My 2nd car was a 1980 Monte Carlo coupe. The first was an early 1970s Nova handed down from the grandmother. We called it the Green Bomb, not for any particular reason.
General Motors in the red.
- Thread starter knitwits1975
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Steve,
THANK YOU for pointing out the many reasons why you father's 1980 Diesel Cutlass lasted as long as it did. It was serviced by actual Diesel-savvy mechanics, used actual truck-stop diesel fuel, and was using the correct oil. Those three things are the many reasons why most other engines failed, as their OWNERS maintained (or lack there of) their Diesel Olds engine as a gasoline engine.
Ben
THANK YOU for pointing out the many reasons why you father's 1980 Diesel Cutlass lasted as long as it did. It was serviced by actual Diesel-savvy mechanics, used actual truck-stop diesel fuel, and was using the correct oil. Those three things are the many reasons why most other engines failed, as their OWNERS maintained (or lack there of) their Diesel Olds engine as a gasoline engine.
Ben
knitwits1975
Well-known member
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- Jul 22, 2005
- Messages
- 487
My mom's Delta 88 had about 190,000 miles before it finally puked. It could have been easily been overhauled if parts could have been found for less than a king's ransom (if at all), and a mechanic willing to work on it. NO ONE wanted to work on it, NO ONE, no matter how much money we were willing to throw at them. So sadly, a car that was otherwise in great shape just had to be scrapped.
pulsator-power
Well-known member
GM
Here's my rant. Have owned GM's for years. The Saturn SW2 we have now has it's moments. The last car was a Cavalier with 153,000 miles on it & it was raring to go. I retired it in favor of a 2006 Chevy HHR, which I really like. I bought it in October 05. Of course, the Employee discount program applied to 2005's. I paid full sticker price for the HHR, since it was right out of the box. In November, GM did the Red tag discount, and now thay are lowering prices on all models except Saturns. So I am pissed. Now the discounts apply to HHR's as well. Jerry
Here's my rant. Have owned GM's for years. The Saturn SW2 we have now has it's moments. The last car was a Cavalier with 153,000 miles on it & it was raring to go. I retired it in favor of a 2006 Chevy HHR, which I really like. I bought it in October 05. Of course, the Employee discount program applied to 2005's. I paid full sticker price for the HHR, since it was right out of the box. In November, GM did the Red tag discount, and now thay are lowering prices on all models except Saturns. So I am pissed. Now the discounts apply to HHR's as well. Jerry
As an enthuaists of GM products since I was a little one, I hate to seem them in the position they are in, and I wish I could put my two cents into the operation of their company.
GM's biggest problem I think is the fact that they keep trying to sell a full product line to each nameplate, instead of giving each nameplate it's own niche and character. Prior to the 1970's, each GM nameplate had it's own character, and many even designed their own engines and other mechanicals. GM's biggest problem is that their divisions seem to me to be a "me too" type of thing, selling vehicles just because someone else does, and not because they are innovative or popular. Here's my outline to the way GM should tune their product line:
Chevrolet: The only division that should feature a full product line of vehicles from pickups, SUV's, Vans, sedans, coupes, sports cars, etc. These vehicles should feature traditional American characteristics in vehicles, like rear drive. Styling should be attractive, but relatively subdued. Prices should be affordable, with a wide variety of optional equipment and features avaliable.
Saturn: Compact and mid-size vehicles in both coupes and sedans, sports cars, and car based SUV's. Saturn vehicles should be more Asian like as they have been in the past with features like front-wheel drive & MacPherson strut suspensions.
Pontiac: Full-size, mid-size, and compact sedans and coupes, and sports cars, pony cars and other "muscle" cars. Traditionally known as the performance division of Pontiac. It has been caught up in making gawdily styled vehicles that lack the critical performance factor. Pontiacs should styled to be sporty, but not too tacky. Pontiacs DO need to have powerful engines, tight suspensions, manual transmissions, and other performance goodies. Large cars need to be rear drive, and V8 based, playing up the classic Musclecar theme that made Pontiac famous. Smaller sedans and coupes can be front-drive to take a piece of the "rice rocket" market, while sports cars can be mid-engined, or front-engined /rear drive to be similar to traditional sports cars from Europe. Pontiac does NOT need to be selling car and truck based SUV's, Minivans, wagons, or any other type of utilitarian type vehicle that can water down the performance image. (Astec anyone?)
