Health Care Reform takes the first procedural hurdle in the Senate

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I work in the healthcare industry, and to a large degree "the poor" (as in those living below the Poverty Level) are already taken care of in the form of Medicaid. In fact, they oftentimes receive better healthcare than those with commercial health insurance.

The ones who are truly hurting are the working class, whose employers don't offer healthcare because they either can't afford it or don't want to offer it because of the expense.

I've been keeping up with these "Healthcare Reform Bills" for several months now, and I honestly believe that the entire healthcare reform agenda has become more about politics than about the People. I believe that we need healthcare reform, but not in the way that our Government is planning on doing it through these most recent Bills.

It seems to me like the Democrats are working much harder to secure political victories than they are at working to truly make life better for the ones whom they serve. The Republicans are no help either, in that they are either unable or unwilling to come up with anything better, and therefore have just resigned themselves to vote against anything that the Dems put on the table. Obama just wants SOMETHING to pass so that he can go into the history books as "The President Who Reformed Healthcare", even though it will cost billions of dollars to do it and it will not cover everyone who needs help.

Here's what I believe will happen. Those of us who pay our own health insurance (as I do for myself and my employees) will see significant rate increases in our premiums once Healthcare Reform is passed. At that point, it will become impossible for small business like mine to be able to offer healthcare to our employees, and we will more-than-likely have to go without health coverage for a significant period of time before any Government plan kicks in to cover us.

This will only exacerbate the current problem we have now, thus causing "crisis" situations for many of our doctors and hospitals. At that point I suspect the Government will have to "bail-out" hospitals just like they have done with banks and the auto industry, which will then lead to some type of Government-run healthcare system. My concern is that if this happens, the Government-run system could look very much like other Government-run healthcare institutions such as the Veterans Administration (VA), which is notorious for lower-quality healthcare than what many currently receive here in the US.

I would love to see someone step up who is willing to get their hands dirty and actually invest the time and energy that it is going to take to reform healthcare properly. I would much rather have QUALITY healthcare reforms that will actually help those in need while not hurting those who currently do have health insurance. I believe we need someone who is more concerned with the health and welfare of the American people than with his or her political career.

Here's what we need to reform healthcare properly:

1. Lower prescription costs. Drugs are expensive. I realize that it takes a lot of money for R&D, but I believe that we need more competition for LOWER COST DRUGS. So let's not have our Government make deals with drug companies to prevent international trade of drugs. Let's provide lower cost drugs for the little old ladies on Social Security who are making a whopping $600.00 per month and have to pay $750.00 per month for their prescriptions.

2. Increased efforts at identifying and penalizing healthcare providers for committing Medicare, Medicaid and Insurance Fraud. I have worked with physicians in the past who are committing blatant Medicare Fraud. After reporting them to the OIG (Office of the Inspector General - the Governmental Department that handles Medicare and Medicaid Fraud), I was told on more than one occasion that they won't even LOOK at a case of fraud that involves less than $1,000,000.00.

3. Tort Reform - Doctors screw up. Some deserve to get sued. Other times patients die because they are non-compliant, too sick, or it's just their time to go. Greedy patients and families who don't want to work for the rest of their lives shouldn't be able to sue for millions of dollars just because they see an opportunity to get rich. Tort reform would help weed out those who just want to get rich quick from those who truly deserve retribution for legitimate mistakes made by doctors and hospitals.

While I don't have it all figured out, I do believe that the focus needs to be placed on the PEOPLE, and not the POLITICIANS who are here to serve the People.

Bryan
 
Bryan,

In California, and I suspect the rest of the nation, you have to be basically destitute to qualify for Medicaid. You can't have more than $2000 in assets, for example. As you say, the working poor would be ineligible for this coverage.

I don't think there will be anything near the financial sector bailout. Primarily because the financial sector was engaging in extremely risky unregulated quasi-legal gambling, in the name of credit swaps, derivatives, hedge funds.

I also doubt that employers will be dropping coverage. There is nobody forcing them to provide coverage today - they do that today to try to attract good employees and to reduce hits on productivity due to ill health. The health plans that really need a kick in the pants are the individual plans and those available to very small businesses - with ridiculously high deductables and copays, limitations on pre-existing conditions, etc. The name of the game is group coverage, and the bigger the group, the better. If the health care reform bill can allow small employers to become part of a much larger group for insurance purposes, then I think we'll see better coverage for lower rates than they currently pay.
 
