HE toploader suggestions?

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~Can be just as effective as "deep" rinses, if carried out properly

..........and "IF" is the biggest word in he English language!

I personally would love to see some spray rinses in front-loaders, but from what I have heard the construction of same differs from T/L-ers and spray rinses may atually stir up foam that is outside the cylinder.
 
See Laundress...

...it all comes down to semantics. You should have used 'when' instead of 'if'.

Cheers
 
Anyonone's singular experience with one type of machine

Q: If spray rinses are jsut as good as deep rinses why wasn't this method used decades ago?

A: There are limitations as to HOW and WHEN spray rinses are just as effective. Overall maybe not as effective, or desirable.

I'm thinking that it is jsut not possible to saturate every squre inch of clothing with a spray rinse. In a spinning tub segments are folded and doubled over themselves.
 
Well spray rinses wouldn't work that well with soap as the primary detergent for one thing. Unless soap was well mixed with wash water before laundry added, globs of the stuff would stick to fabric and get caught up in folds.

For spray rinses to be a true replacement for deep rinses, several factors must be taken into account:

First tub must slow down enough for water to actually penetrate laundry, rather than merely get bounced off wash that is being whizzed too fast.

The above means the washer is going to need a pretty powerful motor to handle spinning several heavy wet rinse/spin cycles without over heating.

Water must be directed towards laundry at proper angles and in proper form. The aforementioned Unimac twin tubs use a diffuser from a center post (not unlike the old Easy Twin Tubs, no?), to spray laundry with a mist of water, which penetrates laundry faster and better, allowing for saturation.

Not withstanding all of the above, some items/loads are best handled with a traditional rinse cycle. If find while most wash loads of mixed items or single items like lightweight bed sheets are fine for spray rinse in the Hoover, heavy items like a duvet cover are best rinsed in the tub. Of course the hold housewife trick was to rearranged large heavy items after several spray rinses, then do several more.

Would certianly use normal rinses where chlorine bleach was used as well.

With today's technology, adding some sort of water sensor to washing machines,to watch for a clean rinse would eliminate the guess work out of spray rinses. Machine could simply be programmed to rinse until a desired turbidity/clarity level of water was achieved.

L.
 
-Jamie said they were dedicated users of Downy and would not consider using dryer sheets. That is why spin rinses are not suitable. You cannot use spin rinses with softener. Spin rinsing may be quite effective without softener, but you would have to convince them to give up softener.

-Front loaders almost always use a lot less water then even HE top loaders. As the drainage at this address is such a problem, only a front loader has any hope of pumping out in small enough quantities for the drain to keep up. Any top loader which actually fills up (required for softener) is going to require a lot of manual intervention to keep its drain flows down, (as they have been doing with the Maytag)hence my suggestions to come up with a device to catch and slow down the waste water, or to just bite the bullet and upgrade the plumbing.

- Jamie invited our suggestions. I'm pretty confident he has the intelligence and maturity to consider them, and decide which he will pass on to his friends, and which he will weed out, for his own reasons.

Chris.
 
Isn't there somebody here who actually owns and uses one of these HE top loaders? How much more water does a Cabrio, Aquasmart or Oasis use in comparison to a regular front loader? They don't appear to do a full immersion wash like a regular top loader. Don't they apply the same principle for rinsing, as they do for washing? They do come with a fabric softener dispenser.

I'd like to know please.

rapunzel
 
I thought someone had posted a clip of their Calypso or other similar HE toploader in action here a while back. Maybe it's still locatable on YouTube if that's where it was originally posted.
 
Also, if you look at the AquaSmart manual, it'll tell you how much water it uses on High Efficiency mode:

Load Size ... High Efficiency Mode

15.5 lb (7 kg) ... 22 G (82 L)
11 lb (5 kg) ... 18 G (69 L)
7 lb (3 kg) ... 16 G (60 L)
2 lb (1 kg) ... 14 G (54 L)

The original version from New Zealand, interstingly, has a larger capacity:

Load Size .. High Efficiency .. Conventional
8 kg.... 84 L ..... 165 L
5 kg.... 69 L ..... 147 L
3 kg.... 60 L ..... 123 L
1 kg.... 54 L ..... 88 L

The older version of the U.S. AquaSmart manual stated that the washer would automatically add softener, if the Softener Rinse option (deep final rinse) was selected. There was no bleach dispenser, rather a Bleach option that would alert the user to manually bleach add to the wash cycle by pausing and beeping. The new manual has is reversed (almost). Now, the FS dispenser is for bleach, there is a Bleach option to automatically add bleach to the wash - but there is nothing to add softener. Dryer sheets is what F&P recommend to use.
 
