General Motors in the red.

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I think it's a whole lotta things wrapped up in one big mess. Although I'm not a staunch unionist I don't believe that union workers today intentionally set out to perform poor quality work. I believe it to be the opposite but they are mired with poor decision making and designs from above. I work for a railroad and started at the very bottom moving on up thru management and I still hear it from coworkers who joined straight at the management level all this looking down at the actual union workers who make the trains runs. The unionized workers are more proud of the company than any non union person I've yet to meet. I sometimes have to remind them that yes I was one of those down there as well at one time. Snobs is all they are and like I like to say, they wouldn't know a train if it ran over them but they'll talk like they could go right down to the track and run the train themselves. Another thing I remind them, the whole floor could miss a month or more of work and the trains would keep running, probably better.
Now the other thing that Japanese have that I still don't think has caught on is what's it called "kaizan" or continuous improvement. The strive for perfection whereas the Big 3 just accept mediocrity and offer factory rebates and such to entice people to buy a lesser quality product. As we know it's failed miserably, a majority of people want quality and are willing to pay that extra, especially when it comes to their choice of car. Of course there will always be people who will settle for less either for financial reasons or patriotic, but they too are a diminishing number. You can only be taken so much then it's time to vote with your wallet.
 
The last GM cars I really got excited about would probably be like the 77 Monte Carlo. After that the cars changed a lot and they've never really been the same to me. I know they had some deplorable cars in the 80s and I can't speak to their quality since as I really don't know anyone who's owned one. My first car was a '74 Nova which of course I loved.

I had horrible luck with a Chrysler product in the 80s and I've never really gotten over that, though once again I can't speak to their overall quality.

We always had GM growing up (generally Buick Electras) which were nice cars. My Dad always kept a pickup as well as his vehicle to drive to work, and for that he always preferred Ford. In about 1990, they switched to a Ford Taurus that was a fairly good car for a long time, and they've since had 2 Toyota Camrys, although there were years my father never would have even considered a foreign brand of car.

After my errant Chrsyler product breathed its last about 1987, I gave up driving altogether for several years. Then I had an older Toyota Celica and have had Ford/Mercury products since. At the moment I have a 99 Mercury Mystique which is a wonderful car both practically and dependability wise. It's comfortable, economical and an ideal size for me.

I plan to drive it for at least another 5 years barring any major changes, and will probably get something similar when it comes time again. I do like the new small sedan Ford/Mercury has, I forget the name, as well as the 500, that being perhaps more car than I really need.
 
Bankrupt

I did say that I think G.M. wants to go Bankrupt.

But since I have owned many G.M. cars, it does make me sad to see where the company has gone.

My cars:
1962 Chevy II
1968 GTO Convertible
1961 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1969 VW Convertible
1978 Cadillac Seville
1980 Cadillac El Dorado Biaritz
1979 Buick Riviera
1985 Lincoln Mark 7
1989 Mercury Cougar
2001 Chevy Camaro
2003 Ford Crown Victoria

I owned these cars in the above sequence, I wish I still had some of them, the 1969 GTO, for instance would be quite valuable. The only cars I bought new were the VW Convertible and the Camaro. The others I bought used, I think it does save money. I never had a lot of trouble with any of the cars, even the 80's G.M. cars which were supposedly the worst. But there were things that wore out such as radiators and water pumps. Some Toyota and Honda owners tell me that those items last longer in thier cars.

And historically, G.M. was quite inovative. The had many firsts, probably brought to the market before the technology was perfected. Things such as air-suspension, fuel injection, air-bags (put in some Cadillacs, Buicks and Oldsmobiles in the 1970's), variable displacement (cylinder shut-off, the V-8-6-4, in the 1991 Cadillacs)

Most news reports indicate that the current G.M. vehicles are reliable. I just think that their line is more of a "rolling white goods" than, say, Chrysler. I keep harping back to Rear-Drive, but you should have a choice. If I want to buy G.M. I would need to spend at least $30,000 for a Cadillac CTS.