Oldsmobile. Yes, I know GM doesn't sell under the Oldsmobile nameplate, but why not? It's got a great heritage and history. This division needs to be selling full-size and mid-sized sedans and coupes, along with station wagons, minivans, and car based SUV's. Oldsmobile used to be GM's technology devision, and the place where GM would showcase their latest designs before they trickled down into other divisions. The trick was GM put this technology and modern styling into the utilitarian type vehicles that moved our families and commuters everday making driving more comfortable and convenient. Oldsmobile should NOT be selling sports cars, compact vehicles that aren't all that utilitarian. Truck based SUV's and other vehicles water down the high-tech image of the company too, as most people see trucks as not very technologically advanced.
Buick: Full sized sedans, coupes, wagons, minivans, and maybe even truck based SUV's. Buick traditionally has an "old man" image, but it could easily move in on Mercedes Benz's luxury sedan territory with a refinement in suspension technology, and an increase in engine refinement and performance. Ripping off Cadillac's Northstar engine is a step towards this, but Mercedes needs to be using full-frame rear-drive platforms with fully independent suspensions just like the rest of the luxury car market does like M-B, Lexus, infiniti, etc.
Cadillac: One of the only divisions of GM that has actually hit the market nail right on the head! Cadillac should have a wide range of high-end vehicles avaliable like cars of all sizes, truck based SUV's, and even sports cars. They are actually building all of these, and are selling them reasonably good. The only issue with Cadillac is that it should not be installing un-refined Chevy engines in their SUV's, but should design their own version of the Northstar that would power the SUV's...like it did with the XLR sports car.
GMC-Truck: Selling nothing but trucks, and truck based vehicles! No front-drive minivans or other car based vehicles
Here's how the vehicle platforms would square up:
Small sports car: Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn
Ponycar musclecar: Chevy, Pontiac
Larger sports car: Cadillac, Chevrolet, maybe Pontiac
front-drive compact sedan/coupe: Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saturn
rear-drive compact sedan/coupe: Cadillac, Buick maybe
Front drive mid-size: Chevy, Saturn
Rear-drive mid-size: Olds, buick, Cadillac
Full-size rear-drive: Chevy, Pontiac, Olds
premium rear-drive platform: Cadillac, Buick
car-based minivan: Olds, Buick, Chevrolet
Car based SUV's: chevy, olds, buick, Saturn
Truck Based minivan: Chevy, GMC
Truck Based SUV's: Chevrolet, GMC, Buick maybe, Cadillac
Each division should be able to develop it's own unique engine design. It can be shared among a few similar divisions, but not all 5. For instance, the Chevy "Small-block" V8's and V6's can be shared with Pontiac, Pontiac could also develop a high performance "rice rocket" motor that could also be shared with Saturn
As you can see, there's no "6 flavors" like they are currently building, and most platforms are only built among 3 product nameplates. Yes, you probably see some correlations to currently offered GM products, like the new Pontiac Solstice & Saturn Sky, or the unique to Cadillac CTS rear-drive mid sized platform. I included these because they seem to be the places where GM is doing it right...GM would have a heckuva time trying to sell the hot CTS if they also sold it as a Chevy! Why would someone want to buy an over-priced Chevy...that's what they gotta think about, along with other products that weaken the nameplate's image!
GM's biggest problem I think is the fact that they keep trying to sell a full product line to each nameplate, instead of giving each nameplate it's own niche and character. Prior to the 1970's, each GM nameplate had it's own character, and many even designed their own engines and other mechanicals. GM's biggest problem is that their divisions seem to me to be a "me too" type of thing, selling vehicles just because someone else does, and not because they are innovative or popular. Here's my outline to the way GM should tune their product line:
Chevrolet: The only division that should feature a full product line of vehicles from pickups, SUV's, Vans, sedans, coupes, sports cars, etc. These vehicles should feature traditional American characteristics in vehicles, like rear drive. Styling should be attractive, but relatively subdued. Prices should be affordable, with a wide variety of optional equipment and features avaliable.
Saturn: Compact and mid-size vehicles in both coupes and sedans, sports cars, and car based SUV's. Saturn vehicles should be more Asian like as they have been in the past with features like front-wheel drive & MacPherson strut suspensions.
