whirlcool
Well-known member
To me in that photo she kinda looks like a guy in a dress.
But THAT's what sexy was back then!
But THAT's what sexy was back then!
Gratuitous photo of Joan Crawford
- Thread starter brettsomers
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Whatever floats your boat. LOL
(ducks and runs.. LOL)
Just kidding.
(ducks and runs.. LOL)
Just kidding.
brettsomers
Well-known member
- Joined
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in defense of Crawford
despite my better judgement, i will add a little to hopefully add some nuance to the crawford story. several things cant be disputed, she was a known alcoholic, she was an authoritative figure, and she was very emotionally needy/wounded. she grew up in poverty with her brother hal. her biological father deserted the family soon after joan was born. joans mother worked as a laundress (no joke) and life was not easy. no home, only rented rooms and work at an early age. joans mother anna heavily favoured her (more conventionally attractive) brother hal, and most of the chores were joans to do. one of joans few joys in her childhood was her adoptive father named cassin. he doted on little joan and she was allowed to participate in his vaudville/roadshow. this joy was not to last because cassin left the family and joan without a goodbye, before joan was a teenager. she never (i think) fully recovered from her father abandoning her. all she had was her mother. and mother was busy working and to add insult, her brother hal was moms standout favorite. in short, joan grew up having NOBODY to rely on. she really grew up feeling not loved. she had to rely on her OWN strength. this is one area where i strongly identify with joan. fast forward to her success, the reason joan loved her fans so much is because she was starved for love. but of course, the love of movie fans is no substitute for true love. i think when a child grows up feeling unloved or abandoned, they dont ever realy LEARN HOW to love. i suspect she believed adopting children would somehow complete her or make her happy. but as we know, children dont grow up knowing what gratitude is. and why should they, raising children is a labor of love. imagine a person so starved for approval and affection faced with an opinionated headstrong child. my mother was very similar to joan in this respect. the regular stubborn-ness that children often give was interpreted by joan as feeling unloved or unaccepted. add alcohol to the mix and the result is not pretty. a person who achieves the success of crawford often has to endure countless indignities on the way to the top. for someone with joans unfortunate past and current great success, rebellion from a child is a hard pill to swallow. joan was used to doing things HER WAY. and as folks with children know, you cant fight every battle. its not healthy. it is widely believed that joan knew about christinas plans to write "the book" before she died. i think christina actually did begin writing the book before joan died. joan disinherited her as a result. the opinionated and headstrong christina MUST have been affected deeply by this. although not too important, i should add that some of joans best friends throught her life were gay men. william haines, a popular mgm actor in the 1920s took her under his wing back when she was a nobody and was her best friend till his death in the 70s. she was also devoted to ceasar romero (gay) who she called "butch". joan first became a star in the late 1920s as a jazz-dancing "flapper" and continued to have her name above the title into the 1960s, albeit in less prestigious films. she was probably a bad mother. she was undoubtedly a troubled and wounded soul who through sheer will and discipline carried on and did what she had to do to be one of the most successfull actors in cinema history. please dont hold this rant against me folks. the end, David
despite my better judgement, i will add a little to hopefully add some nuance to the crawford story. several things cant be disputed, she was a known alcoholic, she was an authoritative figure, and she was very emotionally needy/wounded. she grew up in poverty with her brother hal. her biological father deserted the family soon after joan was born. joans mother worked as a laundress (no joke) and life was not easy. no home, only rented rooms and work at an early age. joans mother anna heavily favoured her (more conventionally attractive) brother hal, and most of the chores were joans to do. one of joans few joys in her childhood was her adoptive father named cassin. he doted on little joan and she was allowed to participate in his vaudville/roadshow. this joy was not to last because cassin left the family and joan without a goodbye, before joan was a teenager. she never (i think) fully recovered from her father abandoning her. all she had was her mother. and mother was busy working and to add insult, her brother hal was moms standout favorite. in short, joan grew up having NOBODY to rely on. she really grew up feeling not loved. she had to rely on her OWN strength. this is one area where i strongly identify with joan. fast forward to her success, the reason joan loved her fans so much is because she was starved for love. but of course, the love of movie fans is no substitute for true love. i think when a child grows up feeling unloved or abandoned, they dont ever realy LEARN HOW to love. i suspect she believed adopting children would somehow complete her or make her happy. but as we know, children dont grow up knowing what gratitude is. and why should they, raising children is a labor of love. imagine a person so starved for approval and affection faced with an opinionated headstrong child. my mother was very similar to joan in this respect. the regular stubborn-ness that children often give was interpreted by joan as feeling unloved or unaccepted. add alcohol to the mix and the result is not pretty. a person who achieves the success of crawford often has to endure countless indignities on the way to the top. for someone with joans unfortunate past and current great success, rebellion from a child is a hard pill to swallow. joan was used to doing things HER WAY. and as folks with children know, you cant fight every battle. its not healthy. it is widely believed that joan knew about christinas plans to write "the book" before she died. i think christina actually did begin writing the book before joan died. joan disinherited her as a result. the opinionated and headstrong christina MUST have been affected deeply by this. although not too important, i should add that some of joans best friends throught her life were gay men. william haines, a popular mgm actor in the 1920s took her under his wing back when she was a nobody and was her best friend till his death in the 70s. she was also devoted to ceasar romero (gay) who she called "butch". joan first became a star in the late 1920s as a jazz-dancing "flapper" and continued to have her name above the title into the 1960s, albeit in less prestigious films. she was probably a bad mother. she was undoubtedly a troubled and wounded soul who through sheer will and discipline carried on and did what she had to do to be one of the most successfull actors in cinema history. please dont hold this rant against me folks. the end, David
"This is not my first time at the rodeo boys, so don't F**K with me fellas"!
