Going to pick up a vintage dish washer

[calebstevens]

Hello! I'm new to this page, but feel like I may have stumbled across a wealth of knowledge that I can hopefully utilize in the weeks to come as I try and save what I think is an early 80's dish washer (first photo is one I found on Google search, the other close-up is the actual washer I am going to get).

From the photos in the ad, I believe it is a KitchenAid Energy Saver V Imperial by Hobart. The gal is renovating her kitchen, and I am trying to create a vintage kitchen in our 1950s home. The seller indicates it runs but leaks everywhere... I am hoping it will be an easier fix that won't require a bunch of discontinued parts. She posted it for free, so I though it would be worth my time in trying to repair it.

What are your experiences with these machines, and more specifically, what may be a common cause for a leak? All help and insight is appreciated!!

Thanks!

 

[calebstevens]

Is anyone on this site anymore?? LOL.

I have the dishwasher and it is in incredible shape!! Believe it or not, it still has the protective plastic film along the chrome edges of the front panels. However, it does in fact leak. I haven't plugged her in, but I dumped a little water in the base of the machine and out it drips onto the floor.

I believe I have narrowed it down to the impeller/motor shaft seal area. I have a new impeller/seal kit on the way. I'm a bit confused as I read through the repair manual. There is a gauge and shims I am suppose to use to put the impeller at the correct height. Can't find a gauge, so do any of you have experience on replacing this seal?

 

[hobarthero]

Beautiful Machine!

I love it. What model Imperial machine is this? It’s on the left hand side of the tub on a sticker in front as you open the door. I’m guessing KDI 18 or 19?
-Shannon[this post was last edited: 6/17/2021-17:54]

 

[stevet]

KDI-20?? Shaft seal replacement.

The shaft seal is not hard to replace. Chances are that you can forego the gauge they refer to in the service manual if you simply disassemble the old seal and reassemble it exactly the same way as it came apart. Namely, make sure that you replace the same amount and same shims that you took out and where they came from. The lower shims are different from the upper shims. If you do that, the seal will usually work just fine.

Some of the seal kits will include the gauge for the stationary seal height and also the long plastic feeler gauge for the wash impeller as well as the spacers to hold the lower half of the wash arm support in place with the screws you take out to split the wash arm support. The instructions are pretty straight forward and you should be fine if you follow them.

Do make sure that the small lip that the stationary(lower) seal sits down on is intact, Sometimes this lip will deteriorate and you will not be able to seal the motor and will need a new lower pump shell. They are out there if needed so just ask if you need one.

Also, install the lower seal by using some rinse agent like jet dry or equivalent. That will help it slide into its resting place. Keep the black carbon face clean and be very careful not to break it in any way. Inspect it for damage before replacing it. If it is chipped or cracked in any way, it will leak.
The upper, white ceramic part of the seal goes on the underside of the drain impeller. Some had small little indents on one side of the ceramic face. These get positioned facing UP and slide into the recess of the drain impeller. Again, use Jet Dry and gently press it into the recess until it seats evenly.

Hope this helps. Steve

 

[calebstevens]

Thanks for the replies!!

I'm not home so I can't look at that sticker, but from what I can tell, it's a KDI-20... Again, I'll conform that later.

That is some helpful information Steve, thank you. I will keep all of this in mind when I begin the seal swap once the parts arrive on Wednesday.

Funny story; when I went to pick up the machine (1 hour from home) it was sitting in the lady's driveway without the kick plate. I asked her where it was and she said she had no idea. The kick plate was in the ad photos, so we looked all around with no luck finding it (the house was being gutted for remodel by her - the new property owner). I left disappointed, fearing it had accidentally been tossed in a dumpster, on its way to a landfill. Plus I knew it would probably be a pain to source one of these. I told her if she comes across it to please let me know.

She texted me 30 minutes later as my wife and I were grabbing a bite to eat right before we were going to make the hour drive back home. Apparently the plumber who installed her new dishwasher had taken it (why, I don't know)!! She said he left it on the mailbox of his shop across town, so we drove over there and sure enough, there it was sitting outside of his shop. I grabbed it and hit the road. Phew!!

 

[gelaundry4ever]

You should

run a test load of dirty dishes in it. I'd recommend Cascade platinum detergent and power dry rinse aid of the same brand.

 

[calebstevens]

Good and Bad News

UPDATE:

The seal kit came in the mail and I was able to install it and SUCCESS. No more leaking down onto the motor.

But by sealing up one leak I exposed another. In the picture you can see a hole that I assume is the drain tube. It is a rubber hose with a lip that sits inside a hole in the base of the large motor mount gasket so it sits flush with the bottom of the washer. When water gets to that point it starts to seep through the crack and drip underneath the washer.

I have popped that hose up, cleaned the rubber and put some rubber gasket maker around it and pressed it back in the hole. Hopefully this will solve the issue once it cures.

Have any of you experienced this issue, and if so, what was your solution? I couldn't find replacement parts for this area.

 

[rp2813]

Often just some very hot water poured into the sump area and allowed to sit will soften the rubber and make an effective seal again.

 

[calebstevens]

That's a good idea. I will try that as well.

