cyclemonitor
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a comparison
GE Super Racks
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cyclemonitor
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GE!
Excellent AD - problem is they didn't load the other ones correctly. I never remember seeing this ad before!
Excellent AD - problem is they didn't load the other ones correctly. I never remember seeing this ad before!
I remember seeing this ad and thinking the same thing as peteski50. At the time of this ad my partner at the time and myself had a Maytag. I never had a problem getting the broiler pan to fit in. In fact I never had a problem not getting anything in and being able to load it to the gills and everything always came out super clean.
GE!
Their mistake was they should have kept the potscrubber2 design. That dial a rack in my openion was the best.
Their mistake was they should have kept the potscrubber2 design. That dial a rack in my openion was the best.
cornutt
Well-known member
I assume this is from the '70s, given the font used for the words "Super Racks". Interesting that, unlike the "Maytag vs. Whirlpool" one, this one doesn't name the competing brands. Prior to 1970 or so the government didn't allow advertisers to mention competing brands by name, but that had changed by the mid-70s (I seem to recall there was a First Amendment court case about it).
Loading!
Actually the more I thought about it the more it bothered me. I have loaded all the above dishwashers at one time or other. I loaded broiler pans in all except the maytag. On the whirlpool you were able to adjust the upper rack to allow you to prop the broiler pans to the right or left side, and or in the rear of DW. On the Kenmore D&M I remember loading the slatted narrow side on the left standing up so the arm wouldnt hit it. The bottom portion of the pan to the right of the bottom rack but facing the silver ware basket tilted foward to the right also clearing the arm. CR claimed they couldnt take large glasses on top but I got wine glasses in it by tilting foward with the bottom of glasses propped upward. Now for kitchenaid the easiest of all. On my parents kds19 I lifted up the top rack on the right and the broiler pans fit with ease. Even though I still liked the GE the above was still easy if you knew what you were doing. GE you should have kept the potscrubber2 design!
Actually the more I thought about it the more it bothered me. I have loaded all the above dishwashers at one time or other. I loaded broiler pans in all except the maytag. On the whirlpool you were able to adjust the upper rack to allow you to prop the broiler pans to the right or left side, and or in the rear of DW. On the Kenmore D&M I remember loading the slatted narrow side on the left standing up so the arm wouldnt hit it. The bottom portion of the pan to the right of the bottom rack but facing the silver ware basket tilted foward to the right also clearing the arm. CR claimed they couldnt take large glasses on top but I got wine glasses in it by tilting foward with the bottom of glasses propped upward. Now for kitchenaid the easiest of all. On my parents kds19 I lifted up the top rack on the right and the broiler pans fit with ease. Even though I still liked the GE the above was still easy if you knew what you were doing. GE you should have kept the potscrubber2 design!