I just look at what the Steel and Airline industry have done, almost all went Bankrupt, dumped thier pension and health care obligations, and went on stronger industries. That is probably the only way for the domestic manufacturers to compete.
 
Diesel engines.

Another big mistake GM made is waiting too long to introduce the Duramax diesel to their pickups and vans. With the Diesel craze beginning in the early 1990's. All three of the USA automakers offered diesels in their pickups. The problem, however is that the GM 6.5 liter diesel was lackluster in performance. When Dodge introduced the 5.9 Cummins in their pickups in 1986, they really had a lot of takers. Then in 1994, Ford offered the 7.3 Powerstroke in their pickups and vans (which I'm a proud owner of). It seems like Ford and Dodge were selling all of the pickups. GM should not have waited so long to introduce this option. I know that GM also had a big problem with their 5.7 liter diesel that was offered in their cars (my mother had one of these for a while), and instead of introducing a better diesel for their cars, they shucked the whole idea altogether. I am 6'8" tall, so I cannot stand Saturns. I hope that the USA automakers don't start stooping to cars made in China, because I will not buy them again if they do.
 
After the earlier fiasco with the diesel engines, they're going to have to get it right for people to trust them again. I can't stand the sound of them so wouldn't own one personally, and they tend to come on larger cars than I would likely purchase anyway.

I remember in the late 80s, I think, a Cutlass or something similar with a diesel engine, still had the window sticker and all that brand new, just go up in flames in a McDonald's drive in.
 
I remember taking one of those diesel Cutlass's out for a test drive way back when at the dealership in Vancouver. Talk about a bone shaker. Even after a good warmup on the hiway when it came time to park the car in a slot slowly it was like riding a bucking bronco it was shuddering so bad like a gas car ready to konk out. And that's the car they were letting people test drive. I can still remember the car, it's the only Cutlass I've ever driven, white C Supreme loaded with a dark blue interior. I bought a Volvo.
Then when it came time to trade in the Volvo in 93 I thought I'd give Chrysler a look-see because I really like the look of the new New Yorker or LHS than the Concorde. Off we go for a test drive, pretty warm day so I switch on the a/c, after about a minute, nothing yet, the salesman tries fiddling with it but it never did work.. Enough for me. Around that same time I hit another Chrysler dealer and they had a nice loaded Concorde, white again, so I agree to go for a test drive. Get in the car with the salesman, won't start, the excuse being it's been sitting, after a mechanic comes and gets it going we're off. As we're entering the freeway the check engine light comes on but we carry on eventually returning to the dealership, he says to take the back street in, so I turn to go that way, come to a 4 way stop to make a left, proceed into my turn and the car craps out right in the middle of the intersection but it quickly restarted. Parked the car and told him not a chance in hell I would buy one. That's when I bought my Camry. If they can't even get their demo's working properly what does that say.
 
Its only American Diesels that suck

Diesels in the rest of world, show very little appreciable difference to their petrol cousins. To do this though, the diesels have become fully electronic and very complex, but if their emissions can meet the Euro III and IV standards, they must be doing well.

When we upgraded our Toyota Landcruiser earlier this year, we test drove the Turbo diesel to compare to the V8 Petrol. The power might be less, but the Torque is much higher, and available accross a wider rev range.

It started with no rattle, no vibration when cold, and ran just like the Petrol version does. Fuel Ecconomy averages 11.5L/100km vs the Petrol at 20L/100km.

If the US manufacturers started importing diesel technology from their European or Japanese cousins, I think the bad image that diesels have in the US would dissappear.
 
mpg conversion

To convert Liters per 100 Kilometers to Miles per Gallon:

235.2209/DIN

11.5L/100km = 20.45 mpg Diesel engine
20L/100km = 11.76 mpg Gasoline engine (petrol)

It's easier for me think in these terms, just as it's easier for the rest of the world to use the L/100km.

