Getting my kdss-21a ready for daily use, need some loading tips

[DADoES]

 
There have been numerous "discussions" here on the virtues of TSP vs. STPP.  Just to say, TSP (trisodium phosphate) generates a precipitate when binding with minerals in the water whereas STPP (sodium tripolyphosphate) does not.  Washer manufacturers back in the day advised to add a non-precipitating water softener with soap to combat the effects of hard water and avoid scum.  Washday miracle-detergent products included it, until phosphates were eliminated.

The dosage is whatever amount "breaks" the water (makes it feel slippery) before the detergent is added.

 

[johnb300m]

stains

Banana and to a lesser extent, avocado are two stains that I've seen many many dishwashers struggle with.
Even my modern KitchenAid 304G will struggle with knives used to cut bananas.
It seems to do ok if I use action pacs and Hi Temp wash.
Otherwise, the banana is very stubborn.
We'll see if the TSP helps out.

 

[lorainfurniture]

Update

I got the finish powder and added a wee bit of tsp to the box. I ordered some stpp and will try that. The tsp and powder didn’t really improve that much. Just throwing it out there, the dishwasher definitely works, if I open the door during the cycle water nearly hits my 9.5 foot ceiling.

I’m going to check it again just to be sure.

I’ll follow up when I mix the stpp. I’m thinking like 5% stpp to 95% detergent?

 

[joeypete]

I used to put in about a teaspoon or so between the 2 cups. I only use Cascade Complete powder and it is rated very high by CR, so at some point you may want to try that.

Otherwise do you fill the cups completely with powder? I normally do, at least pretty close to full. It was recommended in the directions on the Cascade.

 

[beekeyknee]

That sounds about right. Start small and add a little more if you have to. My mom used too much in hers and took the shine off the porcelain.

 

[rp2813]

Keep in mind that in general, dishwashers tend to render mixed results with a load consisting of mainly plastic items. 

 

[lorainfurniture]

Oddly I’m not having any issues with the plastic stuff. The loads are turning out mostly ok with the exception of the random knife and occasionally the tea cups. Oddly all the bottom rack stuff.

I’m going to recheck the spray pressure again. Maybe there is something going on with the bottom spray arm that’s giving me trouble.

 

[joeypete]

Yeah def check that! When I got my GoPro and made videos of the inside of the machine, that's when I discovered that the spray arm was hardly turning. Even then, it cleaned really well, but still LOL. I took it apart and cleaned everything and it was back to normal.

 

[eurekastar]

I'm wondering if the difference in results is due to the use of enzymes in today's detergents.  Does it take them longer to dissolve food than the shorter wash times on old dishwashers would allow?  I don't know...I'm just guessing.

 

I use Walmart's powder.  I use a little of it and STPP in the pre-wash and then put a tablespoon of STPP in the main wash and fill the rest of the cup with Walmart Powder.  Most of the time, the results are stellar.  Only on occasion is something left on...baked on cheese or a little egg on a spatula. 

 

[awooff]

Bottom rack

In the past ive had an older dishwasher or two that were not filling with enough water which seemed to reduce spray pressure. Fill valves seem to let less water thru as they age. Likewise, replacing the fill valve is good insurance that it won't stick open and cause flooding. Also relatively inexpensive part to replace and easy.

 

[combo52]

Hi Eugene, there are many things that can get out of order on KA DWs that keep them from working at their peak level.

 

Be sure that the lower arm is turning fast enough, we always saw a lot of KA DWs where the lower arm was slow, you can slightly bend the outer tips of the arms to angle the outer jets for better propulsion.

 

But you have to keep in mind that KA DWs do not have guaranteed wash temperature and the main wash cycles are too short, this is why WP, GE and MT all out performed any KA 21 series DW in the 80s.

 

John L.

 

[lorainfurniture]

So I’ve been using the pots and pan cycle for the most part. I’m nervous to use the Sani rinse as I have a bunch of plastic stuff in there on a daily basis. My wife will lose it if this dw ruins my daughters favorite cup lol.