OK, I'm gonna chime in here cuz I'm tired of keepin my damn mouth shut. Peter, I like my Kenpool Tall Tub, but I wil tell you, even with the top rack raised in the high position, I have some cookie shets that I still cannot easily place in the machine without corntortions of tilting because of thee damn spray arm under the top rack. I get really pissed cuz I end up wasting some space. With my GE as shown above, I didn't have any problem getting them in as well as all my other baking stuff. Of all the machines, GE is definitely the easiest without having to go through dish contortions. Peter, how you describe lloading a D&M is still a PITA with wine glass contortions and tilting. MOST average users are not gouing to go to that degree of effort and will wash the wine glasses by hand, especially if it eats up space. I have friends with a tiltable upper rack in a WP Powerclean. They have like 11.5" dinner plates that are quite hefty. They still end up being tilted so the damn spray arm can rotate for the upper rack. Not everyone can afford or wish to opt for a Superba or a WP with adjustable top racks. And that's the only way you can have some flexibility with either or those machines. Now, here are som fallacies that I see in the GE above. Witht he waay the two pieces of the broiler pan are loadeed, I question as to whether they would get adequately clean and full adequte water on all surfaces with the pieces so close together. As far as the top rack, it's not wrapped in total reality. Note the wide plats and such loaded in the center of the top rack. They really eat into the row space on either side of those sets of tines. The glasses on the right side of those plates ae pretty small and not very wide. If the glasses were any wider, you couldn't load stuff like that down the center row and still expect to have 4 rows of glasses or cups/mugs. And the same way with the wine glasses. You'd have to have dinner guests who didn't drink a lot of liquids during their meal or constantly be filling water & wine glasses due to small capacity of liquids. That's not erality in my world. For this reason, I never put stuff like that down the center row in the top rack, just ate up too much rack real estate space. This ad was undoubtedly put together for GE's benefit. But I think with some addded thought and such, all the other brands could have accommodated just about everything. and Todd, you are most gracious. I probably could have gotten all this stuff in, except for the reverse rack Maytag. I don't think I could have done it all either. And as far as my friends with the PowerClean, it may be a great dishwasher, but to me it's got the worst of all combinations. The upper spray arm and adjustable rack with still imited clearance under the top rack as well as the damn nozzle thingy ihn the middle of the bottom rack to feed the upper spray arm. Talk about major frustration at times. I've been known to curse a blue streek at it. and the last time I looked at the Sears web site last September, the version of the last of the PowerCleans (Kenmore) did NOT have an adjustable upper rack any longer. Scks big time. I remember combo52 making a comment everyone should go out a buy one of these and keep it in storage and have it available when these are no longer made. When I discovered no adjustable upper rack for this model any longer, killed my thought about it.
I have found when loading dishwashers with which I was not familiar that I could not fit as much in as the owners who were accustomed to loading the items they used into the machines that they had. In the early 80s, John and Jeff showed me how to fit things in a WP in ways that did not occur to me in my initial loading of it, but they were using it every day and had found loading secrets.
I notice an awful lot of wasted vertical space in the bottom rack of the KA pictured because I am accustomed to loading things in it. I hope those competing brands were not loaded by GE engineers. For all of the spatial imagination it looks like was used in loading the machines, they must have been loaded by people who were concentrating on holding a greased penny in their nether cheeks with the promise of a severe punishment if they dropped it.[this post was last edited: 2/12/2011-17:50]
I notice an awful lot of wasted vertical space in the bottom rack of the KA pictured because I am accustomed to loading things in it. I hope those competing brands were not loaded by GE engineers. For all of the spatial imagination it looks like was used in loading the machines, they must have been loaded by people who were concentrating on holding a greased penny in their nether cheeks with the promise of a severe punishment if they dropped it.[this post was last edited: 2/12/2011-17:50]
Racking!
Even though I never put a broiler pan and grid in a maytag here is a arguement for them!
Even though I never put a broiler pan and grid in a maytag here is a arguement for them!
Tom, combining a couple of threads here--the Hotpoint in the other thread did have poor clearance for even normal glasses. I had a late 60s version in my first apartment in college in fall of 1974. My best friend from high school's mom gave me a set of glasses when I moved into the apartment so they were very special to me. After a dinner party someone decided they were going to help me clean up, which I really didn't need. Unfortunately, they didn't load some glasses correctly and two got broken when they attempted to put the top rack in. So it hurt because of the sentimental value. If they'd not been broken, I'd still have a complete set of those glasses today--they are the onnly ones missing from the set. And I think about that every time I see4 a Hotpoint of that era. I honestly believe some people are bestowed with an uncanny ability to load dishwashers and get the most space out of them. And I believe you, Peter, Joh, Jeff, and myself are part of that set of individuals. I've known people who have lived with a dishwasher for years and they just simply never get the hang of it. Sometimes I'll tactfully ack if I can help when they are "finished" loading. They can be relly amazed once I'm through rearranging and add more. Even afterr I've accumulated pretty much a load and I have more stuff from say cooking a simply evening meal, it's pretty unusual for most everything to stay where they were put when initially loaded over the past few days.
