Getting a little uneasy here

[foraloysius]

I've decided to share here an experience of mine from many, I think 20 years ago. I think it explains why I see things my way and why I get angry. I was an active member of the COC, the Dutch gay organisation. One of the things I did was answer the phone at consulting hours.

One night a woman called. She told me the story of her husband. Her husband came from a strict religious background. He knew he was gay and at some time he told his parents. His parents rejected him and told him he would burn in hell. They started putting pressure on him to get married and in the end he did. He didn't tell his wife about his gay feelings but kept struggling with them. After a few years of marriage he commited suicide and left a note for his wife in which he explained why he did it.

That night that woman called there was an item on TV about gays, especially about the conservative religious view on homosexuality. Being not very religious herself, she then understood what her husband must have gone through. How he felt there was no way out for him. That he felt so repressed that he rather committed suicide than to trust his wife and tell her about his feelings.

Since that night I get angry when the words 'gay' and 'hell' occur in one sentence. I think often about the long talk I had with that woman, how very hard she cried at that phone and also how mad she was that his family forced him into marriage and how that in the end made him kill himself.

I still get a lump in my throat when I tell this story.

 

[veg-o-matic]

Stream of consciousness. Please forgive!

Steven--

You said "As a religious, heterosexual male, I am finding myself in a minority in this forum."

Heterosexual? Yeah, you're probably in the minority here! Religious? Nope. I've noticed over the years that a vast majority of members are religious, or at least "spiritual."

And you know what? We love you. We really are a family here. Sometimes loud, sometimes obnoxious, sometimes downright mean.

Whaddya know? Just like a real family!

What we don't love is people who say "My religion says you're a bunch of sinners and you're going to hell" and won't entertain the notion that we can say "Well, my religion says I'm just fine, thank you."

Not that I'm implying you've ever done this. 'Cause I'm pretty sure you haven't.

Okay, this is going to sound like a 7-year-old saying "But he started it!", but look at the reality of the situation. In each case where religion entered the thread, it has started by someone saying "You homos are all going to hell."

Geez, and I thought we were discussing Brokeback Mountain.

So I think we should be allowed to respond to that.

Likewise, if someone makes a disparaging remark about your religion, you should be allowed to respond.

And boy howdy, sometimes those responses are gonna get heated. Well, of course they are, we're humans here.

Oh, we could make a rule that religion, politics, and sex shouldn't be discussed here, but then we'd miss out on some lively threads. What's the point in riding a roller coaster that's all flat?

Steve, no one wants you to leave, especially if we've made you feel uncomfortable. We try not to be like that. If you feel a thread is getting out of hand, you can just stop reading it. Or you can tell us you're getting uncomfortable, since we're not mind readers.

No guarantees that we'll shut up, though! See above remark about being humans.

Maybe we should all take Mom's sage advice and "Just be polite, dear."

veg

 

[gregm]

Amen Peter !!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought this website was about vintage appliances ???? Or at least in this "SUPER" forum, where the subjects become broader and more astray but still have "vintage topics/roots" ? I didn't realize that religion, politics, ebay, bidding practices or one's sexual orientation were such a part of the origination of this website. If I don't like what someone else says or does, do I confront on the spot ? or do I "take it outside" ? if someone doesn't like what someone else said why not just email them directly to vent ? Or is it more about having yourself heard versus what the person actually said to provoke your own thoughts and feelings. Please keep in mind when reading this there is no malice, jusgement, or criticism intended or implied. Just mere questions for thought ? When someone reads email or a post we are all guilty of putting our own emotional inflection and tone on to what we read because we cannot see the person's face, facial expressions, or hear their tone of voice and demeanor in conjunction with their message.

 

[petek]

Personally I don't think ones personal religious or moral "views" should be discussed here gay or straight or whatever. Everyone knows they always always always lead to these prestinkaments.
Where's the bloody cake!!!!!!

 

[veg-o-matic]

Haven't had time to bake it yet!

