Getting Ebac FL washer - made in the UK

[rolls_rapide]

RobM's video

Thanks for that!

The two door clicks as it unlocks reminds me of the Zanussi IZ.

The way the drum does that weird reverse 'adjustment' before a tumble, reminds me of another machine I had seen before on Youtube - maybe an LG?

The Ebac motor does sound whiny - is it a brushless type?

The spin in this video looked okay to me. The deceleration to distribution speed reminded me of my mum's Bosch which does this only once. I presume the Ebac machine is collating data at these points, comparing the out of balance signals. (I wish my Panasonic did this - it doesn't, it stops and tumbles everything out of equilibrium again).

I would love to know what the Which? report actually said about the Ebac.

 

[liamy1]

@Rolls

Copied and pasted below the 2 Ebac reviews (sorry, there would have been too many screen shots - I have tried to make legible) and my memory is working - yes they were both “don’t buys” but not just DBs, but bad ones - scoring 35 and 39 percent. Even most Indesit and Hotpoints do better than that (around the 50 percent mark)

 

[liamy1]

7kg

Which? verdict
Not good enough

The Ebac AWM74D2H is an interesting washing machine that allows owners to use water straight from the hot water supply to wash clothes. The aim of this is to reduce the energy needed to heat the water once it's inside the machine, and you won't find many machines like this in the UK right now. To find out how well this UK-manufactured washing machine washes clothes, we tested it at our lab. Read on for our full review of this Ebac washing machine.
Low energy use, quiet, reasonable at spinning
Poor clothes washing and very poor rinsing
We feel let down by this Ebac - we've waited a while to test it and only sent it to our lab when we knew that it would be widely available to buy in the UK. But we feel like we shouldn't have bothered. Our tests show that it's poor at washing cottons and synthetics and that it's weak when rinsing. And that's why we've made it a Don't Buy.

What is it?
This is a freestanding washing machine with room inside for around 7kg of washing, which makes it a touch smaller than average when it comes to capacity. It spins at 1,400 rpm, which is what you'll find most new washing machines hitting and it's badged with an A+++ energy label.
There are 15 wash programs to choose from and the machine comes with a 24-hour delay timer and a lock for the control panel.
What's it great at?
We like how this Ebac manages to keep energy use nice and low and the fact it's one of the quieter washing machines we've seen. The 1,400 rpm spin does a fair job of spinning away water from the load and wash programs aren't too long. But this is where the good news comes to a sudden stop.
Is there anything I should watch out for?
Clothes washing just isn't good enough. In our tests we were presented with poor results on both our cottons and synthetics tests. So, this is likely to mean that dirty and stained clothes aren't going to come out completely clean. In our rinse tests, it was plain bad at fully removing detergent from the clothes it had just washed. So, all-in-all, a washday letdown.
Our test results and test score are based on cold-fill 40°C wash programs for cottons and synthetics. But because having hot fill as an option on a washing machine is a bit of a rarity, we also tested it on its hot-fill setting, where a mixture of hot and cold water is used to wash clothes. We're sad to report that the results of this extra test were very poor and worse than the cold-fill results.
Energy use is reduced dramatically when already hot water is mixed with cold water to wash with, but we were very disappointed with the wash results.
Is there anything else I need to know?
Yes, this Ebac comes with a free five-year parts and labour warranty.
Should I buy it?
No. Clothes washing simply isn't good enough and that's why we've made this Ebac a Don't Buy.

 

[liamy1]

8kg

Which? verdict
One to avoid
The Ebac AWM86D2H is an interesting washing machine. It's designed and manufactured in the UK and unlike almost all machines available to buy right now, you can hook it up to your hot water supply. This means you can take advantage of water that's already been heated. And it comes with one of the fastest spin speeds we've seen. But features aside, we wanted to find out how well this Ebac washes clothes and that's why we tested it at our lab. Read on for our full results and review of this Ebac washing machine.
Excellent at spinning, not very noisy at all
Poor at washing and very poor at rinsing
We've waited until Ebac washing machines were widely available in the UK before testing this model and we're sad to report that the wait hasn't been worth it. This is a poor washing machine with few redeeming features that did badly in our clothes washing tests. And that's why we've made it a Don't Buy.