And Peter, thanks for posting the above Maytag photo. I kinda remember that from when Ben posted it initially, I think. I kinda knew that's where I would have put the broiler piecs, on the outside left & right of the rack as shown. But I do question as to whether what's all on the right side the way it is, if pan/sheet in the middle of the 3 would get completely clean if extremely heavily soiled with the extra closeness of the pieces more toward the center. Just as in my own experience with my own GE dishwasher when attempted loading the broiler pan as show in the GE advertisement. That's all part of "BobLoading" Yep, getting as much in as possible and as unorthodox at times, but you know I'm going to end up putting stuff in that is far more extreme with food stuffs than the typical consumer. And the end result still has to yield clean vessels and materials in that load when finished.
As I've said, I do like my TT Kenpool Elite. And I can get a lot in it, but Iw ill have to say the inability to put anything substantial over the silverware basket(s) is frustrating. I pretty much usually managed to put a mixing bowl or pan or something on top of all the silverware just before turning the machine on. Never really had any cleaning issues at all with it crammed. Even stuff in the corner of the top rack. I pretty much looked at the silverware basket not having something on top of it as wasted spacfe when something wasn't over it. Same way with the "saucer" rack. Always was able to put something there in each load, it wasn't wasted space either. There were times it looked like there was just enough space for the telescoping tower to raise up through it's hole in the rack and that's it.
And Peter, thanks for posting the above Maytag photo. I kinda remember that from when Ben posted it initially, I think. I kinda knew that's where I would have put the broiler piecs, on the outside left & right of the rack as shown. But I do question as to whether what's all on the right side the way it is, if pan/sheet in the middle of the 3 would get completely clean if extremely heavily soiled with the extra closeness of the pieces more toward the center. Just as in my own experience with my own GE dishwasher when attempted loading the broiler pan as show in the GE advertisement. That's all part of "BobLoading" Yep, getting as much in as possible and as unorthodox at times, but you know I'm going to end up putting stuff in that is far more extreme with food stuffs than the typical consumer. And the end result still has to yield clean vessels and materials in that load when finished.
As I've said, I do like my TT Kenpool Elite. And I can get a lot in it, but Iw ill have to say the inability to put anything substantial over the silverware basket(s) is frustrating. I pretty much usually managed to put a mixing bowl or pan or something on top of all the silverware just before turning the machine on. Never really had any cleaning issues at all with it crammed. Even stuff in the corner of the top rack. I pretty much looked at the silverware basket not having something on top of it as wasted spacfe when something wasn't over it. Same way with the "saucer" rack. Always was able to put something there in each load, it wasn't wasted space either. There were times it looked like there was just enough space for the telescoping tower to raise up through it's hole in the rack and that's it.
I'll say it again:
I've put my opinion out there already on the so-called GE super racks. That top rack is, IMHO, one of the best, if not the best, upper racks ever designed for a FL dishwasher. Problem is/was, there was nothing super about that lame GE bottom rack which was the same basic design that they came out with in 1962. It was fine if you were still using standard coffee cups with saucers and what used to be called "China", but as we had all moved on, it became obsolete and unaccommodating. Compared to the elegantly designed octagonal bottom plate rack used in the GE pull-outs, that rack was a sad herald of the cheapness that was to come. The pins were flimsy and always misaligned, there was little or no accommodation of large or wide trays and pans. Feh!
I would like to provoke a thread on members' choice for the best bottom rack design. For my vote on vintage dishwashers, nothing, NOTHING, was better designed than the racks on the Maytag TL portable. It would be fun to poll opinions on contemporary machines, but it seems they've all evolved to a state of homogeneous dullness and whatever the word is for the opposite of ingenuity. That seems to be the problem with all contemporary appliances: they all seem to evolve into the same damn thing. Whereas there is increasing diversity and variety in the wild places of the world, the American kitchen has become a showcase of boring conventionality. Avocado green is looking better and better to me.
