Government intrusions
- Thread starter beekeyknee
- Start date
Help Support :
First off, it's not soap, but detergent used for washing clothes, at least if you are buying the stuff in grocery stores so this crank needs to get his terminology right unless he is really using soap in which case you have to use an alkaline product to "break" the water. Then it is not TSP that is used with detergent as a builder, but STPP so he is partly wrong again. He is probably trying to remove tea stains from his garments after his last party.
so what?
Is it not true that modern detergents do not work? Yes, it is true. Is there not a meddlesome agency that says 'thou shalt not!' on almost anything that works? It is so.
What is your point, Turbomatic, that increasing statism is good? Or that you like filthy clothes and dishes?
Is it not true that modern detergents do not work? Yes, it is true. Is there not a meddlesome agency that says 'thou shalt not!' on almost anything that works? It is so.
What is your point, Turbomatic, that increasing statism is good? Or that you like filthy clothes and dishes?
I don't believe that a blanket statement can be made that modern laundry detergents don't work because they do in many, if not most, cases. Dishwasher detergents without phosphates seems to only work best in very soft water. I'm just saying that if he wants any credibility, he should use the proper terms. He writes like he is the first to discover that phosphates help performance when many of us have been railing against their removal from detergents for several decades, but he uses the terms "soap" & "TSP" and has his dry cleaner endorse its use when no launderer who knows his profession would endorse the use of TSP for laundry. I am fortunate to know about phosphates and use them. Many who care about results share the information about the benefits of phosphates or glean that information on various websites. I and others here have endorsed the benefits of STPP here and elsewhere and decried their removal from detergents when most phosphates in bodies of water get there from fertilizers and poop, both from humans and farm animals. We just do not have lobbyists to stand up for our laundry and dishwasher products like commercial interests do.
Neither my clothes nor my dishes are filthy.
Neither my clothes nor my dishes are filthy.
I became suspect immediately when he said the additive for his laundry detergent (unlike STPP) could be found in the paint department, so this isn't a terminology thing. He actually did use TSP and is claiming it helped.
I agree with his message, but TSP? Really?
I agree with his message, but TSP? Really?
Everything I've read on this site indicates STPP is what you want (and you won't find it in the paint department), not TSP. Or STP for that matter. And I think PSSSSSST has been off the market for decades.
@rp2813
I'm lucky I didn't get my Mac to read out your post above with the PSSSSSSST. It would've made a sound (which is actually really funny) that goes something like this: Purssssssssssssssssssssssspt...
Anyway, I'm not old enough to see the benefits Phosphates in detergents, but my experience is this: We buy whatever detergent is on special at our supermarket, since according to our friend that works there, there is a 70% markup on most products - so detergents are quite expensive. Anyhow, I've found the Omo is ALWAYS caked in the box and you need to use at least 5 of the included scoops (probably a 1/3 of a cup each scoop) before you see ANY sign or feeling there is detergent in the water. The water stays clear, not slimy feeling (softened water!) and not cloudy or bubbly. This is HE detergent we are talking about.
Sometimes, we get another detergent "Biozet." (I think, anyway). One scoop in our POS is enough to get cloudy water and some bubbles and it ISN"T caked in the box like Omo.
A friend of ours who works for the government recently got a new washing machine to replace the ancient government issue machine. She didn't switch detergents in the process (TL --> FL machine) and found that she get radically better results than ever before, and I think this is washing in COLD water (probably the problem in the first place).
So people, you have to choose a machine that has been designed from the outset to be useful w/o phosphates or any of the other supposedly "nasty" chemicals. This maybe the reason why European brand washing machines are better performers than US or other countries, where Phosphate bans are still very recent in history and manufacturers are still trying to figure what to do with the problem (Overnight cycle, anyone?)
I'm lucky I didn't get my Mac to read out your post above with the PSSSSSSST. It would've made a sound (which is actually really funny) that goes something like this: Purssssssssssssssssssssssspt...