I use this conversion when I surf the European G.M. sites or the Holden (G.M.) Australian sites. Interestingly enough, the European G.M. sites offer many different cars than are available in the U.S. Many really cool cars are available in the smaller sizes, still made by G.M. Too bad they are not smart enough to realize what they have. Same goes for Holden, they have lots of good Rear-Drive platforms, including my favorite, Station Wagons. Looks like G.M. may have to use Holden for their new Camaro platform, because they don't have anything that is adaptable in production here in the U.S.
 
My Father had a Cutlass Cruiser station wagon with the Diesel in it, and he didn't have much problems with it at all. The motor was a little bit underpowered for a car that weighed almost 4 tons, but it got great mileage (30 MPG's on the highway), and lasted darned near forever. The car made a little more noise at idle, but once one was up to speed, the normal wind and tire noise sort of drowned out the growl of the engine. Being a young boy at the time, I liked it because it sounded tough, like a big semi-truck!

Dad worked in the trucking business at the time, so he purchased Diesel fuel at the truck stops on his work account. He also had the mechanics at the shop change the oil and maintain the engine for him. This is probably the reason the car lasted so long. Most of the problems that these cars had were due to poor quality fuel, and mechanics that didn't know how to maintain them, like putting SG instead of SD grade motor oil in them, and re-using fasteners when the motor was torn down. Those engines too, would go through air filters like mad because they sucked so much air down. A major cause of poor performance was that the users would not change the air filters frequently enough.

Dad put 200,000 miles on that car between 1980, and 1986 before buying an Astro-van. (The Astro was a rare excellent GM design from the 80's) That Cutlass then went to the Rescue Squad, where they used it as a first-responder car for the next 10 years and put another 100,000 miles on it. It's demise came when someone put gasoline in it and trashed the injector pump.

Dad's always been a Diesel dude, so when the Duramax engine was developed for the pickups, he had to have one! In 2004, he bought one. That truck has been absloutely flawless, and hasn't needed the first trip back to the dealer for even the slightest warranty work. It gets almost 24 MPG's on the highway, which is quite an accomplishment for a truck that weighs close to 5000 pounds empty, and is about as aerodynamic as a brick wall. The truck pulls around his huge 28 foot slide-out RV like it's not even back there. The sound of the motor is great, a very smooth "precision" sound, unlike the old 5.7/6.2/6.5 family of Diesels GM made. Actually, the Duramax is an Isusu design. If one buys a cab-forward Isusu box-truck, they are equipped with a 4 cylinder 150 HP version of the duramax...it's just the pickup motor chopped in half!

For me, I am seriously considering getting one of the Jeep Liberty trucks with the Mercedes Diesel engine in it. It's been the only vehicle around that has ever come close to matching the performance of my Astro van. Mercedes knows how to do diesel engines too, so I can't go wrong there! My 4.3 liter/ 5-speed Astro has 170 HP, and gets 25 MPG's on the highway, and will pull a 5000 pound trailer. The Jeep Liberty CRD has 160 HP, gets 28MPG's highway and will pull 5000 pounds too. The only thing is that I'll hafta sacrifice some interior space, and some handling. The Astro rolls a little bit, but sticks to the road pretty good. The Liberty CRD bounces, jounces and gets pushed out of shape when hanging through turns...but it's an SUV after all, it does have 4WD, and that will be nice for launching my boat from a beach...something my Astro definitely WON'T do!
 
My 2nd car was a 1980 Monte Carlo coupe. The first was an early 1970s Nova handed down from the grandmother. We called it the Green Bomb, not for any particular reason.
 
Steve,

THANK YOU for pointing out the many reasons why you father's 1980 Diesel Cutlass lasted as long as it did. It was serviced by actual Diesel-savvy mechanics, used actual truck-stop diesel fuel, and was using the correct oil. Those three things are the many reasons why most other engines failed, as their OWNERS maintained (or lack there of) their Diesel Olds engine as a gasoline engine.

Ben
 
My mom's Delta 88 had about 190,000 miles before it finally puked. It could have been easily been overhauled if parts could have been found for less than a king's ransom (if at all), and a mechanic willing to work on it. NO ONE wanted to work on it, NO ONE, no matter how much money we were willing to throw at them. So sadly, a car that was otherwise in great shape just had to be scrapped.
 