Pontiac: Full-size, mid-size, and compact sedans and coupes, and sports cars, pony cars and other "muscle" cars. Traditionally known as the performance division of Pontiac. It has been caught up in making gawdily styled vehicles that lack the critical performance factor. Pontiacs should styled to be sporty, but not too tacky. Pontiacs DO need to have powerful engines, tight suspensions, manual transmissions, and other performance goodies. Large cars need to be rear drive, and V8 based, playing up the classic Musclecar theme that made Pontiac famous. Smaller sedans and coupes can be front-drive to take a piece of the "rice rocket" market, while sports cars can be mid-engined, or front-engined /rear drive to be similar to traditional sports cars from Europe. Pontiac does NOT need to be selling car and truck based SUV's, Minivans, wagons, or any other type of utilitarian type vehicle that can water down the performance image. (Astec anyone?)
Oldsmobile. Yes, I know GM doesn't sell under the Oldsmobile nameplate, but why not? It's got a great heritage and history. This division needs to be selling full-size and mid-sized sedans and coupes, along with station wagons, minivans, and car based SUV's. Oldsmobile used to be GM's technology devision, and the place where GM would showcase their latest designs before they trickled down into other divisions. The trick was GM put this technology and modern styling into the utilitarian type vehicles that moved our families and commuters everday making driving more comfortable and convenient. Oldsmobile should NOT be selling sports cars, compact vehicles that aren't all that utilitarian. Truck based SUV's and other vehicles water down the high-tech image of the company too, as most people see trucks as not very technologically advanced.
Buick: Full sized sedans, coupes, wagons, minivans, and maybe even truck based SUV's. Buick traditionally has an "old man" image, but it could easily move in on Mercedes Benz's luxury sedan territory with a refinement in suspension technology, and an increase in engine refinement and performance. Ripping off Cadillac's Northstar engine is a step towards this, but Mercedes needs to be using full-frame rear-drive platforms with fully independent suspensions just like the rest of the luxury car market does like M-B, Lexus, infiniti, etc.
Cadillac: One of the only divisions of GM that has actually hit the market nail right on the head! Cadillac should have a wide range of high-end vehicles avaliable like cars of all sizes, truck based SUV's, and even sports cars. They are actually building all of these, and are selling them reasonably good. The only issue with Cadillac is that it should not be installing un-refined Chevy engines in their SUV's, but should design their own version of the Northstar that would power the SUV's...like it did with the XLR sports car.
GMC-Truck: Selling nothing but trucks, and truck based vehicles! No front-drive minivans or other car based vehicles
Here's how the vehicle platforms would square up:
Small sports car: Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn
Ponycar musclecar: Chevy, Pontiac
Larger sports car: Cadillac, Chevrolet, maybe Pontiac
front-drive compact sedan/coupe: Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saturn
rear-drive compact sedan/coupe: Cadillac, Buick maybe
Front drive mid-size: Chevy, Saturn
Rear-drive mid-size: Olds, buick, Cadillac
Full-size rear-drive: Chevy, Pontiac, Olds
premium rear-drive platform: Cadillac, Buick
car-based minivan: Olds, Buick, Chevrolet
Car based SUV's: chevy, olds, buick, Saturn
Truck Based minivan: Chevy, GMC
Truck Based SUV's: Chevrolet, GMC, Buick maybe, Cadillac
Each division should be able to develop it's own unique engine design. It can be shared among a few similar divisions, but not all 5. For instance, the Chevy "Small-block" V8's and V6's can be shared with Pontiac, Pontiac could also develop a high performance "rice rocket" motor that could also be shared with Saturn
As you can see, there's no "6 flavors" like they are currently building, and most platforms are only built among 3 product nameplates. Yes, you probably see some correlations to currently offered GM products, like the new Pontiac Solstice & Saturn Sky, or the unique to Cadillac CTS rear-drive mid sized platform. I included these because they seem to be the places where GM is doing it right...GM would have a heckuva time trying to sell the hot CTS if they also sold it as a Chevy! Why would someone want to buy an over-priced Chevy...that's what they gotta think about, along with other products that weaken the nameplate's image!
super32
Well-known member
GM in the 80's
cybervanr
I here your point. To me it looks like GM is going backwards. It seems like they went through this in the 80's. Everything was a cookie cutter. The same car in tooooo many nameplates. Cimarron anyone? Ford came out with the Taurus/Sable in 87 or 86? It was different, not my choice in vehicals even though I did later own a few. But, as strange as they looked everybody knew what it was. It was a Taurus, not I think its a Cadillac, but wait maybe its a cavalier. It was a simular situation with Chrysler in the 80's. Chrysler didnt invent the mini van but in the 80's everybody knew who made it.