Yes, Miss. Crawford was most certinaly a "broad" in the every possible sense of the word.
As for her being able to adopt children, it was a different world then. Those with wealth, fame and or connections were protected by many people, including those charged with enforcing/judging the law. There was a whole lot of dirt behind many famous persons, both Hollywood types and elsewhere that would be impossible to hide in this Internet/24 hour cable tell all for a price world.
Yes, Miss. Crawford was most certinaly a "broad" in the every possible sense of the word.
As for her being able to adopt children, it was a different world then. Those with wealth, fame and or connections were protected by many people, including those charged with enforcing/judging the law. There was a whole lot of dirt behind many famous persons, both Hollywood types and elsewhere that would be impossible to hide in this Internet/24 hour cable tell all for a price world.
You Couldn't Do This To Me If I Wasn't In This Wheel
But ya are Blanche! But ya are!
*LOL*
But ya are Blanche! But ya are!
*LOL*
Nothing excuses harming children, not if you are rich, famous, alcoholic, abused as a child, have a temper, have personality disorders, are insane or ordained. Nothing. And the thing is, nobody would know anything about life in that hellish household unless the daughter told her side. Bette Davis' daughter told about growing up with a woman who was no model of a maternal figure in anyone's eyes, but was not the psychotic child abuser that Joan Crawford was. I kept hoping that Christina would push that witch over the railing on the stairs. I would have done it and made sure I stepped on her throat when she landed before half of what she did could happen. Hell, even if they could prove she offed her, it would be juvenile until she was 21, just a different prison than the one her mother ran.
jasonl
New member
Damn right, Tommie Dearest
There's no excuse for being a bad mother. And what a @#%$% she was!
Lifestyles of the rich and infamous!
There's no excuse for being a bad mother. And what a @#%$% she was!
Lifestyles of the rich and infamous!
jasonl
New member
Eyebrows
It's kind of amazing how the shape of someone's eyebrows can make you feel about that person.
If they are slanted up towards the middle of the head, it gives an impression of a kind, more compassionate person.
And those that point DOWN towards the nose gives a mean, nasty, or wicked kind of look.
And Joan's, well, they just make you run far far away from this evil woman. Just look at that black and white pic. Doesn't that turn you on, Str8 guys? I didn't think so.
And of course, some women pull theirs off to get that wicked, sneaky look.
It's kind of amazing how the shape of someone's eyebrows can make you feel about that person.
If they are slanted up towards the middle of the head, it gives an impression of a kind, more compassionate person.
And those that point DOWN towards the nose gives a mean, nasty, or wicked kind of look.
And Joan's, well, they just make you run far far away from this evil woman. Just look at that black and white pic. Doesn't that turn you on, Str8 guys? I didn't think so.
And of course, some women pull theirs off to get that wicked, sneaky look.
I think she is also wearing a Fembot bra. Deadly if you bump into her, even more deadly across the firing range from her. I like a high caliber woman!
Are hers like the ones on the front of Cadillacs in the mid & late 50s?
jasonl
New member
It's not the boobs, it's the attitude behind the boobs. Whoa, yeah, looks like a fembot to me.
Maybe she was some experiment of the Gubberment.
Maybe she was some experiment of the Gubberment.
Oh, And By The Way
There is name for you ladies, only it isn't used in high society; outside of a kennel.
There is name for you ladies, only it isn't used in high society; outside of a kennel.
michaelman2
Well-known member
Well all...she has us still talking about her...some impression she made. Kind of like this "Anna Nicole Smith" thing...the stranger they appear the more they are talked about.