GM

Here's my rant. Have owned GM's for years. The Saturn SW2 we have now has it's moments. The last car was a Cavalier with 153,000 miles on it & it was raring to go. I retired it in favor of a 2006 Chevy HHR, which I really like. I bought it in October 05. Of course, the Employee discount program applied to 2005's. I paid full sticker price for the HHR, since it was right out of the box. In November, GM did the Red tag discount, and now thay are lowering prices on all models except Saturns. So I am pissed. Now the discounts apply to HHR's as well. Jerry
 
As an enthuaists of GM products since I was a little one, I hate to seem them in the position they are in, and I wish I could put my two cents into the operation of their company.

GM's biggest problem I think is the fact that they keep trying to sell a full product line to each nameplate, instead of giving each nameplate it's own niche and character. Prior to the 1970's, each GM nameplate had it's own character, and many even designed their own engines and other mechanicals. GM's biggest problem is that their divisions seem to me to be a "me too" type of thing, selling vehicles just because someone else does, and not because they are innovative or popular. Here's my outline to the way GM should tune their product line:

Chevrolet: The only division that should feature a full product line of vehicles from pickups, SUV's, Vans, sedans, coupes, sports cars, etc. These vehicles should feature traditional American characteristics in vehicles, like rear drive. Styling should be attractive, but relatively subdued. Prices should be affordable, with a wide variety of optional equipment and features avaliable.

Saturn: Compact and mid-size vehicles in both coupes and sedans, sports cars, and car based SUV's. Saturn vehicles should be more Asian like as they have been in the past with features like front-wheel drive & MacPherson strut suspensions.

Pontiac: Full-size, mid-size, and compact sedans and coupes, and sports cars, pony cars and other "muscle" cars. Traditionally known as the performance division of Pontiac. It has been caught up in making gawdily styled vehicles that lack the critical performance factor. Pontiacs should styled to be sporty, but not too tacky. Pontiacs DO need to have powerful engines, tight suspensions, manual transmissions, and other performance goodies. Large cars need to be rear drive, and V8 based, playing up the classic Musclecar theme that made Pontiac famous. Smaller sedans and coupes can be front-drive to take a piece of the "rice rocket" market, while sports cars can be mid-engined, or front-engined /rear drive to be similar to traditional sports cars from Europe. Pontiac does NOT need to be selling car and truck based SUV's, Minivans, wagons, or any other type of utilitarian type vehicle that can water down the performance image. (Astec anyone?)

Oldsmobile. Yes, I know GM doesn't sell under the Oldsmobile nameplate, but why not? It's got a great heritage and history. This division needs to be selling full-size and mid-sized sedans and coupes, along with station wagons, minivans, and car based SUV's. Oldsmobile used to be GM's technology devision, and the place where GM would showcase their latest designs before they trickled down into other divisions. The trick was GM put this technology and modern styling into the utilitarian type vehicles that moved our families and commuters everday making driving more comfortable and convenient. Oldsmobile should NOT be selling sports cars, compact vehicles that aren't all that utilitarian. Truck based SUV's and other vehicles water down the high-tech image of the company too, as most people see trucks as not very technologically advanced.

Buick: Full sized sedans, coupes, wagons, minivans, and maybe even truck based SUV's. Buick traditionally has an "old man" image, but it could easily move in on Mercedes Benz's luxury sedan territory with a refinement in suspension technology, and an increase in engine refinement and performance. Ripping off Cadillac's Northstar engine is a step towards this, but Mercedes needs to be using full-frame rear-drive platforms with fully independent suspensions just like the rest of the luxury car market does like M-B, Lexus, infiniti, etc.

Cadillac: One of the only divisions of GM that has actually hit the market nail right on the head! Cadillac should have a wide range of high-end vehicles avaliable like cars of all sizes, truck based SUV's, and even sports cars. They are actually building all of these, and are selling them reasonably good. The only issue with Cadillac is that it should not be installing un-refined Chevy engines in their SUV's, but should design their own version of the Northstar that would power the SUV's...like it did with the XLR sports car.