Scott
cybervanr
I here your point. To me it looks like GM is going backwards. It seems like they went through this in the 80's. Everything was a cookie cutter. The same car in tooooo many nameplates. Cimarron anyone? Ford came out with the Taurus/Sable in 87 or 86? It was different, not my choice in vehicals even though I did later own a few. But, as strange as they looked everybody knew what it was. It was a Taurus, not I think its a Cadillac, but wait maybe its a cavalier. It was a simular situation with Chrysler in the 80's. Chrysler didnt invent the mini van but in the 80's everybody knew who made it.
Scott
myhooverco
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2006
- Messages
- 234
I have three words for GM...quality quality quality. They had better wake up or go the way of those long forgotten companies. I have always owned GM cars and trucks. My family bought GM or bought nothing. I own two vintage Oldsmobiles. I currently drive an '03 Olds Alero. My wife has had 2 Chevy S-10's which were fine. I have had a '96 Saturn, '98 Malibu, '99 Metro 4 door, and now my Alero.
The only good vehicle was the Metro. The rest are just junk. Saturn is NO different than any other division. The dealer was awful. They bought my Saturn back. It suffered from major engine issues and was rebuilt at their expense. The Malibu was no better. I went to a different dealer for the Olds and it has been a nightmare too with things that just seem to fall off for no reason especially trim and the hood!
We had a son in January and traded our truck for an "ugly" as they have been called Honda Element. In the year that has followed, the Element has been true to Honda's reputation. It is roomy (great for hauling vac's and other cool stuff), economical, and great for the family. Nothing has fallen off and my wife is HARD on a vehicle too. My Alero in the past year with less than 25,000 miles has suffered a separated hood hinge, bad calipers and rotor, broken ventilation knob (I had no defroster in Ohio in Feb!!!), and an automatic transmission that would not shift out of first gear...ever try to go somewhere in first gear. Not to mention the dealer lost the car...they had no idea where it went. Then they lost the key and did not rekey the car. I even had lug nuts that the dealer stripped and I had to pay to have replaced. What did they give me to drive during this time? A Cadillac CTS that used the SAME winshield washer stalk as my car...talk about a rattle trap at 16,000 miles.
I have had no satifaction from GM. 3 strikes and you are out. GM needs to wake up. When my Olds is paid for if not sooner I am on my way to the Honda dealer for one of those spiffy new Civics. I just want to get from point A to B with no surprises or things falling apart. As far as I am concerned GM is dead!
Oh...our Honda is made here in Ohio! Again GM quality quality quality!!!!
The only good vehicle was the Metro. The rest are just junk. Saturn is NO different than any other division. The dealer was awful. They bought my Saturn back. It suffered from major engine issues and was rebuilt at their expense. The Malibu was no better. I went to a different dealer for the Olds and it has been a nightmare too with things that just seem to fall off for no reason especially trim and the hood!
We had a son in January and traded our truck for an "ugly" as they have been called Honda Element. In the year that has followed, the Element has been true to Honda's reputation. It is roomy (great for hauling vac's and other cool stuff), economical, and great for the family. Nothing has fallen off and my wife is HARD on a vehicle too. My Alero in the past year with less than 25,000 miles has suffered a separated hood hinge, bad calipers and rotor, broken ventilation knob (I had no defroster in Ohio in Feb!!!), and an automatic transmission that would not shift out of first gear...ever try to go somewhere in first gear. Not to mention the dealer lost the car...they had no idea where it went. Then they lost the key and did not rekey the car. I even had lug nuts that the dealer stripped and I had to pay to have replaced. What did they give me to drive during this time? A Cadillac CTS that used the SAME winshield washer stalk as my car...talk about a rattle trap at 16,000 miles.
I have had no satifaction from GM. 3 strikes and you are out. GM needs to wake up. When my Olds is paid for if not sooner I am on my way to the Honda dealer for one of those spiffy new Civics. I just want to get from point A to B with no surprises or things falling apart. As far as I am concerned GM is dead!