Another quick questions; I've been referring to the repair manual I purchased for this dishwasher online, and in this diagram, it is showing what appears to be a gasket in between the pump cover (#1) and the lower pump housing (#3) - see highlighted piece in diagram. It isn't numbered in the manual, and it wasn't there when I took the pump apart.

Maybe Kitchenaid made these diagrams for several of their models and my KDI-20 doesn't have this gasket? You'll notice the second diagram (pulled from another forum on this website) doesn't have the same gasket shown... I'll probably just re-assemble without one and hope for the best.

 

[bigalsf]

Wash Pump Gasket

Yes, there should be a gasket which sits in a groove on the underside of the wash pump top (wash arm support).  If you don't have it the pump won't develop the proper pressure to effectively power the wash arms.  If you don't have it let me know.  I may have one.  I've also seen them as part of rebuild kits for sale on ebay, Repair Clinic, etc.  

 

Regarding the 2nd leaking issue the hose you are referencing actually feeds the upper wash assembly.  The lower half of the wash pump has an opening on the left side which corresponds with the opening for the upper wash tube.  Water is directed into this opening from the channel on the pump body.   The drain pump outlet is under the blue cover below the wash pump (seen in your photo).  The sealant you applied should do the job; if it doesn't I may have one of those hoses as well.  

 

Hope this helps. Good luck! 

 

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[calebstevens]

Where's the gasket...

Just checked again and it's confirmed... no wash pump gasket is present on this machine. Who knows how long it's been gone, but someone must've gotten in here (maybe to fix the leaks I've already addressed) and didn't put the gasket back.

I've tried searching for one online, but I'm not having much luck. I bet Hobart would still sell something that would work, but I just don't know what part number to be looking for.

Bigalsf, if you've got one lying around, I'd be happy to pay for the gasket as well as your time.

Let me know if you have links to where to order these, or if you find one in your supplies! Otherwise I'm debating on just using the liquid gasket maker and clamping 'er down!

 

[calebstevens]

Gasket anybody?

Would anyone happen to know where to source one of these gaskets? I'd really like to avoid using a messy liquid gasket, especially if I'm going to be taking it back apart for future repair).

Thank.

 

[bigalsf]

I do have a gasket.  Send me your address & i'll put it in the mail.   I also have a complete wash pump & motor assembly available.  It's in great condition with no issues.  You can have it, you would just have to pay for shipping.  Let me know.  

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[calebstevens]

This is great Alan! I just emailed you!

 

[calebstevens]

UPDATE

I was able to get the shaft seal replaced and the drain tube sealed up so there were no more leaks. And a BIG thanks to Alan for sending me a wash pump gasket. After all that was installed and I was somewhat confident it wouldn't spill all over the kitchen floor, I was ready to pull my existing plastic dishwasher and hook up the ole KitchenAid tank.

As I was installing the dishwasher, I noticed that this thing still had most of the blue protective plastic from the factory over the stainless trim (see photo 2)!! It was very satisfying to peel it off after 41 years and reveal the shine.

With everything hooked up I ran a cycle with no soap to see if it would cycle through and stay leak-free. Success! Although I have not thoroughly checked each wash feature. I think either the timer or perhaps a thermostat or the heating coil itself may not be telling it to begin washing after the water heating stage. the water heat light stayed on for probably 10 minutes (maybe more) before I decided to manually turn the timer to move it to the next cycle.

To say I'm pleased is an understatement. Hearing all of the relays underneath click through the cycles is music to my ears. I did not have high hopes for this unit with all of the leaking I observed, and this isn't to say I won't be dealing with leaks in the future, but the fact that a dishwasher from 1980 is back up and running after a few seal replacements speaks to the build quality of these old appliances.

Thanks for all the help, and let me know if any of you have experience with the water heating feature.

 

[swestoyz]

Caleb - give it another 5-10 minutes to attempt to heat up the water. Depending on the incoming temp from the house it can take the KitchenAid some time to heat up the initial fill.

If the inlet line is plumbed in parallel to your kitchen sink hot line, run the hot water until it's hot at the faucet and then start the dishwasher. This will help speed up the heating process. It is a good practice to do so each time you start the dishwasher (I do this as well with my KDS-20!).

Ben

 

[calebstevens]

Week Update

Alright, been using the dishwasher for a week now. I've done a few loads and absolutely LOVE IT. It heats the water and cycles through all of the features beautifully.

Still can't get over the build quality of these. Opening the dishwasher is like opening a car door. I'm actually excited to do dishes now.

Thanks for all of the help on this!

 

[bigalsf]

Great!

Glad it's working well and you're enjoying it.

The whooshing sounds of a Hobart KA are very unique!

 

[rollermatic]

if you need any more parts

i might have something you can use. i've got pump parts for those 18-20 models. just saw your post now, not on here very often.

i have never had a kd18-20 model that didn't leak around that drain port like yours did. one reason i don't like that design. also, parts are on ebay all the time, pump seals are all over the place, usually about 10 bucks each.

got a ton of racks too plus a kds-18 in the sehed i rebuilt last year that i would give away, i'm more of a earlier model kitchenaid fan, 15 models especially.