GMC-Truck: Selling nothing but trucks, and truck based vehicles! No front-drive minivans or other car based vehicles

Here's how the vehicle platforms would square up:

Small sports car: Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn
Ponycar musclecar: Chevy, Pontiac
Larger sports car: Cadillac, Chevrolet, maybe Pontiac
front-drive compact sedan/coupe: Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saturn
rear-drive compact sedan/coupe: Cadillac, Buick maybe
Front drive mid-size: Chevy, Saturn
Rear-drive mid-size: Olds, buick, Cadillac
Full-size rear-drive: Chevy, Pontiac, Olds
premium rear-drive platform: Cadillac, Buick
car-based minivan: Olds, Buick, Chevrolet
Car based SUV's: chevy, olds, buick, Saturn
Truck Based minivan: Chevy, GMC
Truck Based SUV's: Chevrolet, GMC, Buick maybe, Cadillac

Each division should be able to develop it's own unique engine design. It can be shared among a few similar divisions, but not all 5. For instance, the Chevy "Small-block" V8's and V6's can be shared with Pontiac, Pontiac could also develop a high performance "rice rocket" motor that could also be shared with Saturn

As you can see, there's no "6 flavors" like they are currently building, and most platforms are only built among 3 product nameplates. Yes, you probably see some correlations to currently offered GM products, like the new Pontiac Solstice & Saturn Sky, or the unique to Cadillac CTS rear-drive mid sized platform. I included these because they seem to be the places where GM is doing it right...GM would have a heckuva time trying to sell the hot CTS if they also sold it as a Chevy! Why would someone want to buy an over-priced Chevy...that's what they gotta think about, along with other products that weaken the nameplate's image!
 
GM in the 80's

cybervanr

I here your point. To me it looks like GM is going backwards. It seems like they went through this in the 80's. Everything was a cookie cutter. The same car in tooooo many nameplates. Cimarron anyone? Ford came out with the Taurus/Sable in 87 or 86? It was different, not my choice in vehicals even though I did later own a few. But, as strange as they looked everybody knew what it was. It was a Taurus, not I think its a Cadillac, but wait maybe its a cavalier. It was a simular situation with Chrysler in the 80's. Chrysler didnt invent the mini van but in the 80's everybody knew who made it.

Scott
 
I have three words for GM...quality quality quality. They had better wake up or go the way of those long forgotten companies. I have always owned GM cars and trucks. My family bought GM or bought nothing. I own two vintage Oldsmobiles. I currently drive an '03 Olds Alero. My wife has had 2 Chevy S-10's which were fine. I have had a '96 Saturn, '98 Malibu, '99 Metro 4 door, and now my Alero.

The only good vehicle was the Metro. The rest are just junk. Saturn is NO different than any other division. The dealer was awful. They bought my Saturn back. It suffered from major engine issues and was rebuilt at their expense. The Malibu was no better. I went to a different dealer for the Olds and it has been a nightmare too with things that just seem to fall off for no reason especially trim and the hood!

We had a son in January and traded our truck for an "ugly" as they have been called Honda Element. In the year that has followed, the Element has been true to Honda's reputation. It is roomy (great for hauling vac's and other cool stuff), economical, and great for the family. Nothing has fallen off and my wife is HARD on a vehicle too. My Alero in the past year with less than 25,000 miles has suffered a separated hood hinge, bad calipers and rotor, broken ventilation knob (I had no defroster in Ohio in Feb!!!), and an automatic transmission that would not shift out of first gear...ever try to go somewhere in first gear. Not to mention the dealer lost the car...they had no idea where it went. Then they lost the key and did not rekey the car. I even had lug nuts that the dealer stripped and I had to pay to have replaced. What did they give me to drive during this time? A Cadillac CTS that used the SAME winshield washer stalk as my car...talk about a rattle trap at 16,000 miles.

I have had no satifaction from GM. 3 strikes and you are out. GM needs to wake up. When my Olds is paid for if not sooner I am on my way to the Honda dealer for one of those spiffy new Civics. I just want to get from point A to B with no surprises or things falling apart. As far as I am concerned GM is dead!