But this recipe sounds interesting:

Bible Cake
Yield: 1 multitude

(A) 1 cup of Judges 5:25, last clause
(B) 2 cups of Jeremiah 6:20
(C) 2 teaspoons of I Samuel 14:25, first clause
(D) 6 of Jeremiah 17:11
(E) 1/2 cup of Judges 4:19, first clause
(F) 4-1/2 cups of I Kings 4:22
(G) 2 teaspoons of Amos 4:5
(H) 1 cup of I Samuel 30:12, second phrase
(I) 1 cup of Nahum 3:12
(J) II Chronicles 9:9, 2nd phrase, to taste

Cream together A, B, and C. Beat D until frothy; add E to D, then combine with creamed mixture and beat thoroughly. Sift together the first part of F with G, then add the rest of F. Mix together with the first ingredients. Chop and flour H and I before adding. Add a generous amount of J to taste. Beat for 5 minutes.

Bake in a shallow pan at 375 degrees for 10 minutes.

veg

 

[brisnat81]

I dissagree with the original post entirely

However, there was once a time in the land of AW.org where you could log on, and see regular posts about 20+ year old machine restorations, and that was mainly what the site was about.

Recently its become a passthrough for ebay and general forum. The only specific post in recent times about a washer/dyer restore, has been Filterflo's Filtrator.

I realize that not everyone always has new machines, nor does everyone always have time to take pictures, but a lot of the repair info conversations seems to have moved off the forum and been replaced with general chat instead.

I disagree with the original comments in this topic, but would it be that bad, if the threads in the imperial and deluxe forums became purely about what they should be, and leave the innuendo and otherwise for the super forum.

I'm agnostic and gay, and have no issue with reading a bit of innuendo charged talk from time to time, I dont know that it has a place however in padding out the imperial and deluxe forums as it currently does.

Just my two cents worth.

Hugs

Nathan

 

[toggleswitch]

Jeez wait a few day before stirring up the pot.

I believe this thread was a reaction to another (new) member's Bible-slinging (in a different thread) about topics relating to a movie he did not see.

I am not sure why Steven Cybrvanr saw "US" defending ourselves as improper. BUT I DEFNED HIS RIGHT TO SAY WHAT HE FEELS and I value his general input tremendously. He also VERY GRACIOUSLY was willing to call a truce/cease-fire. Let's try to do that.

...and please allow me, with all my huge faults and faux-pas of late, to quote scripture (can you inmagine?)

"Blessed are the peace-makers, for they shall inherit the earth."

I need some pound-cake, who is serving?

 

[brisnat81]

If it has cherries in and vanilla frosting, then I'm there Toggle

 

[tomturbomatic]

Call this an attack if you wish, anyone, but I am confused. With all of the misery in the world that needs fixing, things like sickness, hunger, lack of basic necessities of life, how do so many of the religious in this world have so much time and energy to hate? It seems like if the spirit of the Creator of Heaven and Earth honestly fills you, you are not full of anger and are not actively searching for evil and pointing it out in others' lives. You also would feel that you should not use your religion like a club over other peoples' heads, to divide instead of unite, to stir up fake controversies like last December when the big deal to some Christians was the difference between a store clerk closing a sale with Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Actually if you do not know that someone is Christian, wishing them Happy Holidays is the kind thing to do. You become an instrument of peace. I do not understand why it is so easy to unite so many in hate and, yet, not in love. Why do some people in the Creator's service feel the need to lie about others to attract followers? Why are there so many fund-raising letters going out that raise fear and loathing of homosexuals in fine Christians, and encourage "any contribution you might be able to make to help me in my fight to keep America a Christian nation where homosexuals will not find a haven for their agenda?" What can same sex marriage do to destroy the institution of marriage? Of course there was that Baptist minister in Tulsa week before last who got busted for trying to solicit sex from an "undercover" (you should pardon the expression), police officer who was patroling a motel parking lot because the good citizens had complained about homosexual activity there. By the next day, he not only was no longer senior minister at his church, but had also resigned from the board of the Southern Baptist Convention and from another committee in the organization. Now, not only was he PROOF of the invalidity of their formula: accepting Christ as your Savior, would change any and everyone from being homosexual to being heterosexual, he was also a victim of the hate he had preached. The good people of Tulsa wanted this homosexual activity stopped so they called the police. Lighting did not have to strike him as he preached hate from his pulpit. He was trapped by his own undeniable attraction to the body of a nice-looking police officer. I believe that if a few more people who preach against homosexuals are shown to be hiding the same urges and subliminating that drive and self-hatred by preaching hatred to anyone who will listen, people might get the idea that those who are constantly using it a way to raise money and inflame others might just be covering up the same thing inside. I know that is optimistic, but you have to have hope.