Anyway, I'm not old enough to see the benefits Phosphates in detergents, but my experience is this: We buy whatever detergent is on special at our supermarket, since according to our friend that works there, there is a 70% markup on most products - so detergents are quite expensive. Anyhow, I've found the Omo is ALWAYS caked in the box and you need to use at least 5 of the included scoops (probably a 1/3 of a cup each scoop) before you see ANY sign or feeling there is detergent in the water. The water stays clear, not slimy feeling (softened water!) and not cloudy or bubbly. This is HE detergent we are talking about.
Sometimes, we get another detergent "Biozet." (I think, anyway). One scoop in our POS is enough to get cloudy water and some bubbles and it ISN"T caked in the box like Omo.
A friend of ours who works for the government recently got a new washing machine to replace the ancient government issue machine. She didn't switch detergents in the process (TL --> FL machine) and found that she get radically better results than ever before, and I think this is washing in COLD water (probably the problem in the first place).
So people, you have to choose a machine that has been designed from the outset to be useful w/o phosphates or any of the other supposedly "nasty" chemicals. This maybe the reason why European brand washing machines are better performers than US or other countries, where Phosphate bans are still very recent in history and manufacturers are still trying to figure what to do with the problem (Overnight cycle, anyone?)
Always follow the money...
The machines at the laundramat have a 3 minute prewash, five minute wash followed by three rinses. Why? so that the owner can push more loads in a day. (28 minutes total) The phosphates were removed so that P and G can sell more detergent-not some trumped up concern for the environment.
I really hope that someone around here decides to sell a twin tub soon....then I can wash for 30 minutes like I would like to.
The machines at the laundramat have a 3 minute prewash, five minute wash followed by three rinses. Why? so that the owner can push more loads in a day. (28 minutes total) The phosphates were removed so that P and G can sell more detergent-not some trumped up concern for the environment.
I really hope that someone around here decides to sell a twin tub soon....then I can wash for 30 minutes like I would like to.
ronhic
Well-known member
Washer111
I'd be interested to know where you are and what machine you are using because to have to use 5 scoops of OMO for front loaders (or He, if you prefer) is ridiculous as I'm sure any Australian on this site will attest to....
...and I've never had a caked box of OMO.
Quite frankly, I think you're speaking out of your bottom!
I'd be interested to know where you are and what machine you are using because to have to use 5 scoops of OMO for front loaders (or He, if you prefer) is ridiculous as I'm sure any Australian on this site will attest to....
...and I've never had a caked box of OMO.
Quite frankly, I think you're speaking out of your bottom!
Laundromat Washing Machines & "Short" Cycles
That simply is the way it tis. A good laundromat owner or those he consults in planning the business knows how many turns at what price are required to pay for the place and hopefully make a profit. All that remains is to determine the number of machines and rates.
Longer cycles would mean more washing machines to accomodate any potential backup of waiting for machines. At our local laundromat it can be hit or miss. Sometimes during a busy day there can be several persons waiting for a free machine, especially the larger ones. Persons often get ticked off and leave.
Commercial H-Axis washers historically did not do long cycles either. However many programs such as for "Cotttons/Whites" would involve six or more changes of water, a majority of which would have been warm or hot (140F to 160F). Because of the aggressive chemicals used such as a much higher pH than one would find in home laundries, strong bleaches/destainers, and so forth within that short cycle time laundry was much cleaner than if it been done with shorter but longer cycles.
When going using laundromat machines one no longer bothers with enzyme detergents, but uses a commercial product from Ecolab that is loaded with STPP. The odd stains are spritzed with enzyme stain remover either before being taken to the place or as they are put into the machine. I reckon the cycle times are so short enzymes aren't going to have enough time to work anyway.
That simply is the way it tis. A good laundromat owner or those he consults in planning the business knows how many turns at what price are required to pay for the place and hopefully make a profit. All that remains is to determine the number of machines and rates.
Longer cycles would mean more washing machines to accomodate any potential backup of waiting for machines. At our local laundromat it can be hit or miss. Sometimes during a busy day there can be several persons waiting for a free machine, especially the larger ones. Persons often get ticked off and leave.