That said I feel like a might have a bit of a inlet issue. The dw inlet line hisses a bit when it’s filling, that makes me feel like there is a restriction somewhere. I’m going to experiment the next week or so and I’ll follow up.

I will say that switching to finish powder and adding a bit to the prewash cup has helped

 

[combo52]

Sani Cycle On A KDSS-21

Only heats the water in he sump to 165F then briefly sprays the water on the dishes, I can attest to the fact that my WP PC DW with its Hi-Temp Wash&Rinse of 150F gets the dishes much hotter. If I put a #1 plastic bottle in the WP DW it will melt and distort, our KA KUDSS-20 never got close to causing any plastic melting or damage in the ten years I had it.

 

I Always used and use air-dry on our DWs.

 

John L.

 

[joeypete]

I've had issues in mine. Just the other day actually. My Tupperware salad bowl warped in the lower rack (just from the normal temps). My SaniRinse gets super hot and I've taken plastic items out right away and they were very pliable. LOL. Just be careful.

Nice thing on these machines is that the heating element is lower than typical so it doesn't cause as many problems.

 

[askolover]

I always add detergent to both cups...about half full in each one since I have a water softener.  My mother usually fills the main cup and about half to the prewash cup, same DW as I have but no water softener in the house.  Think about it....it adds quite a bit of water to the tub...much more than the new machines do so the detergent I'm sure is more diluted in our older models. 

BTW Eugene, would you like me to send you a little of the chlorinated powder I have so you can try it?  I have a bucket of it.  I also have fryer boil out, but I like the Premier bucket better.

 

[combo52]

Kitchenaid KDSS-21

Hi Eugene, This DW has THREE detergent cups, if you are using the pots and pans cycle you should put some detergent in the 1st open cup between and above the other cups.

 

It is important with any DW to use a good combination of detergents. On my 1987 WPs I use a powdered detergent in the first cup [ 1/2 full ] and a perium tablet in the 2nd cup.

 

On your DW I would try some enzyme detergent in the prewash area maybe with phosphate added, a premium tablet in the first covered cup and some chlorinated powdered detergent with phosphate in the final wash cup. I would not get too carried away with the amount of detergent [cups  only about 1/2 full ] with this DW as it only has one real final rinse.

 

John L.

 

[lorainfurniture]

Update

Things are mostly going well. I still get the occasional dirty knife, but it always is the banana knife. I’ve been using a mixture of finish pods, powder, and some old chlorinated dw detergent my friend bob gave me.

I’ve more or less mastered loading (compared to my first attempts at least), and everything fits and getting clean. The only bummer is that I’m using a lot more detergent. Pre wash, main wash. My pos LG took 3 hours but it mostly did it with one pod. The kdss is loud, but I honestly love it.

It looks beautiful, sounds powerful. It 98% of the time takes care of business. Hopefully I can find a mint condition stove that my wife will approve of so I can ditch that mediocre LG stove. It certainly works fine but is so boring I loathe it.

I’ll update again in six months.

 

[norgeway]

I have a custom 21

And it does ok...but as John says, its not as good as the older kitchen aids, personally a 16 or 17 will blow it out of the water, I prefer the single arm machines, the water pressure is so strong nothing has a chance.

 

[combo52]

Kitchenaid KDSS-21 Dishwasher

Yay, Eugene, glad you are having fun using this unique DW, there are only two of these know to still exist that are in regular use, keep us updated and lets hope it is still working in 6 months.

 

You should look for something like a GE Veratronic or Colaric Micro-Electric range to complement your KA DW, there has never been any other range that can do the things these combination ranges do, and being able turn out good food quickly can be a real benefit with a busy family.

 

John L.

 

[awooff]

Detergent

Lorainfurniture - chlorinated detergent will "kill" or negate enzymes in powdered or pod detergent.

Loading might benefit the tea cup by not placing items in the 4 corners of either rack as wash arms move circular. Also per manuals, soiled dishes (omit flatware) need faced down to catch spray..

Also try using normal or light wash and results maybe better as i have found w many machines. -The fewer water changes do not dilute detergent.