What is it?
This is a super-fast spinning washing machine that comes with a best-of-breed 1,600 rpm spin. There's room inside for around 8kg of laundry - about average for a machine today.
It comes with the option of hooking it up to the hot water supply, which means you can use already hot water to wash with, rather than just cold water which will need to be heated. This means that the Ebac, which comes with an A+++ energy label, does a good job of keeping energy use low.
There's a 24-hour start delay option which means you can load the machine and then set it to run at a time that's best for you. You can lock the control panel and a digital display shows the remaining wash time.
What's it great at?
Energy use is kept low and we like how quietly this machine goes about the business of washing clothes. To keep energy use as low as it can possibly be, use the machine with already heated water on its hot-fill setting. But we found that energy use is low across the board for this machine.
The 1,600 rpm spin is also hugely effective but, sadly for Ebac, this is where the good news ends.
Is there anything I should watch out for?
We're just left underwhelmed with how poorly this Ebac washed clothes in our tests. For cottons washed on cold fill with the machine then heating the water to 40°C, it was poor at shifting the dried-on stains we tested it against. And when we switched loads from cottons to manmade fibres, it was equally unimpressive in comparison to many other washing machines we've tested.
Rinsing was pretty bad too so this might sometimes mean you need to run an extra rinse cycle to get rid of all signs of detergent in your home.
Our test results and test score are based on cold-fill 40°C wash programs for cottons and synthetics.
We also tested it on its hot-fill setting, where a mixture of hot and cold water is used to wash clothes. Sadly, the results of our test were very poor and worse than the cold-fill results.
Is there anything else I need to know?
It comes with a free 10-year parts and labour warranty and this is a rarity in the world of washing machines.
Should I buy it?
No. There are many better washing machines at this price and we expected more from this Ebac.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Thanks for that!

Initial thoughts: Gosh!

On second thoughts, I wonder if they used the 'intensive' setting? I imagine not...

And they probably used a dumbed down standard test powder. If they'd used their wonderful winners 'Formil' or Ariel, they'd probably get better results.

This kind of basic testing really irritates me, and actually puts me off Which.

 

[vacbear58]

Which

Below is an oldish video from Which describing the processes they use.

And they use the programmes thay consider people will use most like 40 degree cottons or 40 degree synthetics - trying to emulate real life settings.



There is a link on the video which will take you, not immediatly, to the tests which have been summarised above. You could even go for a trial subscription (which i think is £1) to avoid posting speculation as matters of fact

 

[liamy1]

I’ve got to admit,,,

There have been times where I have been sceptical of them, there have been many reviews they’ve done I’ve really not agreed with (either a great review for a product I’ve owned and found rubbish, or vica versa).

*And they probably used a dumbed down standard test powder. If they'd used their wonderful winners 'Formil' or Ariel, they'd probably get better results*.

I don’t believe they’ve ever stated what detergent they use during their machine tests, maybe they should. As we all know of course, there are so many variables with laundry - machine, cycles, detergent, water type/temp and how many clothes/what type of clothes a user would put in together.

I know there is one site (more of a tech review site) that tests washers and they say they test all their machines using “a branded non bio detergentr” so they of course either mean Persil or Fairy - linked.

https://www.trustedreviews.com/best/best-washing-machine-3431783

 

[rolls_rapide]

sceptical of Which

I've personally had irritating previous experiences with their 'Best Buys', so I'll take their 'modern' advice with a large dollop of salt.

Make no mistake, I do hold vintage Which in high regard. Back then, the information was concise.

