I am no expert, but seems to me unless the steam is under great pressure and directed at the mess needed to be cleaned, it cannot clean any better than the hot water that produces it.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Let me answer that question for you....yes, steam makes a difference in cleaning ability of heavily encrusted cookware, but none that I can notice on regular glassware. Having an LG Steam Dishwasher myself, which replaced a fairly new GE 9800 tall tub dishwasher when I remodeled my kitchen and went to stainless last year, the STEAM option on the LG makes the difference between cleaning roasting pans that the GE or the non-steam cycle could not clean completely. No residue left, no nothing. The LG's flexible loading also allows you to load pans to face the steam nozzles on the side of the machine. That, coupled with either the SOAK or POWER SCRUB cycles, cleans pots and pans without a trace of food residue left behind. Mostly roasting pans that have cooked roasted chickens and potatoes (very tough for a dishwasher to clean completely). The difference between the two is very evident. Using steam, it is not necessary for the dishwasher to heat the water much beyond what it normally does for most washing needs, which, in conjunction with softer water, could cause permanent etching on glasses if it's too hot. I do not notice, however, much of a difference in the cleaning of glassware with the steam vs non-steam cycles with "normal" loads since the LG is a very effective cleaner to begin with.

 

[frigilux]

I can attest to what Andrew says about the LG steam cycle. It's the only dishwasher I've ever owned that leaves absolutely no trace of a 'starch circle' on saucepans that have boiled pastas and sauces...if you use the steam option.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Good point Eugene, I forgot about the dreaded pasta and starch rings! I wash those in the upper rack, so they get the full effect of steam discharge...even the Normal cycle takes that off with the Steam option.

 

[stevet]

Me Too! Me Too!

Andrew, you got my curiosity piqued with the starch rings!
I threw a pot that Irene had boiled pasta in tonite for Steven into my Bosch machine in the garage and it came out spotless.I set it on the normal wash with a full detergent dispenser full of Finish/Electrasol.

It wasn't heavily starched up but the rings were there.
Maybe the true key to removing them is a good detergent AND good HOT water like the Bosch and no doubt your LG provide. Gets those enzymes working really well.

BTW, I took all of our every day silverware that was starting to look crappy in the KDS21 and washed it all in the Bosch with the same detergent on Normal cycle and every piece came out well cleaned and spotless!

If only the machine had the capacity the Kitchenaid has.. I would probably turn traitor like Toploader says and use the Bosch as my daily driver.

 

[andrewinorlando]

The Bosch is a little tight inside, that's true, but they are incredible cleaners. The LG has an enormous capacity, plus three racks to boot. It holds an enourmous quantity of pans, dishes, glasses and utensils. I too use the the Finish/Electrasol tabs in the LG, and you're right Steve....it cleans better than the KitchenAid ever did...no rings, no dulling, no spotting, even despite the fact that the machine has no drying heater. The KitchenAid could never even begin to clean pots/pans the way the LG does, not even close. It just didn't get hot enough, and didn't wash long enough. Funny thing, the LG cleans a lot of that stuff in the Normal cycle...like oatmeal/hot cereal pots. I also don't rinse anything with the LG...it goes right in the way it comes off the table, except for the olive pits, toothpicks, napkins and other undesirable garbage that just doesn't belong in a dishwasher!! The LG's drawback is that it has nothing to protect its pump...it's all open under that sump so I would imagine its easily damaged if a screw or other similar object gets in there. All I know is that you can hear that thing when its grinding hard food particles up.

If you're looking for something to use as a daily driver for the whole family, especially if Irene cooks every day, look for an LG TOL model and throw that in the kitchen for a while. You will NEVER have to run the hot water at the sink to heat the damned thing up, either. It will handle the heating automatically, all by itself as it needs it. And it heats fast. Only thing, the LG takes some getting used to....it's nothing like the KA to load!! It holds so much more and offers much loading flexibility, so Irene would really have to get used to using it.

 

[pturo]

Sounds good on a high end machine. My question is about the steam and pressure is would it work without facing the pans to the steam nozzles? Is steam only good under pressure against hard soil mainly directed to it in the conditons you describe or does the whole tub benefit better than really hot water, saving hot water?

Is steam cleaning good as an option for incidental use in a dishwasher that has the right nozzles equiped for certain lasagne pans, or is it something ground breaking and coming to every dishwasher to clean everything, thus saving water and time? Would 500 degrees of steam be better than 150 degrees in getting off the remains of a turkey carcass on a roasting pan? How much energy does it take to create that steam?
Otherwise, to me, it is kind of a gimmick, since steam cannot wash away anything unless under pressure, and would need hot water to rince it away.
I call bullshit on steam clean dishwashers. Heat the water and direct the flow,where which heat would have to happen to create the steam to begin with. How hot are commerical dishwashers? Unless there were munchkins in the dishwasher with steam valves spraying every dish with steam, like we would get gum off a sidewalk, use hot or hotter water to clean dishes.
But, that's just me. We have the abilty to create a steam cabinet in a diswasher, but is that what the pots, pans and dishes need? We could create a pressure cooker enviornment, which might be different,but that would require much venting and safety measures.

Steam is a result of boiling hot water to 212 degrees, so design a dishwasher to handle that temperature and by all means steam away.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Doesn't matter how you load the LG, the steam makes its way everywhere. Doesn't need to be under pressure or blasted at any surface. Phil, why don't you go out and get yourself one so you can comment intelligently on it?? Until then, all you're doing is guessing as to how it works. Bottom line - it works and it works well.

 

[stevet]

K/A vs Bosch Capacity

Not to mislead anyone here, we are talking about the SMU4092 which I have and that is the unit without the internal water delivery system to the top rack. It has the overhead supply down the funnel tube on top.
But the lower rack can hold a good deal of dishware but the top is too small to really hold alot of cups and glasses as well as bowls and such because of that damned funnel. But once again, it does clean everything I can throw at it.
Andrew, Your LG reminds me of the Whirlpool design with that sump and believe me, you can only imagine what can get down in there and screw up the pump. You and I and most people on here would naturally be careful with what they throw into their dishwashers but as a servicer, I can tell you that both the domestic and commercial machines are considered garbage disposals by most people. Yeah soft food disposers can take care of many foodstuffs but they dont do bones and pits and glass. Even the venerable Kitchenaids with the 21 series pumps and disposers in them couldn't handle some of the stuff I have pulled out of machines, especially domestic ones!

And I am aware of the extended the water heating times with my 20 and 21 daily drivers as I do have them filling to max levels so that adds time tonce I get the water circulation pump installed that should help cut down the times regardless of what machine brand I use!
The Bosch probably uses less than 1/3 that fill amount so of course it will heat faster as would your LG.

When Irene cooks alot, I try to BOB LOAD the 21 and she has a fit. Yet everything still comes out clean! But I don't have to remind you how attached she is to those Kitchenaid racks!So any changeout would be hard to do.
I might throw the Bosch in for a while under the pretense of back converting the 21 into a KDS18 again.

Hmmm. Maybe the Miele with the same rack configuration would work! Now I just have to get another job to afford one!