What puzzles me endlessly

is why the entire rest of the civilized world has been able to solve this problem and the US, alone, can't.

The only thing I can think of is that too many lower to middle-class white people resent the idea of Negroes and Mexican immigrants being treated decently, so they cut their own noses off to spite their faces.
 
is why the entire rest of the civilized world has been able

It's called you basically tax the freakin hell out of income and no one has much income to take home and you end up with average health care--what Iv'e seen and heard of in Britain and Canada.
 
I prefer the better system we have now and figure out a way to help the woring class who are squeezed in the middle. That's where reform needs to be.
 
Bob,

What you've heard is, I'm sorry, there's no way to put it gently, is totally wrong.
Completely, absolutely.
I've lived in Europe for 26 years now and, really, the information you're getting is wrong.
Would you like some independent sources?
 
It technically costs us 1.5% of our taxable income for Universal Healthcare.
http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/17482.htm
Yes Dollars go into healthcare otherwise, but here are our standard tax tables.
http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/12333.htm
Our system isnt perfect, but I'm comfortable in the fact that a Visit to my GP costs me $16 out of pocket, most of my medications cost no more than $30 per script and that if I needed life threatening surgery I have the choice of going through the public system, or paying the gap payment and using my Private Health Insurance.

My Private Health insurance costs me $130 per month and covers hospital, dental, optical, alternative therapys, physio, chrio and almost anything else you can think of. Based on the 1.5% medicare levy, I pay about $60 per month for my Universal Health care. That would seem to be a lot less than the US for the guarentee that I'll always have the care I need, and the comfort of knowing if I ever need to go to an emergency room, I'll walk out of there with no cost to myself.
 
I think there should be some health care reform, to benefit senior citizens and the working poor, and working in a hospital I see first hand that those on Medicaid usually get better coverage than we do.
I think the reforms they are trying to push are a big mistake and will only cause more harm than good, I am very much against the current reform plans.
 
Nathan,

The going rate for paying 100% for employer based group coverage here is about $400 to $500 per month. Currently I pay about $90/month for my share of the employer coverage (about 20%). Doctor visits are a $20 copay. ER: $100. Hospitalization, after a $1500 deductible, basically paid for. Meds, $20 generic, $30 brand name, $50 non-formulary. I do 3 mo mail order prescriptions, and currently pay about $60/month for medications. This will go up to $80/month once my "stockpile" of blood glucose test strips runs out - and I'll have to switch to a different meter system.

When I was unemployed at the start of the year, I was paying close to $400/month to continue my employer based group health insurance. Then Obama stepped in and subsidized these payments at 65%, so I was paying about $140, which wasn't so bad. It was complicated by the fact that my former employer failed to renew the group policy properly, but was still accepting my payments, and around June of this year I started getting dunned by the HMO (Kaiser) for hundreds in medical bills they say were retroactively not covered. Nice. It took until September to straighten it all out, with the assistance of the Department of Labor. It gave me a very sour view of medical insurance company practices (yes, they can retroactively cancel your policy). So I'm all for this reform bill and hope it passes sooner rather than later.
 
Good grief Bob are you brainwashed or what and worse you've gone made me have to agree with Keven for once,, I'll never live it down, well I will but it makes it sound more dramatic. A pox on you and your house!!!!,, I hope you have insurance to get treated for it LOL
 
The real Holy Grail, in this dispute is obviously the American Antitrust Laws that ALL health care Insurance companies, enjoy in the U.S.A. To think outside the box, why not import foreign health care, from the Insurance to the Doctors and nurses, just as an experiment. I once worked with an IV nurse, that became ill while visiting her native Phillipines, her diagnosis heat exhaustion and electrolyte imbalance she was in the hospital for 2 days receiving fluids. She showed me her bill (now this was in the 1990's) it was $35.00. If you have been blessed with good health, the reality is a nice short ride in an ambulance is approx 1K. Lets try some Hontoyfujidai, healthcare. Having worked in the healthcare system for over 21 years please know ALL hospitals are as top heavy with management, executives and a chief for every job division, as General Motors. Many hospitals also outsource housekeeping, dietary, laundry, pharmacy and some of the nursing staff, to reduce retiree entitlements. It's a complex snake pit behind the scenes and Kudos to President Obama for having the GUT's to tackle this mess. Obama 2012.... alr2903
 
Appnut's opinion

With the greatest respect I raise two issues with Appnut's expressed opinion. I see no evidence that the US healthcare system produces superior results on any parameters. Secondly does Appnut not fear that at the single stroke of an insurance compamy employees' pen or unemployment or illness he could be stripped of his currently satisfactory cover with NO RECOURSE OR AVENUE OF APPEAL?

