Give it to me straight: how long have I got?

[superelectronic]

Dark clouds are on the horizon.

Much used and much loved, my Hotpoint WM12 has started to make a new noise.

She's always been a noisy presence; over the years I've got used to the odd rattle and such but none have ever been fatal. This time, however, I rather suspect the bearings are finally on their way out...just before her 15th birthday...

 

[superelectronic]

Having popped the hood and removed the backplate, I suspect the following is sign of seepage from the bearing...

 

[superelectronic]

There's no rattling yet...it's more of a pronounced scraping of metal against metal.

The noise is only present when spinning but even turning the drum by hand sounds and feels different - not smooth as usual. I can also detect a VERY slight play in the drum when pushed up/down; barely noticable to be honest.

So I ask you: how long have I got before I call in the repair personnel? And what do I do in the meantime:

(1) nothing - you've got ages yet...

(2) decommission the Hottie and resurrect the Proline until a repair can be effected

(3) start looking for something new(er)

Option 4 I refuse to countenance: reinstall the Proline full time.

Yours, with heavy heart,

Alex.

 

[cfz2882]

#2...

i'd do option #2-a bearing repair may have it running another 15yrs.
might be expensive repair if you have an appliance shop do the job though..
Also presuming it has an aluminum spider,condition of that could be a
factor too-though i have not yet came across a badly corroded spider,i have
seen a few nasty ones on here before!

 

[hotpoint95622]

hotpoint 95622

How long have I got;

It’s a job to know, don’t let it get too bad, as the drum can start rubbing on the heater or the front lip of the tub front plate, which can increase the cost of repairs, you can also get rust spots on your whites as the rusty muck leaks back thought the knackered bearing seal which is why the bearings have failed. 15 years hasn’t she done well?

If you have it done I would have the shaft/spider changed as well as the bearings/seal.

 

[superelectronic]

It IS tricky to know...

I'm thinking that repair will be scheduled for early May...so we're talking 6-7 weeks at about 4 loads a week.

It's literally only just started to sound bad and as I said, there's barely any sideways movement in the drum. I seem to recall my sister having an earlier machine (9540) with a loose drum for AGES so maybe I can get away without a machine swap. Might try and keep to short spin programmes; thank heavens the better weather's arrived!

Anyone got any clues as to an estimated repair cost? I'd guess anything up to £200 but given I could spend that on a cheap newbie and get less wear out of it, I'd probably be spending wisely!

 

[pierreandreply4]

i do hope you can have it repaired and all i can say is good luck because like i mention in other post repair techs today recommend the replacement of the machine but if its reparable then go for a repair you would have your washer last alot longer goodluck

 

[seamusuk]

Hottie bearings.....

Hey Al

You may just about get to early May, but if it gets any worse id advise temporary substitution of the Proline...

Id ALWAYS get the spider changed on one of these as well as the bearing unit.

Regarding price Hotpoint have a fixed price repair service and they dont stipulate a maximum age- think its around the £100-110 mark, or you might be better off phoning round your local repair places for a quote.

Or you could ask one of the lads up country if they fancied a weekend in London lol......

Just DO NOT send it to the tip

Seamus

http://www.hotpointservice.co.uk/hs/pages/content.do?keys=FAQ:WEBSITE_FAQS#Service_Repairs

 

[superelectronic]

Thanks for the advice Seamus. Seems the consensus is no half measures when it comes to the repair!

I've had a look at the HP service website before now and their fixed price jobs...I'd worry they'd tell me it was Beyond Economic Repair though. Who can say...

Whilst it's true I do have the necessary "connections" to get a mates' service, I think it might fall under the category of taking liberties! Plus they're from the Posh North...standards in grimy ol' SE4 might not match expectations, ha ha!

Might ask the landlords next door if they know of anyone good - they're that sort after all.

I do feel somewhat obliged to keep it going but have to confess a longing to start afresh with something shiny and new, chosen by me for me; the Hotpoint was in fact a compromise when purchased. Still, a repair is probably more likely overall. And if I do go mad I'll be sure to try and offload the WM12 to someone deserving for the sake of posterity!