I don't know if anyone here has read C.S. Lewis' The Screwtape Letters, but it seems that evil easily out-smarts people because people do not realize that when they spend so much time and energy searching for and pointing out evil, evil enters their minds for Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. I believe that's how it reads. If your treasure or treasury is an obsession with evil, it's in your life.

As far as not having a problem with homosexuality, a line from the third act of Hamlet comes to mind.

 

[toggleswitch]

...and lead us NOT into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

AMEN

I best say nothing....

 

[jaxsunst]

I hate it when this happens. There is nothing wrong with anyone here. I love our diversity. I also enjoy a good racy thread. One's sexual orientation is only a part of who they are, not all. I have a lot of gay friends and family, and the subject never comes up. Couples are couples, no matter what the gender make up is, and they should be respected as such.

I'm a straight christian (Episcopalian), and I have never been "offended" by the off hand remarks made here. Sometimes when I having a bad day and Veg and some others (I think of you now when I'm drinking my Tab) is having a good one, it makes my day.

Anyway, I've said my peace. I don't post often, but I enjoy all the threads.

 

[retromom]

Mom Speaks......

With paintbrush in hand and fresh off the ladder, here is my 2 cents worth....

Amen PeterH, PeteK, and GregM!!! It seems that the forum has gone a bit wonky. As a famous hairdresser once said, "Honey, we've got to do something with those roots!" Let's not forget what we are all about. IMHO the Super thread should be about all things vintage (make note of the pictures at the bottom of the "Super Thread") that do not fall under those in the Imperial thread as well as detergents, recipes, hobbies, small appliances, and collectables. My family never discussed religion, sex, or politics at the dinner table. Maybe this is advice well taken since there seems to be quite a bit of bickering lately.

Speaking of bickering...PeteK - if you hadn't sold that gorgeous chrome Oster Kitchen Center, we'd have the bloody cake by now. Guess I'll get out the Kitchenaid and make a "Sock-it-to-me" cake. ;-)

 

[petek]

I'm still waiting for payment on the Oster Kitchen Center! I was half hoping nobody bid on it because of second thoughts after the fact on keeping it. But I've already got an almond one and I'm keeping that. BTW did you see what I got for its $104, not bad. Right now there seems to be a rush of GE Toater Ovens on ebay as everyone tries to capitalize on past fortunes made..lol

 

[foraloysius]

I have to disagree

A long long time ago when we were still a Yahoo group it was an eye opener when it appeared most members were gay. I think we decided later not to be a gay group but at least a gay friendly one. I can't remember we ever changed that decision. So whenever somebody says anything negative about gays I will stand up and speak. On topic or off topic. Cake or no cake!

 

[pulsatron]

Relax! Relax! Relax!

Hey everybody it is time to have a cup of tea a bex and a good lie down and or a cold shower while at the same time let;s all sing the old Ray Stevens song ''Everything's beautiful in it's own way under God's heaven we're all going to find a way''
This advice is bought to you from a girl loving atheist.
By the way for those who may not know ''Bex' was a pain killer which used to be available here years ago.

 

[petek]

Now that's cake for thought Louis, I wasn't here way back when like you were, my being so young and all.
Certainly if someone blasts in or starts an inflammatory thread, on any subject, they deserve what they get in response but it should be directed to them and not construed that it pertains to any one group as a whole.

 

[sikiguya]

Let's just all get along!

Although I am in the minority here (female and married hetero), I am appauled at the antics and ramblings of a few of the people here! No one has any right to judge another unless they have already looked inside themselves for fault (people who do this are usually the ones who are the loudest and most obnoxious). I, too, kind of feel a little judgement from others on occasion as I am in an inter-racial marriage and there are some people who are still very against that. My husband is Asian. My daugher looks a lot like me and my son looks a lot like him. I have people stare at us all the time when my daughter calls him Dad and I have had people ask me where my son is from. Boy do they get a wake up call when I point to my stomach! Then they get all clammy and won't talk.