Calypsos do a lot of rinsing and softener can always be used, not quite comparable as an example of shower rinsing compared to the new HE machines.

My F&P GWL08 and IWL12 can do shower rinses of course, and have options to adjust how much water is used. IWL12 has six rinse options (Spray/Deep, Single Deep, Double Deep, Shower, Shower Save Water AAA, Shower Eco AAAA). I've tried shower rinse a few times, works well. Softener can't be used. The saturation sprays are much longer than what I see on the Oasis videos and the pump may run simultaneously for a flush-rinse. Hmm, I wonder if a wash plate would retrofit to an IWL12?
 
One very important component of the Unimac's spin spray rinsing is the water filter. The spinner water line has a very good filter in it to keep the minerals and stuff in good water from being filtered through the clothes which leaves terrible streaks. Also, that spinner tub is in a large compartment which allows the resulting suds and water to be thrown far from the spinning basket so that it is not slowed. Perhaps the main reason the Unimac can get by with just spray rinsing is that the fabrics are lifted from the wash water and placed in the spinner, leaving heavy soil particles behind. The removal of heavy soil in this process is not dependent on draining and straining the wash water while the fabrics are in the tub. The Collapso was very bad with pet hair because there was no way for it to float off while the fabrics were surrounded by water. Of course, if pet or body hair is not a problem, that type of cleaning system works OK.

I do some spin spraying to suppplement the deep rinses when I rinse in one of the top loaders. I use one of those plant watering diffusers which create a soft "rainfall" type of spray which does not bounce off the fabrics and yes, the spray has to be focused on the spinning load. The spray has to be held so that the water flows onto the fabrics in the direction in which they are spinning, not just downward from an overhead shot. The Unimac's dedicated spinner tub with the water inlet in the center of the top is far more likely to give dependable, uniform rinsing than most top loader sprays. While the spray rinse provided between the wash and rinse in the Maytags and my older KitchenAid is effective for preliminary flushing of the machine and the load, I have found it is best not to dilute the detergent solution in the fabrics too much before the deep rinse so that enough detergent remains to flush the soil from the fabrics and keep it suspended in the rinse water before it is drained away. After the rinse, in the final spin, is the best time for final dilution of any remaining cleaning products unless the wash was way over dosed with detergent and suds are a problem. The most efficient spray rinsing also requires that the clothing be in as thin a layer as possible which is why the spin/drain in the Maytag is desirable and is why I interrupt the drain in the KA to create a spin/drain in it.

It must have been here that I saw a link to a modern front loader that gave the spinning load fine sprays to help remove detergent. When I washed a huge load of 8 bath sheets in the Duet yesterday, I used Arm & Hammer HE detergent. After it started to spin, a remarkably well-balanced spin, it stopped because of suds between the basket and outer tub. I opened the dispenser drawer and used the hose connected with a Y to the extra hot and cold faucets to introduce a small flow of cold water into the machine. It helped with the suds in the sump and I was quite surprised that the flow of water provided a bit of spin rinsing as the load began to spin again. I was only trying to flush suds so that it would spin. After the first spin, I rinsed the load in the KA then spun 4 at a time at 1600 rpm in the W1918.
 
Depending on how much an issue price is, a Calypso would fit the need. Top load,, uses water and detergent sparingly, has a huge capacity and does a load in 40 - 45 minutes or so. It has lots of options which they may or may not need, but they can still be found at Sears Outlets or other appliance stores as new machines. They tend to be a little pricey though, and don't wash well at all if overloaded. Its high speed spin will make shorter work of laundry day for sure. Just a thought....it's not a machine for everyone.
 
All rinsing is a function of dilution. Doesn't matter if one sprays, wipes down, immerses or whatever in clean water, long as the process is done correctly to dilute detergents,soils and muck out of laundry, each method has it's virtues.

What would help matters greatly is if all Amercian laundry products were clean rinsing. Products like Tide are for the most part designed for top loading washing and full tub "deep rinsing" in mind. Add to this many consumers use way too much laundry detergent, then to top things off bung lots of other "boosters" in as well, means rinsing is going to be difficult without one or perhaps more deep rinses. Spray rinses would work, but not many top loaders besides F&P are designed to give good results on that front.

L.
 
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