Toodles

Alex

 

[pierreandreply4]

don't forget it cost nothing to ask for a repair estimate and then you can decide depending on what the tech tells you if you went to spend for a new washer or have the one you have fix

 

[launderess]

Cannot Speak To Anywhere Else

But in our neck of the woods repair service calls have a flat call out charge just to walk into the door. Should one agree to whatever work is required the deposit is normally credited towards the final bill. However if the work is declined, you are out whatever funds were collected.

To be fair can see a reason for this. Petrol and a repair person's time aren't cheap, and the man deserves something for his efforts. Otherwise his day could be filled with calls that do not pay and he will be out of pocket.

L.

 

[GrahamW]

Whether the machine is repairable will depend on the availabiltiy of parts, their cost and the time/labour it takes to do the job. You can check out my Miele bearing thread if you are at all interested in seeing what is involved in dissassembly. There are plenty of other threads here and great videos on youtube that describe the process. From my experience, I'd say 200 pounds is a low estimate. I'd have spent that in parts alone if I purchased from Miele Canada.

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?32606_126

 

[superelectronic]

I'm pleased to say...

...that parts are somewhat less expensive than on a Miele, as well as widely available! These machines were extremely popular in one guise or another for the best part of 20 years - one of the real mainstays of British laundry equipment.

Labour and call out are where the spend comes in though fixed price repairs rather than charge by the hour seem to be gaining popularity. Will have to address Launderess' pertinent point about call out fees - are they refundable should a repair be deemed uneconomical? Not that I think the machine is beyond repair.

Funnily enough it's just finished a cycle and now the drum is back to sounding normal after a bit of an unbalanced spin! Mind you, the bearing noise was noticeable on the interims.

Ah well...at least it will be an experience; at 31 it's probably high time I had to commission and pay for something to be repaired! Seems to have got away with it so far...

Bye for now!

Alex

 

[chestermikeuk]

Repair It

Hi Alex

Pity we wernt nearer, could have had a workshop experience!!, the parts are very reasonable, £40 quid for the complete spider & bearing kit on fleebay!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WASHING-MACHI...ssories_ET&hash=item2eb3992609#ht_1704wt_1139

 

[chestermikeuk]

Or

you could resort to this way again, plenty of these about, I believe Rob mentioned thining some of his out!!!

 

[launderess]

Call Out Fees

Normally aren't refundable. Once they walk in the door, you must pay. Well suppose one could try refusing to pay, but the mind reels at what could happen then. *LOL*

Went through this when my "new to me" vintage Whirlpool had a leak and required tub seal work. To their credit every repair service contacted asked what the problem was, and a off the cuff response was it was indeed the gasket seals, but given costs (parts, labour, etc) involved for such an "old" machine best of chucking it in the rubbish and buying new. If one stuck to the request for a service call, then a price was given for call out charges which again would be applied to any work required.

Most repair services won't take the word of any consumer, no matter how well intentioned or experieced in DIY matters, and will insist on coming out themselves to examine. If the service is honest many will do as above and tell you off the bat either not to bother or what costs *might* be.

If you really like this machine, I'd go for the mortgage and call in a repair service to have a look at the bearings. Sooner the matter is sorted the easier the repair and will save potential future damage that could totally take out your machine.

 

[aquarius1984]

ha!

what was I thinking letting an OOOOooovah in the back door?

Must have wayyyy too much time on me hands to be untangling shirt sleeves and snaked jean legs.

Tell me to get knotted??? I will be!

Alex, wish there was an easy way round this, id have it up here and repaired in a flash (rings Mathew in a panic).

Id say find space for it - B&Q have those plastic outdoor sheds on offer atm which might help and scour for vintage machines on your doorstep.

Mind I better not let the village WI lot know about the arrival of a BOL 800 spin machine in the Shavington vicinity, id be kicked out! One simply needs either programme 8 or a 30degs cool quick wash to launder ones dailys while preparing for bed!