 

[ozzie908]

@ Rolls-rapide

I too enjoy the vintage Which mags but back then they did the testing in a number of homes and not in a laboratory.
They said that if there was too few a machine to test out it was due to not being in enough homes and thus they could not speculate.
Did they test the Ebac in a few homes like they did the old twinnies and Auto's?

Austin

 

[vacbear58]

@ Austin

Austin

Which have always done their primary testing in a laboratory, right back to their first washing machine test (wringer washers) in 1958. I understand they also do some testing of machines in homes to get "real world" appraisal but the primary tests have always been in the laboratory.

Actually I wish they would update their tests on this machine which are now about 18 months old to see if their have been any changes in the programming to improve performance. I had considered buying one of these earlier in the year but the Which report put me off, whilst not the most expensive machine, they are a long way from being the cheapest with a best buy Beko machine being less than half the price.

 

[rolls_rapide]

"primary testing in a laboratory..."

Indeed so. Remember one of the early Hoover Keymatics flooded the laboratory?

Which did 'take in washing' though. They obtained dirty laundry from a boys' school, and commented on the inability to wash pillow cases clean.

I think where Austin is perhaps being confused is the 'reliability' aspect. In this case, Which usually used member feedback on their experiences of owning a particular machine; the number breakdowns and repairs, etc. Where a sample set was too small to assess, they generally said so.

 

[rolls_rapide]

"Actually I wish they would update their tests on this machine which are now about 18 months old to see if their have been any changes in the programming to improve performance. I had considered buying one of these earlier in the year but the Which report put me off, whilst not the most expensive machine, they are a long way from being the cheapest with a best buy Beko machine being less than half the price."

I wondered that myself. It would be reasonable to assume Ebac would read the damning test report, management would have an 'attack of the vapours' and make improvements to the programming.

I do wonder if the temperature profile is wrong for the soils. Or was it the case that Ebac's machine defaults to the quicker cycles?

Moreover, I remember reading in an older Which report (circa 1990s) that even the worst machine at that time, washed satisfactorily. So maybe this Ebac isn't as bad as they make out?

 

[vacbear58]

I will admit I was somewhat surprised at how bad their conclusions were - I could understand that with a hot fill the results would not be so good, especially with bio detergents, compared to cold fill but I would have expected results to be much of a muchness - the machines all work in pretty much the same way.

I have used many machines in my time (at the moment I have 30 odd autos to choose from each week) and all been more or less satisfactory. But one case in point everyone holds Bendix (Philco) washers in high esteem yet they were consistantly marked down for washing performance in the 1970s/early 80s compared to other machines. I have two of them and they both seem to do fine.

Of course a lot comes down to the nature of the clothes you are washing - nowadays most people are (generally) physically cleaner and wear clothes for much shorter periods between washes so most washers will wash clean - even a cheapie Bush washer (another dont buy) I used for a couple of months a few years ago was OK.

But if you are doing really grimy stuff like overalls, or childrens clothes when they have been out playing (do children go out playing now?) then it could be more of a problem. I find that the main challenges to any machine are stained tea towels and handkerchiefs (sorry not in good taste but its true) and that is using cold fill, 60 degree cottons wash and, generally, Persil S&M bio. The only thing to get them really clean is a soak overnight first - even using a pre-wash will not get the "shadow" stains out.

 

[rolls_rapide]

That Which Youtube video...

...in Reply #25:

She wants to get her bloody facts right in the first place!

RPM is defined as 'revolutions per minute'. Not, as she says, "rotations". Probably wouldn't know one end of a screwdriver from the other.

 

[robm]

Hi all

Well I have to say that the Ebac, isn't half as bad as Which? make out! To be fair it does have its rinsing issues which I think are due to not enough interim spinning and the fact that the jet can pump soapy water back over washing. However, not nearly as bad as they write. You can also add more rinsing.

They seem to rate Samsung highly and although I've never owned one, I've heard some very negative things about them from the washer community.

