Grated Laundry Soap Update

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sudsmaster

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As I posted a while back, I've been using a combination of grated soap and STPP in my HE front loader with very good results.

One problem I have had, however, is that the grated soap flakes (really more like "curls") are too big to fit consistently through the detergent dispenser grating on the Neptune 7500.

So, today, after noticing the soap gratings had dried out quite a bit, I tried reducing them to powder in the Cuisinart food processor. That worked very well, turning them into granules not much bigger than an average powdered detergent. The resultant powder dispensed much better, although I find I still need to meter the addition along with the initial wash water for best results.

This worked for both the grated Ivory bar soap and the Lirio laundry bar soap. I'm in the process of letting more Lirio bar soap "curls" dry out in a baking tray in the sun so I can reduce that to a powder as well.

Another advantage of the powder is that it's easier to measure more accurately than the grating curls.
 
Yes, "powdered" soap works much better than the shavings variety. Think I posted several times that my vintage Fels bars are so old they pretty much have nil to very low water content, thus grate into powder straight away. When one grates the newer soaps such as Savon de Marsielle, they tend to grate into curls because they are still very moist. You may wish to leave your soap bars out somewhere unwrapped and warm to allow them to dry out.

Have stopped grating Fels all toghether and simply put the bar into a large Pyrex measuring cup, fill with boiling water, and swish the bar around until I think there is enough "liquid", then take the bar out. This liquid is then carefully poured into the dispenser drawer as the washing machine is filling.

Really do not use Fels that often these days, as am concerned about soap residue rotting out laundry and or parts of the washing machine. But find it is very useful for some types of stains and removing heavy perfume/scents from laundry.

L.
 
Fels

Fels is not so bad, but most of today's machines can't cope with it. My old Amanatag only had cold rinses so the Fels just wouldn't rinse out so well unless you stopped the cycle after the wash and reset the timer and used a fresh hot wash as the rinse. My Maytag A208 has a hot wash and a warm rinse which is a bit better, but I still only grate some Fels when I have the time and need something to keep my attention, or have some seriously nasty stains.

All these new detergents (mostly liquid Tide), but sometimes a bit of good old fashioned Fels Naptha is all that is needed to get the laundry clean, and with a sent that is a trip back in time to boot!

Long live the Fels,
Dave
 
Should have added, never use Fels on it's own, rather in conjuction with either a powder or liquid detergent. Even then it was more to keep the sudsing down when using non-HE versions in my Miele, but since have put my machine on a strict "HE" detergent diet, the need for Fels or any other soap has greatly diminished. Again, mainly use Fels to help remove heavy perfume/scent. It is the solvent,especially the Naptha in vintage Fels that does the trick. Fels is still my hands on favourite spotting treatment for non-protien/tannin based stains such as ink, lipstick and so forth. Stuff can shift practically about anything.

Using small amounts of soap in conjuction with normal detergent shouldn't cause that much problems with either laundry and or washing machines. After all Persil, Arm & Hammer amoung other detergents all contain small amounts of soap. Then there are the special laundry detergents (mainly light duty for linens and danties) that are soap based but also contain surfactants and maybe enzymes.

L.
 
Sorry, Cimberlie, I don't think I ever caught your comments about dried out old Fels soap bars. But I remember posting the same thing about the first batch of Ivory soap bars I grated. They were so dry that the gratings were really more like powder. But not as fine a powder as the result of using the Cuisinart grinding blade. I imagine the powder, in addition to flowing better into the washer, also dissolves a bit faster than the thick grated curls.

I'm not too concerned about soap build-up, since I always couple the soap with STPP, which does a fine job of preventing soap curd. I also run at least one load a week of regular HE detergent, so that may help as well.

Additionally, the Neptune 7500 has the nifty feature of running the first rinse at the same temperature as the wash water, if you select the "stain cycle" option. I've modified all the favorites selections to include the stain cycle. It lengthens the wash cycle, but I've compensated for that by choosing a 10 minute wash instead of the usual 16 minute. And of course the cycle I created for whites uses hot wash, hot rinse, 34 minute wash, stain cycle, the works. Using just Ivory soap and STPP, everything comes out nearly blindingly white. No yellowing or graying that I can detect.