I've put my opinion out there already on the so-called GE super racks. That top rack is, IMHO, one of the best, if not the best, upper racks ever designed for a FL dishwasher. Problem is/was, there was nothing super about that lame GE bottom rack which was the same basic design that they came out with in 1962. It was fine if you were still using standard coffee cups with saucers and what used to be called "China", but as we had all moved on, it became obsolete and unaccommodating. Compared to the elegantly designed octagonal bottom plate rack used in the GE pull-outs, that rack was a sad herald of the cheapness that was to come. The pins were flimsy and always misaligned, there was little or no accommodation of large or wide trays and pans. Feh!
I would like to provoke a thread on members' choice for the best bottom rack design. For my vote on vintage dishwashers, nothing, NOTHING, was better designed than the racks on the Maytag TL portable. It would be fun to poll opinions on contemporary machines, but it seems they've all evolved to a state of homogeneous dullness and whatever the word is for the opposite of ingenuity. That seems to be the problem with all contemporary appliances: they all seem to evolve into the same damn thing. Whereas there is increasing diversity and variety in the wild places of the world, the American kitchen has become a showcase of boring conventionality. Avocado green is looking better and better to me.
There was only one thing I wish could have been modified in that upper rack but I doubt it really coud have been done. On the left side, the outer row was kind of "boxed" in. You were limited as to just how thick of a glass you could put there. I wish there was a way you could remove the rigid "fence" that separated that row from the next row in to allow for thicker mugs and such when needed. There were times I'd get frustrated in trying to find things which could fit in that row. Glass measuring cups couldn't fit. And when baking and such, there were times I had a difficult time putting stuff in that row and it was wasted space.
Ken, I think the only real distinction of the SuperRack bottom rack is the tines weren't simiply straight "sticks" that you put dishes between, compared to the lower-end GE models. They were curved/sorta had a crook to them, hard to explain. The last set of dishes my mom got that were for everyday were these very thick, hefty ironstone dishes from Service Merchandise. They have quite a large diameter and are very thick. With the GE tines designed such as they are, the plates always stood upright in the bottom rack, they never fell over while sliding the bottom rack in and out. (They would have never fit in the RotoRack because they were too big in diameter and wouldn't have cleared the top rack (even with it in the raised position) and they would have had to be tipped over to clear the rack, not a good thing for big dinner plates) I acquired these dishes after my parents retirement living apartment was dismantled when my dad went to assited living. The plates are so tall in my TT Kenmore Elite that I have to raise the upper rack to the higher position for the upper spray arm to clear--I don't like having the upper rack in this position actually. So that's one strike against them with my current dishwasher. the other thing is, they being kinda "top heavy", unless loaded in a certain way in the tines, they will topple over sometimes in the course of pulling the bottom rack in & out and I"m not one for moving it very fast. I'm pretty slow with moving the bottom rack. So them toppling over tendencty is another strike against them.
I actually have chosen all my dishes because they will fit nicely in any brand of dishwasher. I would never select any of the stuff that has come out in recent decades with cereal bowls which are deep and curve up on the side. Hard to describe. Why, because these bowls don't fit well in any dishwasher without taking up a lot of space for each one. You can't stack them in a row of tin4es. They have to be placed on the side or on their side inbetween rows of tines in the bottom rack such as a small deep casserole dish. Wasted space and very impractical, no thank you!! I want my dishes to fit orderly and organized in a dishwasher and not have to be arrang3ed in a special way that takes up a lot of room for each piece. And cereal bowls are the worst.