Regarding child abuse:
No one said it should be/should have been condoned, just that it was hard to go up against "powerful" people at that time. The doctor who was a suspect in the "Black Dahlia" murder apparently did all sorts of horrible things to his daughter (and allowed his other famous male friends to do so as well), but when charges were finally brought, not one person would stand up in court against the man, so the jury let him off.
Joan Crawford like Bette Davis remain larger than life for various reasons; though IMHO Bette Davis was a far better actress, and certianly had better roles that spring to mind,than JC. Aside from "The Women" and "Mildred Pierce", cannot recall many JC film roles. Oh there is "The Best of Everything" but JC was not the "star" of that film, IIRC.
L.
No one said it should be/should have been condoned, just that it was hard to go up against "powerful" people at that time. The doctor who was a suspect in the "Black Dahlia" murder apparently did all sorts of horrible things to his daughter (and allowed his other famous male friends to do so as well), but when charges were finally brought, not one person would stand up in court against the man, so the jury let him off.
Joan Crawford like Bette Davis remain larger than life for various reasons; though IMHO Bette Davis was a far better actress, and certianly had better roles that spring to mind,than JC. Aside from "The Women" and "Mildred Pierce", cannot recall many JC film roles. Oh there is "The Best of Everything" but JC was not the "star" of that film, IIRC.
L.
P.S. That Pose
Pure Hollywood studio system coaching/taught,they just do not produce actresses/actors like that any more. What passes for "acting" today must have screen stars from the 30's though 50's turning in their graves. Those living like Lauren Bacall, Elizabeth Taylor and others are right to put down the PR hype that persons such as Miss. Paltrow are "legends".
L.
Pure Hollywood studio system coaching/taught,they just do not produce actresses/actors like that any more. What passes for "acting" today must have screen stars from the 30's though 50's turning in their graves. Those living like Lauren Bacall, Elizabeth Taylor and others are right to put down the PR hype that persons such as Miss. Paltrow are "legends".
L.
brettsomers
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
- Messages
- 1,993
as miss Davis once said...
about special effects being popular in movies... " im my day we had ONE special effect... TALENT."
about special effects being popular in movies... " im my day we had ONE special effect... TALENT."
I'm with Jason on this. I never found Joan Crawford to be attractive, just kind of scary, even a little grotesque. This was well before "Mommie Dearest" was published, too. It's kind of amazing that the Crawford look was what Hollywood and the American public wanted in those years (30's through 40's), but there you have it.
I recall that a secretary where I worked when the movie version was released was outraged by what she regarded as tattle-telling by Christina. She felt it was wrong for children to reveal such things about their deceased parents. On the other hand, the secretary's secret lifelong ambition was to go to school to learn how to apply makeup on dead bodies to make them look lifelike and beautiful again. There may be a lesson there.
I recall that a secretary where I worked when the movie version was released was outraged by what she regarded as tattle-telling by Christina. She felt it was wrong for children to reveal such things about their deceased parents. On the other hand, the secretary's secret lifelong ambition was to go to school to learn how to apply makeup on dead bodies to make them look lifelike and beautiful again. There may be a lesson there.
customline
Well-known member
Well............
The fact is, Joan Crawford's adoption of two children was merely a front. This gesture was made to make her look good to the public and to win the public's affection. These issues about abuse desperately need to be revealed and examined out in the open so abuse cannot happen again to anyone. Also, she loved her fans but she knew she needed her fans to succeed. It wasn't love at all really, it was good business sense.
The fact is, Joan Crawford's adoption of two children was merely a front. This gesture was made to make her look good to the public and to win the public's affection. These issues about abuse desperately need to be revealed and examined out in the open so abuse cannot happen again to anyone. Also, she loved her fans but she knew she needed her fans to succeed. It wasn't love at all really, it was good business sense.
Reminds me of something rumored to be a true story.
During an adoption interview, never ask for an Asian child because it continues the theme of your Oriental-style furniture /decorating.
How gross is that?
During an adoption interview, never ask for an Asian child because it continues the theme of your Oriental-style furniture /decorating.
How gross is that?
hoover1060
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- Apr 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,309
define abuse please
I grew up with parents that believed in discipline. I was not abused, but certainly got the deserved smack here and there. I think my parents did a good job raising me and my sister.
In today's PC society you can't even smack an unruly child on the butt without someone calling it child abuse. Thats just plain BS.
To quote my father "Nothing wrong with these kids today a good swift kick in the A** wouldn't fix"
I grew up with parents that believed in discipline. I was not abused, but certainly got the deserved smack here and there. I think my parents did a good job raising me and my sister.
In today's PC society you can't even smack an unruly child on the butt without someone calling it child abuse. Thats just plain BS.
To quote my father "Nothing wrong with these kids today a good swift kick in the A** wouldn't fix"