Oh...our Honda is made here in Ohio! Again GM quality quality quality!!!!
knitwits1975
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2005
- Messages
- 487
Now Ford is planning to close plants and lay off workers.
Strange---The Japanese car builders are siting their car factories in the US,and the "Big Three" US car builders are shutting down their US car factories and buiding them where??I have seen to many and drove--some US carbuilders cars and have followed a freinds recommendation and went with Toyota.Have a Highlander at present on a lease-Plan to buy a Highlander Hybrid later this year.Drove one-Really neat car.The US car builders are going to have to get on the ball and update their models.They also have to be more flexible and able to change when the market changes-the Japanese and others seem more flexible.They can change their models faster.Also the US carbuilders are as one other person wrote-put some QUALITY back into their cars.Its sadly lacking-one person I know has a Chrysler "Barretta" and its falling apart-less then 3 years old.
It's the same thing electronics manufacturers are doing. Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi, JVC, and many others have plants located here in the USA to built some of their more higher end equipment. This is all the while classic American electronic companies like RCA, Zenith GE, Magnavox, etc have located their operations overseas. The quality shows, as these brands have become cheap, low-end brands at discount stores and are sinfully unreliable.
I'm trying to figure out the mentality behind building low end products. The Japanese companies have done pretty good making good higher end products here in the USA. Why haven't the American companies tried the follow the same course by improving the reliablitiy and build quality of their product. It's such a simple idea that a child could figure it out! Build it better, it will be more popular, and you can sell it for more, and MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
I'm trying to figure out the mentality behind building low end products. The Japanese companies have done pretty good making good higher end products here in the USA. Why haven't the American companies tried the follow the same course by improving the reliablitiy and build quality of their product. It's such a simple idea that a child could figure it out! Build it better, it will be more popular, and you can sell it for more, and MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
knitwits1975
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2005
- Messages
- 487
Another big problem is that the big three can't get their heads wrapped around the fact that most of the general population doesn't require or desire a vehicle with all the superficial bells and whistles to pamper and spoil. And while they are developing these items like dual climate control, on star, 500 horsepower etc....., the wiser Japanese and German markets are developing safer, more efficient, and more reliable autos. Meanwhile, back here at home, we watch ads for the new 500 horsepower whatever, 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. They just don't get it. The big three have targeted the upper middle class market for too long. After Hurricane Katrina, when fuel was nearing $5.00 a gallon, how many people honestly gave a rat shit how much rubber their car could burn. I hate to say it, but a 500 horsepower car with no fuel in it (because it's owner can't afford to fuel it) has ZERO horsepower. As much as I'd like to see Ford and General Motors stick around, if they don't wake up and smell the Mocha Latte, they don't deserve to stay in business. And if staying in business means they have to outsource the jobs to China to make the same cars cheaper, I'd just as soon let them go under.
Quality wasn't Job #1
Ok so my 2003 Mountaineer goes into the shop again. 32,000 miles on it. It's recently had the transmission overhauled, a trim piece replaced twice that was warped and causing a lot of wind noise, electrical issues with door/liftgate ajar. And now the climate control wasn't turning on and going into max heat/fan mode. Also a clunk sound in the front end. The clunk was the ball joints! They were replaced, and all other repairs done under warranty. But why is a relatively new car falling apart? The dealer wasn't happy over the climate control issue. We had a spirited discussion on how that works. Also see Jason's thread on how thermostats work. This is the second time in two weeks for that one. And the dealer's explaination, if it's not failing at the time you bring it in, we can't fix it. It's an intermitant problem, which means they'll actually have to do some work on it other than plugging in a test meter.
So, I'll give it another six months, then perhaps see what is going on sale late this summer. And for me, Volkswagen is looking pretty good!
Ok so my 2003 Mountaineer goes into the shop again. 32,000 miles on it. It's recently had the transmission overhauled, a trim piece replaced twice that was warped and causing a lot of wind noise, electrical issues with door/liftgate ajar. And now the climate control wasn't turning on and going into max heat/fan mode. Also a clunk sound in the front end. The clunk was the ball joints! They were replaced, and all other repairs done under warranty. But why is a relatively new car falling apart? The dealer wasn't happy over the climate control issue. We had a spirited discussion on how that works. Also see Jason's thread on how thermostats work. This is the second time in two weeks for that one. And the dealer's explaination, if it's not failing at the time you bring it in, we can't fix it. It's an intermitant problem, which means they'll actually have to do some work on it other than plugging in a test meter.