I am very proud of all the members here who are gay and who don't worry about what others think. They are true hero's in every sense of the word.

I love the treads here and come here just to read and relax on a daily basis. I am not into washers/dryers but do like small appliances. I do so much laundry for a 4 person family that I really HATE the washer & dryer with a passion! Racy message and innuendos are hilarious and I am often sharing with my husband some of the goings on here.

While I agree that this is a forum for small appliances/washers/dryers/vacuums, there is always room for "extra" talk and that is the only way that people have to get to know each other over the internet. Once you get to know someone, isn't it great to be out somewhere and find something that someone you "know" from here wants and can get it for them? It just makes it more personal and more fun. I would really hate to see the posts go back to a generic "Do you have this manual?" or "Look what I added to my collection today".

JMHO~

Heather

 

[48bencix]

Evolution caused it

I basically agree with foraloysius on the subject.

But you have to ask yourself, if gays don't reproduce, why are we here? Basically I think evolution took care of it. Non reproductive family members can help out with the family in other ways. Other pack animals and some birds are like this too. With wolves, only the alpha pair reproduce, but the other pack members help out. Not to imply that in the animal world the non-reproductive are gay. I look at my own family and see how I was able to help take care of my mother after she had a stroke. My unmarried sister helped also. My married brother and sister helped less, they had their own families to take care of. So I think a reporductive advantage can be had for not having all children reporduce.

God knows, many straights shouldn't reproduce either. And I do know many gays who have been married and had kids.

And, actually I think that we all were created by the same force or God, with this help in mind. I just think that now in our age, we are finding out that many of our family members, say that aunt who never married, were actually gay.

And, my new testament has Jesus' words in red, as do many bibles. I never came across any statements from him about this. I learned that he came to earth to CHANGE our ideas about what God expected of us, such as to love our neighbors.

So, even though most religious teachers condem gays if they pleasure each other, I remember how the Catholic church treated Galileo, in those days. Most likely in the future this whole mess will be looked at the way we look back at the Galileo situation.

And, I really don't care about "gay marriage", at this point in time it pisses so many people off. What disturbs me is, as a California State employee, I enjoy health coverage for my domestic partner. This something we all need. There are groups that want to pass a proposition to take that away. All I want is to be treated equally, because I am not exactlly equal but I am definitely not less than anyone else.

 

[peterh770]

Who cares if anyone had any revelation about anyone else's sexuality! This $%*@# website is about appliances! Shut up and talk shop! Are conventions nothing but international orgies? NO!!! Are wash-in just private porn parties at peoples' homes that happen to have washers? NO!!! We get together and enjoy eachother's company and collections! Why are we carrying on about sex and sexuality here? Who cares!!! Enjoy the machines, enjoy the hunt of finding machines, enjoy the challenge of restoring them, enjoy the knowledge that others have about the machines. And everything else, go start a Yahoo group! All this noise is taking up server space and bandwidth that Robert is providing to us on his dime! I'm all for comraderie and fun, but d@mnit, keep it on major appliance topics! NO ONE should feel intimidated or embarassed or awkward for anthing discussed here because everything discussed here should be APPLIANCE RELATED!!!!!!

 

[foraloysius]

Who cares?

Well, I do. This club is not only about appliances but also about collectors. Porn parties and orgies have nothing to do with that. It has to do with people caring for eachother. Feeling at home at this club. People feeling confident about personal things. Because collecting appliances is something personal. Remember it was sort of a coming out for a lot of members to say that they were into appliances?

I've made friends at this club. When we chat or meet it's not only about appliances, but it's also about the rest of their lives. I hope this website can be a home in some way for all us. A home where we not only can talk about appliances but also about more personal stuff.

Conventions are the ultimate evidence that this club is more than about appliances. Otherwise a museum would just be as good as a convention. But there is more to a convention than just looking at appliances. It's meeting the people behind the hobby that makes it so wonderful. I cherish that. Do you think I would otherwise have crossed the ocean three times to be there?

Maybe you're right about one thing. We need to talk more about appliances here. Why don't you take some pictures of your collection and share them with us. It has been a long time since we saw some pictures of yours. Instead of talking, give the good example. Like I did recently with my small appliances. Taking the pictures was fun on it's own.

And then we'll have some cake!