I remember buying a Which? best buy kettle for quietness. However, after no time the kettle was very noisy and this was mentioned by numerous customer reviews. If you notice, many of their reviews, clash with their customers.

I think the Ebac needs a chance. If I have time I am going to send them my feedback.

 

[liamy1]

RobM

*They seem to rate Samsung highly and although I've never owned one, I've heard some very negative things about them from the washer community*

You're not wrong there! Have had 2 Samsung washing machines - issues with them both - one was £1000+!!!!

 

[chrisbsuk]

Which....

I too am suspicious of Which? reviews, especially at the moment with them crowning Samsung “Home Appliance Brand of The Year” - I’ve written to Which?, three times, asking if they consider aftercare part of awarding a manufacturer an award like this. And guess what! They’ve not even acknowledged my mail asking these questions.

The reason I asked them this, is because I had my fingers burnt with a Samsung Washing machine earlier this year, which lasted less than 6 weeks before I rejected it, under the sale of goods act with the shop I bought it from. It stopped dispensing detergent automatically (and with the model I had, there was no dispenser drawer!) and then flooded the basement. I called Samsung, WHO DO NOT HAVE A DEDICATED UK REPAIR NETWORK, and subcontract it out to whoever is available (granted, they are trained by Samsung) - they couldn't come to me for three and a half weeks. I live in Bristol. Not an Island in the middle of the North Sea. And even then, that wouldn't be acceptable! Three and a half weeks to me was unacceptable, and that was the basis of my note to Which? - asking if they thought crowning a brand with this award, was solely based on performance, or did they take into account the wider offerings that you “buy” as part of the brand. I therefore rejected the appliance with the store, and they were really honest and said "we don't stock Samsung anymore, because of their aftercare" - which I thought was so telling.

Which are currently obsessed with Samsung. Perhaps i’m sceptical after my experience, but something tells me it doesn't quite stack up. A machine may spin well, but with no aftercare service worth talking about, it seems a poor decsion to recommend the brand overall. And I think /worry the Ebac rating could be terribly un-justified!

And for those of you on here who warned me about Samsung all those months - SORRY…I did choose to ignore you and believe Which, but I know better now. Sadly, I still have the dryer, as I bought them as a set. And if you’re interested, I replaced the Samsung with a Miele W1, WMG120, with Twin Dos Dispensing, Cap Dosing, steam and 1600 RPM spin. I love it. Its like a silent tank! It is exactly what I should have done in the first place. Lesson learned! Picture below.

thanks all

Chris

 

[rolls_rapide]

@chris:

That your top end Samsung failed and flooded your house is frankly, bloody awful. Imagine that scenario in an upstairs flat...

In your defence, I will say your machine certainly 'looked the part', and was well swanky. I have to say that I myself have seen one of the QuickDrive machines up close, and thought it looked rather flashy - I was rather taken with the pulsator - but it was pricey at over £1000!

Samsung's aftercare service seems to be very random and pot luck. From what I've read online, some folk have sometimes had a reasonably speedy repairs, other folk have had weeks without the machine (spares not available). And in your case, Bristol is well within civilisation - its certainly not Outpost Zeta. If shops and stores are critical of the aftersales service, I'd certainly believe them.

I would like to know why Which is suddenly in bed with Samsung. I'm wondering if the staff at Which really are impartial, or are they allowing something to colour their judgement?

Anyway, many happy washes with the Miele.

 

[chrisbsuk]

@rolls

good to hear from you

..it was the top end Samsung one, yes! and that's what made me write to Which, as a little further research tells you the brand is poor for reliability and service, yet they still recommend it. That's why I question the Ebac report!

 

[ozzie908]

@chrisbsuk

Have you seen how many broken Samsung washers are on ebay? When you put the same criteria but put Miele you seem to get even more but majority are not in this country.
I personally have a Miele W4449 washer and Dishwasher sadly although its darn good an AEG dryer I also have various Miele vacuums and they all perform simply superbly..... Who needs aftercare when they don't go wrong?

Austin