Oh...our Honda is made here in Ohio! Again GM quality quality quality!!!!
 
Strange---The Japanese car builders are siting their car factories in the US,and the "Big Three" US car builders are shutting down their US car factories and buiding them where??I have seen to many and drove--some US carbuilders cars and have followed a freinds recommendation and went with Toyota.Have a Highlander at present on a lease-Plan to buy a Highlander Hybrid later this year.Drove one-Really neat car.The US car builders are going to have to get on the ball and update their models.They also have to be more flexible and able to change when the market changes-the Japanese and others seem more flexible.They can change their models faster.Also the US carbuilders are as one other person wrote-put some QUALITY back into their cars.Its sadly lacking-one person I know has a Chrysler "Barretta" and its falling apart-less then 3 years old.
 
It's the same thing electronics manufacturers are doing. Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi, JVC, and many others have plants located here in the USA to built some of their more higher end equipment. This is all the while classic American electronic companies like RCA, Zenith GE, Magnavox, etc have located their operations overseas. The quality shows, as these brands have become cheap, low-end brands at discount stores and are sinfully unreliable.

I'm trying to figure out the mentality behind building low end products. The Japanese companies have done pretty good making good higher end products here in the USA. Why haven't the American companies tried the follow the same course by improving the reliablitiy and build quality of their product. It's such a simple idea that a child could figure it out! Build it better, it will be more popular, and you can sell it for more, and MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
 
Another big problem is that the big three can't get their heads wrapped around the fact that most of the general population doesn't require or desire a vehicle with all the superficial bells and whistles to pamper and spoil. And while they are developing these items like dual climate control, on star, 500 horsepower etc....., the wiser Japanese and German markets are developing safer, more efficient, and more reliable autos. Meanwhile, back here at home, we watch ads for the new 500 horsepower whatever, 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. They just don't get it. The big three have targeted the upper middle class market for too long. After Hurricane Katrina, when fuel was nearing $5.00 a gallon, how many people honestly gave a rat shit how much rubber their car could burn. I hate to say it, but a 500 horsepower car with no fuel in it (because it's owner can't afford to fuel it) has ZERO horsepower. As much as I'd like to see Ford and General Motors stick around, if they don't wake up and smell the Mocha Latte, they don't deserve to stay in business. And if staying in business means they have to outsource the jobs to China to make the same cars cheaper, I'd just as soon let them go under.
 
Quality wasn't Job #1

Ok so my 2003 Mountaineer goes into the shop again. 32,000 miles on it. It's recently had the transmission overhauled, a trim piece replaced twice that was warped and causing a lot of wind noise, electrical issues with door/liftgate ajar. And now the climate control wasn't turning on and going into max heat/fan mode. Also a clunk sound in the front end. The clunk was the ball joints! They were replaced, and all other repairs done under warranty. But why is a relatively new car falling apart? The dealer wasn't happy over the climate control issue. We had a spirited discussion on how that works. Also see Jason's thread on how thermostats work. This is the second time in two weeks for that one. And the dealer's explaination, if it's not failing at the time you bring it in, we can't fix it. It's an intermitant problem, which means they'll actually have to do some work on it other than plugging in a test meter.

So, I'll give it another six months, then perhaps see what is going on sale late this summer. And for me, Volkswagen is looking pretty good!
 
Cybervanr:Another reason the Japanese and other electronic equipment builders are siting here-its cheaper to pay the import taxes on the COMPONENTS than the finished product.I too have bought mostly Japanese Hi-Fi and Audio-video equipment lately. New Zenith TV's aren't worth the powder needed to blow them up.they are just a circuit board in a cabinet with the pix tube and a speaker.--thats it mostly air.At one workplace they bought Zenith TV's-couldn't repair them when they broke.Another weird thing-the Japanese folks LOVE vintage American tube Hi-Fi components-several years ago I was trying to sell some speakers-a Japanese buyer showed up to look at them-Instead he asked if I wanted to sell my McIntosh tube amps--Told him no.Still have them-they need new elec trolytic caps.
Knitwits1975: I don't get the "horsepower race" either-some car companies still hooked on this-watch the ads for pickups and SUV's on TV-even the "preshow" ads at the movie theater.the first thing they tout is the HORSEPOWER of the car.As you say-what good is that high HP motor if you can't put gas in the tank?You would think the high gas prices would reduce interest in oversized car engines.Some people may need them-those that haul a lot and pull trailers.
 