[this post was last edited: 2/12/2011-23:08]
Ken, I think the only real distinction of the SuperRack bottom rack is the tines weren't simiply straight "sticks" that you put dishes between, compared to the lower-end GE models. They were curved/sorta had a crook to them, hard to explain. The last set of dishes my mom got that were for everyday were these very thick, hefty ironstone dishes from Service Merchandise. They have quite a large diameter and are very thick. With the GE tines designed such as they are, the plates always stood upright in the bottom rack, they never fell over while sliding the bottom rack in and out. (They would have never fit in the RotoRack because they were too big in diameter and wouldn't have cleared the top rack (even with it in the raised position) and they would have had to be tipped over to clear the rack, not a good thing for big dinner plates) I acquired these dishes after my parents retirement living apartment was dismantled when my dad went to assited living. The plates are so tall in my TT Kenmore Elite that I have to raise the upper rack to the higher position for the upper spray arm to clear--I don't like having the upper rack in this position actually. So that's one strike against them with my current dishwasher. the other thing is, they being kinda "top heavy", unless loaded in a certain way in the tines, they will topple over sometimes in the course of pulling the bottom rack in & out and I"m not one for moving it very fast. I'm pretty slow with moving the bottom rack. So them toppling over tendencty is another strike against them.
I actually have chosen all my dishes because they will fit nicely in any brand of dishwasher. I would never select any of the stuff that has come out in recent decades with cereal bowls which are deep and curve up on the side. Hard to describe. Why, because these bowls don't fit well in any dishwasher without taking up a lot of space for each one. You can't stack them in a row of tin4es. They have to be placed on the side or on their side inbetween rows of tines in the bottom rack such as a small deep casserole dish. Wasted space and very impractical, no thank you!! I want my dishes to fit orderly and organized in a dishwasher and not have to be arrang3ed in a special way that takes up a lot of room for each piece. And cereal bowls are the worst.
[this post was last edited: 2/12/2011-23:08]
Ken, I agree with you about capacity for plates and saucers with bowls and saucepans in the corners. The last of the Westinghouse Roll Outs had a similar lower rack. By the time I got another GE, I had been spoiled by my KDS18 and was amazed by the GE's restricted loading, although it held more preparation things like the Cuisinart bowls and such than the KDS14. When I had company, I found it better to to put the tableware in the 14 and all of the preparation pieces in the 18. It is amazing how much I thought we put in the GE when I was younger, but it does not hold a lot of odd pieces.
Interesting comments. I've had personal experience with this GE, the KitchenAid in the photo, a Whirlpool power clean (my current one), a Whirlpool tall-tub, and a late'80s White Westinghouse Filter Clean. Best for large sheet pans/cookie sheets was actually the White-Westinghouse. It had a couple of low loops on the sides of the bottom rack (not full-length tines) which, combined with only a turret, made for a lot of flexibility in angle for the largest dishes, but because they were low, you could just pop a 13x9 pan or a Corning Ware dish or a skillet right on top of the low loop. The low loop would just catch the rim/edge of the tall flat pan, or would catch the rim of the plate.
This GE's top rack was best...again, it had the low rear tines in the top rack which allowed many sizes of cereal bowls to fit easily. The Whirlpool I've got now can take Corelle cereal bowls in the top rack...you can tell they sculpted the tines in the center front to handle them, yet struggles with my cookie sheets b/c of the top spray arm. I also haven't mastered how to load to ensure clean silverware.
My parents have the Whirlpool tall-tub and I find it terrible to deal with...everything is clanging around and I find it very unpleasant to load.
The main thing I think they need to think about are the height of the tines throughout the dishwasher. I think it would make life much easier if they had a variety of heights (note the GE and W-W experiences) to be able to handle all items.
This GE's top rack was best...again, it had the low rear tines in the top rack which allowed many sizes of cereal bowls to fit easily. The Whirlpool I've got now can take Corelle cereal bowls in the top rack...you can tell they sculpted the tines in the center front to handle them, yet struggles with my cookie sheets b/c of the top spray arm. I also haven't mastered how to load to ensure clean silverware.
My parents have the Whirlpool tall-tub and I find it terrible to deal with...everything is clanging around and I find it very unpleasant to load.