 

[pierreandreply4]

and sometime you can also get a refurbish part in a way if i can explain this is a part thats was broken but in a factory they can fix it i know on my old 93 topload inglis superb2 the timer knob was defective as the washer would not spin it was replace by a refurbishpart that means its an old part that they where able to fix in a factory aand i think that a repair would cost lest than having to buy a new washer as well but if you decide to buy a new washer have a look at this link as they say the washer is super quiet pic of the machine

http://www.hotpoint.co.uk/hotpoint/2/productsheet.do?productId=69431UK

 

[washerlover24]

would love that white machine u have what make its it and details.

 

[3beltwesty]

Mine went 6 years after being noiser in the SPIN cycle.

In ball bearings once they start to make noise they can still often run along time before a complete failure.

What is called a failure is sometimes when the races have 10 percent in area in pitting.

In a front load washer typically the water seal fails/leaks they the closest ball bearing starts to rust like mad, then one gets surface finish pits and noise.

With the 1976 Westinghhouse FL washer here it got "noisy" in the spin cycle about 1999 and had its front ball bearing cage broke the summer of 2005; ie it went 6 YEARS.

****When a FL washer has a failed water seal and 1 or 2 rusty ball bearings; one has the chances of the white clothes getting tainted by rust.

How long a bearing goes after getting noisy varies all over the place. With a washer the seal after leaking rusts the bearings which are 52100 ball bearing steel.

In some consumer products they "go" often 0.3 to 10 times the "time" after they get noisy.

 

[superelectronic]

Oh Pierre, your suggestion for a new washer is a real hoot! That's a Hotpoint Aqualtis - the premium range in the brand's lineup. NOT to be confused with or any way related to the "Made in Great Britain" clasic machine in need of repair: Hotpoint were taken over by the Indesit group a few years ago and to a Hotpoint fan it's an unforgivable travesty! They look pretty, I'll give you that...and some say they're not too badly made (not that that's saying much by current standards). Sadly, I just couldn't bring myself part with any cash for a new Hotpoint. It would be like a diehard US classic Maytag fan buying one of the new Whirlpool rebadges, I suppose.

Mike - good to know parts are indeed cheap! And if the twinnie option were viable I'd take it - I rather enjoyed my time with the Hoovermatic. Then I could maybe put a dishwasher in place of the autowasher and generally make my day-to-day living somewhat less of a drudge! Sadly, not sure the housemates would share my joy on the twin-tub front. Ho hum.

Rob - were it not for the lack of transport and driving skills, I'd be sure to pop the WM12 up your way for some prearranged engineering masterclass with the usual suspects. We could even swap mine for your near-identical machine in the shed! It may well lack programme 8 for swilling out the lingerie ready for the morning but I'm sure Quick Wash is good enough. Plus it does have the HIGH GLOSS fascia which I'm sure you'll agree in rich chocolate brown adds a touch of class few current machines can offer!

I'll consider the B&Q shed but the Queen Vic does only has a small patio area; extensive grouds with swimming pool and room for a pony a la South Fork Shavington are strictly the preserve of those on a 6-figure salary around these parts.

Washerlover24 - well, that white machine is the Proline W850 and if it didn't belong to the landlords believe me, you'd be welcome to it! 6 years I put up with that old thing...6 very long years! To give it its due, the machine is very robust having survived from 1995 with just a couple of heating elements being replaced. It was made by a company called Brandt (Fagor Brandt of Spain I think these days) and distributed through Comet as an exclusive. As a washer it's fine if all you wash is towles and jeans but the programmes aren't well suited to giving good clothes care - either full on action or hardly any at all. I've done a couple of threads before - I think if you click on the "Posts" icon next to my name it will do the necessary...alternatively, search the Deluxe forum archives from January 2010 - the pic thread is there somewhere.

Now...back to work I think!

Alex

 

[washerlover24]

haha would love it i am in need of a washer soon wont be long til i move out of the parents house !!

 

[superelectronic]

Prices....

Well, 1st enquiry down: dropped a line to Hotpoint service earlier.