Well, back to the garden chores. Just chopped down a persimmon tree that was mistakenly (by me) planted right in the middle of the vegetable growing area. It did shred very nicely :). It helps that I'm not too fond of persimmons in the first place, but I admit it was a pretty tree and I postponed chopping it down as long as I could. Now I get to remove the stump (might save it to see if it will resprout in a container) and rototill the new planting ground.

And of course all that will result in more dirty laundry! Yaaay!
 
I quit using 'soap', too. I'd ordered some online and it cleaned well, was low-sudsing and left towels soft, but it didn't like going from a hot wash to a cold rinse and I was also concerned (as you were, Launderess) about gunk building up in the washer, especially when there were quick changes in water temp from hot to cold.

Had a nice scent, too, it did.
 
All soaps are made from fats and oils, which are prime breeding ground for all sorts of germs.

Cannot say the two are related, but when cleaning out the lint trap of my Miele (which one does not do all that often as there never is anything in there worth bothering about), for the first time noticed lots of blackish crud around the filter/pump area. Now this could be nothing, but decided it was wise to stick to HE detergents and leave the soap for twin tub or special uses.

L.
 
Actually, while soap is made from fats and oils, it is modified so that it is not particularly appetizing to bacteria. Basically a fat or oil is a triglyceride. This means that it's a glycerine molecule to which are attached three fatty acids. The length of the fatty acid chains determines the nature of the fat or oil. Saturated fatty acids are more rigid, hence a saturated fat is more solid at room temperature. Unsataturated bonds cause the fatty acid to be more flexible, hence the tendency of unsaturated fats to be more liquid at room temperature.

During the soap making or saponification process, a strong alkali like lye breaks the bonds between the fatty acids and the glycering backbone, and the result is a salt of the fatty acid - the soap molecule - and a glycerine molecule. I don't think the soap molecules are food for bacteria - if anything soap molecules are hostile to bacterial growth. The glycerine may be another matter, but soaps like Ivory have little to no glycerine (hence they are not as moisturizing as soaps that retain the glycerine).

This is all from memory and educated guesswork on my part based on my chemistry and biology background. When I get a chance I'll look into the specifics of germs and soap and see if there is any cause for concern.
 
Those of us who are old enough remember that Ivory Snow was advertised as being "granulated for machine efficiency" because the original flake form, Ivory Flakes, had problems with clumping, etc., especially if added before the agitation started.
 
When I grate Fels, I need a face mask or ensure that I am upwind. Fels tends to grate into an extremely fine powder for me.

OTOH, when I use the KA shredder, I get short curls that dissolve quickly in the wash.

I always use the Delicate cycle on the Miele when using soap because the wash time is shorter and the water level is very high. After the wash period is over, I quit the Delicate cycle and restart the Cotton cycle at the first rinse. Haven't seen a problem rinsing in cold water 4 times...
 
Jetcone,

Thanks.

I did some googling on "bacterial growth on soap" and didn't come up with much more than the idea that soap scum on shower walls may encourage the growth of some bacterial like the pinkish red Serratia marscesens. Not sure if the bacteria is eating the soap scum or if it's just giving the bacteria a foothold.

However, in thinking about it, soap scum happens when hard water minerals displace the sodium or potassium ion on the soap molecule. The mineral-soap molecule then falls out of solution as a waxy scum. (By the way, mineral soaps are a prime ingredient of various industrial greases). It's possible that a mineral soap is no longer as hostile to bacterial growth as the original soap molecule, since it's no longer a good surfactant.

My solution for all this is to make sure enough STPP is in the wash water to ensure that hard water minerals are bound up by the STPP instead of by the soap. This allows the soap molecules to do their surfactant thing without forming scum.

It's possible that STPP substitutes like washing soda or zeolites will also prevent soap scum. Washing soda, however, forms its own hard precipitate with minerals and is not the best thing.
 
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