Commercial H-Axis washers historically did not do long cycles either. However many programs such as for "Cotttons/Whites" would involve six or more changes of water, a majority of which would have been warm or hot (140F to 160F). Because of the aggressive chemicals used such as a much higher pH than one would find in home laundries, strong bleaches/destainers, and so forth within that short cycle time laundry was much cleaner than if it been done with shorter but longer cycles.
When going using laundromat machines one no longer bothers with enzyme detergents, but uses a commercial product from Ecolab that is loaded with STPP. The odd stains are spritzed with enzyme stain remover either before being taken to the place or as they are put into the machine. I reckon the cycle times are so short enzymes aren't going to have enough time to work anyway.
If you
are having a tea party... and you spill it on fabric, "Soap" will set a tannin stain!
and if one keeps using "TSP "it will eventually tare up the the material.
*LOL*
are having a tea party... and you spill it on fabric, "Soap" will set a tannin stain!
and if one keeps using "TSP "it will eventually tare up the the material.
*LOL*
@ronhic
Its one of those pretend HE Simpson SWT802's with a broken recirculation pump (And the funny thing is, the machine isn't producing the flashing "wash" light that would suggest that it is, but its broken, I've tricked it into agitating with a spoon in the lid lock/sensor and its stuffed)...
Our water is soft (or softened), but the OMO simply refuses to do anything unless we literally just "pour it in"... And it has been coming to us caked in the box from the supermarket for quite some time now, including from different supermarkets when we've shopped at different places, so you must be getting it from a different source to us (or the storage/transport allows humidity into the OMO, and nothing else we've ever used).
OMO has gone bad this year. Dunno why, but thats the fact. The detergent comes in the box quite solid and you have to get at it with the supplied scoop to loosen it up. And then, well, it doesn't look like it is actually working, as I've said 1 scoop = clear water, no bubbles (some slimy feeling in the water, 2 & 3 scoops = <-- and 4+ scoops = water that starts getting cloudy + some bubbles + slimy water.
I'll tell you here and now I'm not lying. I don't lie wherever possible!
Its one of those pretend HE Simpson SWT802's with a broken recirculation pump (And the funny thing is, the machine isn't producing the flashing "wash" light that would suggest that it is, but its broken, I've tricked it into agitating with a spoon in the lid lock/sensor and its stuffed)...
Our water is soft (or softened), but the OMO simply refuses to do anything unless we literally just "pour it in"... And it has been coming to us caked in the box from the supermarket for quite some time now, including from different supermarkets when we've shopped at different places, so you must be getting it from a different source to us (or the storage/transport allows humidity into the OMO, and nothing else we've ever used).
OMO has gone bad this year. Dunno why, but thats the fact. The detergent comes in the box quite solid and you have to get at it with the supplied scoop to loosen it up. And then, well, it doesn't look like it is actually working, as I've said 1 scoop = clear water, no bubbles (some slimy feeling in the water, 2 & 3 scoops = <-- and 4+ scoops = water that starts getting cloudy + some bubbles + slimy water.
I'll tell you here and now I'm not lying. I don't lie wherever possible!
easy
Well-known member
STPP
Where does one buy STPP? Is it sold as STPP or is there a brand name one should ask for?
What is the amount for a TL washer, FL washer, and a dishwasher? I am interested in trying out the product and seeing if performance is improved as much as many people seem to think it will.
David
Where does one buy STPP? Is it sold as STPP or is there a brand name one should ask for?
What is the amount for a TL washer, FL washer, and a dishwasher? I am interested in trying out the product and seeing if performance is improved as much as many people seem to think it will.
David
sodium tripolyphosphate
can be purchased at SoapGoods, Also ChemStore online.
Dosage depends on how hard your water is, but think somewhere around 1 tsp for dishwasher, and 1-2 Tbls for washing machine usage will work. One of the other members will probably come along, that live in your area, that will know more on exact dosage.
HTH
can be purchased at SoapGoods, Also ChemStore online.
Dosage depends on how hard your water is, but think somewhere around 1 tsp for dishwasher, and 1-2 Tbls for washing machine usage will work. One of the other members will probably come along, that live in your area, that will know more on exact dosage.
HTH