The response doesn't inspire confidence - it starts "thank you for your enquiry about your dishwasher..."!

Looks like a stock response. Working in Customer Services I know the drill and feel for the staff but you'd think they'd actually tailor the response to the enquiry, no?

Anyway, machines over 8 years old get a fixed price repair for £134.99. Not too bad, methinks. I have, however, replied to ask if it's more for a washer!

I'll consider further.

Must be the season for problems - now the phone's on the blink too. Apparently written in the stars for those who follow them...Mercury is about to go retrograde *LOL*!!! Easily dismissed as bunkum but the woman I've been reading has been scarily on the money of late. But enough on that!

Drum still sounds rough so the perceived reprive from 2 nights ago was a fluke.

The search continues...

 

[3beltwesty]

If it is really the ball bearings then it a major rebuild. If you pay a service guy often it really may not make sense. It is a like if one's engine and transmission blow on the car do you have them fixed or buy another car?

The spider and bearings and seal typically cost 70 to 200 bucks on a FL washer; the rest is labor, gobs of it. A pro might do it in 4 hours and an amateur in 8 hours.

 

[3beltwesty]

About the entire cost is labor.

Replacing a slider, 2 bearings and seal is probably 3/4 labor and 1/4 parts cost,

Thus here in the USA the labor might be as a rough crude guess 70 to 120 dollars per hour for 4 hours at least.

There are folks whose quotes are here with parts in the 500 to 800 buck range; thus the old washer goes into a landfill.

One has to take the entire machine apart to replace those two bearings; whose cost might be only 25 bucks on ebay. The seal has to be replaced too; the spider probably too since it is probably corroded or has its seal surface scored.

Many folks repair these by themselves, it is not rocket science, but often the old bearings have to be beat out and new ones pressed back in without ruining them.

About the entire cost is labor.

 

[hoover1100]

A bearing change

Is a very common repair over here, and while not cheap, is rarely so expensive as to warrant purchasing a new machine (unless it's an LG or a low end machine with the bearings pressed into the tub).

A bearing change on a machine of this era and brand would be particularly worthwhile, I know of many machines of this age and older which have gone through more than one bearing change in their lives, perfectly economically viable and a common repair!

Even on modern machines of better quality, a bearing change would not be ruled out by cost.

It seems in the U.S. worn out bearings or a damaged spider are seen as a front loading machine's death, here it's really not a problem.

I'd definitely try and get some quote's off independent repairers, my local shop charges £40 call out and parts on top of that, very reasonable if you ask me and certainly worth the expense on this particular machine!

Matt

 

[aegokocarat]

i would say

install the proline untill you fix ye olde faithful hottie
Tom

 

[electron1100]

Hotpoint Bearings

Piece of Pi** job 4 hours! more like 2 on one these easy to work on machines (that goes for 90% of old UK machines aswell), get it done, dont even consider replacing it with a modern machine, you only have to look through all the threads on modern mainstream machines on this forum to see why not.

Go For It!

My mate had one of those Prolines came with job when he was a manager at Comet

 

[3beltwesty]

Get actual written quotes in writting

If one is paying another then getting a firm quote is all that matters.

The end user really should not care if the quoted labor is 300 in both cases; ie 2 hours at 150 or 4 hours at 75.

Unless one has a firm defined cost of Labor plus parts; there is no rational way to say if paying another makes any sense.

Thus get several actual written quotes to see if it makes any sense.

Sometimes the labor can vary a lot between similar models, ie one has to have a different tool or some other issue like another part breaks during the rebuild.

Here in the USA many of us get actual written quotes for consumer items; so there is a basis on making a repair versus scrapping decision and no miss understandings.

Here is somebody says it is an easy job of 2 hours and the repair shop charges 4, it is the estimate that matters, not some others comment.

Here if there is risk with repair or the shop has less experience the quote often is higher; to absorb risks.

 

[electron1100]

"not some others comment"

Just speaking from experience matey which is extensive with older British washers

oh and by the way we here also get quotes aswell if we are unable to do the work ourselves, and any business that does not stick to its quote gets the bums rush