So, I'll give it another six months, then perhaps see what is going on sale late this summer. And for me, Volkswagen is looking pretty good!
Cybervanr:Another reason the Japanese and other electronic equipment builders are siting here-its cheaper to pay the import taxes on the COMPONENTS than the finished product.I too have bought mostly Japanese Hi-Fi and Audio-video equipment lately. New Zenith TV's aren't worth the powder needed to blow them up.they are just a circuit board in a cabinet with the pix tube and a speaker.--thats it mostly air.At one workplace they bought Zenith TV's-couldn't repair them when they broke.Another weird thing-the Japanese folks LOVE vintage American tube Hi-Fi components-several years ago I was trying to sell some speakers-a Japanese buyer showed up to look at them-Instead he asked if I wanted to sell my McIntosh tube amps--Told him no.Still have them-they need new elec trolytic caps.
Knitwits1975: I don't get the "horsepower race" either-some car companies still hooked on this-watch the ads for pickups and SUV's on TV-even the "preshow" ads at the movie theater.the first thing they tout is the HORSEPOWER of the car.As you say-what good is that high HP motor if you can't put gas in the tank?You would think the high gas prices would reduce interest in oversized car engines.Some people may need them-those that haul a lot and pull trailers.
Knitwits1975: I don't get the "horsepower race" either-some car companies still hooked on this-watch the ads for pickups and SUV's on TV-even the "preshow" ads at the movie theater.the first thing they tout is the HORSEPOWER of the car.As you say-what good is that high HP motor if you can't put gas in the tank?You would think the high gas prices would reduce interest in oversized car engines.Some people may need them-those that haul a lot and pull trailers.
Here in Au, Holden manufactures only one basic platform, the rest of their range is imported. The Holden Commodore is the family size sedan and wagon, a coupe version is the Monaro, exported to USA as the Pontiac GTO.
The smaller Holdens since the mid 90s have been sourced from Europe, the first model of these Opel-sourced Holdens was the Barina, which is called the Opel Corsa in Europe. It is assembled in Spain, It's a tiny 1.4 litre hatchback. My partner has a 99 model, and it is a fantastic little car. Veery reliable and a nimble delight to drive. The other models were the Astra, (Opel Astra) which is a 1.8 litre sedan and hatch, and the Vectra which was a 2 litre sedan, hatch or wagon. The Vectra was assembled in Aus in 99 and 2000 but when Commodore sales increased factory went back to assembling Commodores only and Vectras became imported again, from Belgium.
These late 90s Opel sourced Holdens were very well liked here and sold well. They have all been replaced with new versions, a new Barina in 2001, a new Vectra in 2003 and a new Astra in 2005. They have all been a step up-market, more expensive (in 2003 the old Vectra was $26000, the new model was $35000 !!) and in my opinion they are all ugly. The new Astra in particular is hideous. Sales have plummeted. The Barina sales halved over three years. Vectra sales did even worse. Astra sales weren't too bad as the old model stayed on, rebadged "Astra Classic" now made in Poland instead of Belgium. But is has been phased out now.
Holden are now sourcing their smaller models out of Korea, rebadging Daewoos. The old Daewoo Kalos is the "new" Barina, and the old Daewoo Lacetti is now badged as a Holden Viva. The Vectra is due to be replaced by a Daewoo sourced car too. These cars are complete junk and are being caned by the press. Surely these cars will squander the good reputation Holden has built up with their smaller cars over the last ten years or so.
Sad news for me as I particularly like these "Opel Holdens" and I am currently looking to buy a 2000 Vectra wagon, if I can find one.
And don't get me started on Mitsubishi. My current car is a 93 Mitsubishi Magna, sold in USA as a Diamante. It is fabulous but getting old now. The later model, I have been looking at a 2002 model, has the following changes: 3.5 litre V6 motor (mine is 2.6 litre 4 cyl); auto trans only on wagons (mine is manual, I strongly prefer manual); no split-fold rear seat (my older car has it); higher side window sills and higher dash makes the car feel more enclosed, a bit claustrophobic inside, so though I am a Magna fan, I am not likely to buy another Magna. Even less likely to buy the Magna's replacement, the 380 based on the US Galant, it is so ugly, has even higher side window sills, the rear seat windows are tiny, there is no wagon version at all, don't they want my money??