The main thing I think they need to think about are the height of the tines throughout the dishwasher. I think it would make life much easier if they had a variety of heights (note the GE and W-W experiences) to be able to handle all items.
cyclemonitor
Well-known member
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KitchenAid Lower Rack
The rack shows 3 sections of v shaped tines, I have had this system in a previous model. I found it was very versatile.
All were removable and the first 2 could be interchanged. Has any one else used this form?
Whirlpool/ KitchenAid had a arch system that flipped and supposedly could accommodate bowls. I have had that....I did not like it!
This is a comparison brochure I have with a Bosch
The rack shows 3 sections of v shaped tines, I have had this system in a previous model. I found it was very versatile.
All were removable and the first 2 could be interchanged. Has any one else used this form?
Whirlpool/ KitchenAid had a arch system that flipped and supposedly could accommodate bowls. I have had that....I did not like it!
This is a comparison brochure I have with a Bosch
For total tub height and flexibility, you can't beat a KD2p. This top loading portable has a three section top rack--middle and two side sections. You can leave any or all out depending on what you are loading. For cookie sheets, if you take out one side section, you can stand up two cookie sheets on end, in the pins at the side of the lower rack. Because you don't have to slide the racks in and out like with the front loading machine, you can load this one almost like a washing machine. Big mixing bowls can rest on top of plates in the lower rack to up beyond the position of the top rack and if you have a few glasses or mugs, you can leave one of the side sections in to accommodate them. You can slide the center section to one side or the other if you want to make more room for taller things.
I advanced the timer to start it at the rinses to heat up the machine, then turned it back to start for the wash. After the purge, I would slightly lift the lid and dump in the detergent I had measured into a cooking spoon or something else sort of flat, the let it go. The wash is only 5 minutes, so if things are really dirty, I would stop it before the drain and give it another wash. To get best results from it, you have to do a little manual dial moving, but if you got that machine properly warmed up, it was a cleaning power house.
I advanced the timer to start it at the rinses to heat up the machine, then turned it back to start for the wash. After the purge, I would slightly lift the lid and dump in the detergent I had measured into a cooking spoon or something else sort of flat, the let it go. The wash is only 5 minutes, so if things are really dirty, I would stop it before the drain and give it another wash. To get best results from it, you have to do a little manual dial moving, but if you got that machine properly warmed up, it was a cleaning power house.
SuperRacks
Interesting comments all. I thought the SuperRacks in the Potscrubber III we had were nifty except for the fenced area on the left, as Bob pointed out. I ended up chucking utensils in there, because none of our glass tumblers fit. I'm not sure why they felt they needed that area done-up that way; they changed it later on.
Still, my thought on the SuperRacks was always this: Is a convex rack the best design for a tower system, when it makes it triply difficult to ensure good coverage at the corners? Shouldn't the corners and far side cant down and in, to ensure it aligns (more or less) with the angled spray from the tower?
It sure does make it hold a lot of stuff, but it's not a design I'd trust for tall glasses in the far reaches.
Oh, and as for that Maytag ad, I want to go in on that pool that the second muffin tray on the right even saw water, much less got clean. ;-)
Interesting comments all. I thought the SuperRacks in the Potscrubber III we had were nifty except for the fenced area on the left, as Bob pointed out. I ended up chucking utensils in there, because none of our glass tumblers fit. I'm not sure why they felt they needed that area done-up that way; they changed it later on.
Still, my thought on the SuperRacks was always this: Is a convex rack the best design for a tower system, when it makes it triply difficult to ensure good coverage at the corners? Shouldn't the corners and far side cant down and in, to ensure it aligns (more or less) with the angled spray from the tower?
It sure does make it hold a lot of stuff, but it's not a design I'd trust for tall glasses in the far reaches.
Oh, and as for that Maytag ad, I want to go in on that pool that the second muffin tray on the right even saw water, much less got clean. ;-)