Here in Au, Holden manufactures only one basic platform, the rest of their range is imported. The Holden Commodore is the family size sedan and wagon, a coupe version is the Monaro, exported to USA as the Pontiac GTO.
The smaller Holdens since the mid 90s have been sourced from Europe, the first model of these Opel-sourced Holdens was the Barina, which is called the Opel Corsa in Europe. It is assembled in Spain, It's a tiny 1.4 litre hatchback. My partner has a 99 model, and it is a fantastic little car. Veery reliable and a nimble delight to drive. The other models were the Astra, (Opel Astra) which is a 1.8 litre sedan and hatch, and the Vectra which was a 2 litre sedan, hatch or wagon. The Vectra was assembled in Aus in 99 and 2000 but when Commodore sales increased factory went back to assembling Commodores only and Vectras became imported again, from Belgium.
These late 90s Opel sourced Holdens were very well liked here and sold well. They have all been replaced with new versions, a new Barina in 2001, a new Vectra in 2003 and a new Astra in 2005. They have all been a step up-market, more expensive (in 2003 the old Vectra was $26000, the new model was $35000 !!) and in my opinion they are all ugly. The new Astra in particular is hideous. Sales have plummeted. The Barina sales halved over three years. Vectra sales did even worse. Astra sales weren't too bad as the old model stayed on, rebadged "Astra Classic" now made in Poland instead of Belgium. But is has been phased out now.
Holden are now sourcing their smaller models out of Korea, rebadging Daewoos. The old Daewoo Kalos is the "new" Barina, and the old Daewoo Lacetti is now badged as a Holden Viva. The Vectra is due to be replaced by a Daewoo sourced car too. These cars are complete junk and are being caned by the press. Surely these cars will squander the good reputation Holden has built up with their smaller cars over the last ten years or so.
Sad news for me as I particularly like these "Opel Holdens" and I am currently looking to buy a 2000 Vectra wagon, if I can find one.

And don't get me started on Mitsubishi. My current car is a 93 Mitsubishi Magna, sold in USA as a Diamante. It is fabulous but getting old now. The later model, I have been looking at a 2002 model, has the following changes: 3.5 litre V6 motor (mine is 2.6 litre 4 cyl); auto trans only on wagons (mine is manual, I strongly prefer manual); no split-fold rear seat (my older car has it); higher side window sills and higher dash makes the car feel more enclosed, a bit claustrophobic inside, so though I am a Magna fan, I am not likely to buy another Magna. Even less likely to buy the Magna's replacement, the 380 based on the US Galant, it is so ugly, has even higher side window sills, the rear seat windows are tiny, there is no wagon version at all, don't they want my money??
AAArrrgggghhhhh.
I am rather put out, I want a manual trans, 4 cyl manual wagon which I can get converted to LPG, a car that is economical but a bit of fun to drive and is sensibly designed, not some impractical styling exercise. I have been looking for several months now and I CANNOT find what I am looking for. Well except for the Peugeot 307 wagon, but that's about $15000 too expensive for me...
Chris.
 
The only GM product I own (or have owned) is part of my school bus collection, a 1974 GMC School Bus w/366 V8 and 4 barrel carb. Still runs very well.
Every day I notice a lot of 70's and early 80's Caprice Classics, Chev and GMC Pickups, Olds Delta 88's and such still on the roads. It seems like the rear wheel drive GM products of the 70's and 80's were built with enough quality in the drive train to keep going. Salt, snow, and water are rare on the roads here so cars don't get the rust death they do in the Northeast.
 

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