AAArrrgggghhhhh.
I am rather put out, I want a manual trans, 4 cyl manual wagon which I can get converted to LPG, a car that is economical but a bit of fun to drive and is sensibly designed, not some impractical styling exercise. I have been looking for several months now and I CANNOT find what I am looking for. Well except for the Peugeot 307 wagon, but that's about $15000 too expensive for me...
Chris.
The smaller Holdens since the mid 90s have been sourced from Europe, the first model of these Opel-sourced Holdens was the Barina, which is called the Opel Corsa in Europe. It is assembled in Spain, It's a tiny 1.4 litre hatchback. My partner has a 99 model, and it is a fantastic little car. Veery reliable and a nimble delight to drive. The other models were the Astra, (Opel Astra) which is a 1.8 litre sedan and hatch, and the Vectra which was a 2 litre sedan, hatch or wagon. The Vectra was assembled in Aus in 99 and 2000 but when Commodore sales increased factory went back to assembling Commodores only and Vectras became imported again, from Belgium.
These late 90s Opel sourced Holdens were very well liked here and sold well. They have all been replaced with new versions, a new Barina in 2001, a new Vectra in 2003 and a new Astra in 2005. They have all been a step up-market, more expensive (in 2003 the old Vectra was $26000, the new model was $35000 !!) and in my opinion they are all ugly. The new Astra in particular is hideous. Sales have plummeted. The Barina sales halved over three years. Vectra sales did even worse. Astra sales weren't too bad as the old model stayed on, rebadged "Astra Classic" now made in Poland instead of Belgium. But is has been phased out now.
Holden are now sourcing their smaller models out of Korea, rebadging Daewoos. The old Daewoo Kalos is the "new" Barina, and the old Daewoo Lacetti is now badged as a Holden Viva. The Vectra is due to be replaced by a Daewoo sourced car too. These cars are complete junk and are being caned by the press. Surely these cars will squander the good reputation Holden has built up with their smaller cars over the last ten years or so.
Sad news for me as I particularly like these "Opel Holdens" and I am currently looking to buy a 2000 Vectra wagon, if I can find one.
And don't get me started on Mitsubishi. My current car is a 93 Mitsubishi Magna, sold in USA as a Diamante. It is fabulous but getting old now. The later model, I have been looking at a 2002 model, has the following changes: 3.5 litre V6 motor (mine is 2.6 litre 4 cyl); auto trans only on wagons (mine is manual, I strongly prefer manual); no split-fold rear seat (my older car has it); higher side window sills and higher dash makes the car feel more enclosed, a bit claustrophobic inside, so though I am a Magna fan, I am not likely to buy another Magna. Even less likely to buy the Magna's replacement, the 380 based on the US Galant, it is so ugly, has even higher side window sills, the rear seat windows are tiny, there is no wagon version at all, don't they want my money??
AAArrrgggghhhhh.
I am rather put out, I want a manual trans, 4 cyl manual wagon which I can get converted to LPG, a car that is economical but a bit of fun to drive and is sensibly designed, not some impractical styling exercise. I have been looking for several months now and I CANNOT find what I am looking for. Well except for the Peugeot 307 wagon, but that's about $15000 too expensive for me...
Chris.
chad_hauris
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2006
- Messages
- 94
The only GM product I own (or have owned) is part of my school bus collection, a 1974 GMC School Bus w/366 V8 and 4 barrel carb. Still runs very well.
Every day I notice a lot of 70's and early 80's Caprice Classics, Chev and GMC Pickups, Olds Delta 88's and such still on the roads. It seems like the rear wheel drive GM products of the 70's and 80's were built with enough quality in the drive train to keep going. Salt, snow, and water are rare on the roads here so cars don't get the rust death they do in the Northeast.
Every day I notice a lot of 70's and early 80's Caprice Classics, Chev and GMC Pickups, Olds Delta 88's and such still on the roads. It seems like the rear wheel drive GM products of the 70's and 80's were built with enough quality in the drive train to keep going. Salt, snow, and water are rare on the roads here so cars don't get the rust death they do in the Northeast.