Peter
 
Well...

.....we have been down this road before.

Nathan has a great point as does Panthera.

European countries have some of the best 'all encompassing' health care for their people in the world - bar none. No matter who you are or how ill you are, you can see a doctor without it costing a fortune....

It is the same here. I can see a doctor (GP) for $30 and have pretty much most standard prescriptions for about the same amount. To top it off, if I spend more than about $1200 per year on scripts, the Government (Yep...the GOVERNMENT) effectively pays for the majority of my script cost and I pay about $5.00....

When Australia went into a free trade agreement with the US, US pharma tried to force our governments hand and remove the PBS (pharmaceutical benefits scheme) which sets a limit that the government pays for medications....We, both as a government and a population, won that one...US pharma lost...

I pay my own private health insurance - most Australians do, should they wish it. It isn't, nor should it ever be, a benefit of employment IMHO. This, in conjunction with the medicare compulsory contribution based on my annual taxable income is about $2000 pa....including a rebate for my private health insurance. How much do your employers 'value' their contributions for your health at?

So, after a one off payment of $500 if I am hospitalised as a private patient (I could choose to go public and avoid it), I can choose my own doctor or have the one appointed, can go to a private hospital or go public...and the vast majority of the bills are covered...no mortgaging the house....

...and I only pay that payment once in a calender year...regardless of how often I may end up in hospital.

If I am unemployed, a pensioner or even living on the streets and/or have no private cover, I can still go to a doctor, get inexpensive medications etc....for virtually nothing....

I can choose to have 'branded' or generic medications....

The lists go on and on....and quite frankly, it is high time the US in general admitted that 'We've got it completely wrong'.

When you have a significant percentage of your population who work hard yet who can't afford basic medical care, that is WRONG.

When you have people who deserve the dignity of health and care, yet are denied it because they may be unemployed and have no private cover, yet have more assets than medicaid allows, that is WRONG....on so many levels it makes my blood boil.

..and I, for once, make no apologies if I offend someone with these comments. In the stoke of a pen, government could make the US truly great again by doing one key thing - looking after your own population.
 
I don't know a huge amount on this topic

But anyone here can walk into a hospital or doctor's for free and get the care they need. A pescription costs around £7 and is free providing you meet certain needs (low income, over 65, under 16, under 18 and in full time education, unemployed, and so on). This, in my opinion, is how it should be.

My Grandparents visited family in Boston in 1995. Whilst walking in a park they saw a little girl fall off a swing and smack her head on the floor, she didn't respond straight away when her mother ran to see her, but she did come round shortly, although was clearly concussed. My Grandparents went over and told the woman they would phone for an ambulance, she thanked them but told them she couldn't afford to pay for one and would that the girl would be "fine".

As far as I am concearned, in a wealthy country such as the U.S., a situation like that is appauling.
 
Bob

We don't tax the hell out of people for health insurance reason. The costs of the health care got out of control in the USA. That's why health care got so expensive. If the costs get back to an affordable level, health insurance for everybody is in reach without a considerable rise of taxes.

Louis
 
Kill the bill. There is nothing in it that will reform healthcare. It is an insurance scam with a ton of non-related spending to buy senators' votes.
 
Peter,

As weak as the gutted bill is, there is still quite a bit of good in there for those who do not enjoy your and my great good fortune.
One of the consequences of opposing everything and anything Democrats support is that truly poor people suffer.
 
A big part of the problem here is that health care in the USA has become a speculative get rich quick scheme for various less than ethical entrepreneurs and con artists.

The AMA has come out and endorsed the bill, as has the AARP. Doctors know that the bill will help them focus on treating people who are ill or injured, instead of getting constantly distracted by unscrupulous insurance company practices, which are rampant in today's under-regulated medical insurance market.

There may be an implosion in the health care and pharmaceutical field, but it won't be because of better regulation. It will be because of all the speculation going on, just as happened with the hedge fund/derivative/credit default swap markets. This bill comes none too soon to help prevent a health care bubble and inevitable burst.
 
If you are so concerned about poor people, start a charity. It isn't the job of the Federal Government to take what I make under the penalty of law and redistribute it. The bill is chock full of more earmarks than there are reforms, and there is no money for earmarks. We going to start paying now for benefits that don't start for 4 years. The AMA supports the bill while only 29% doctors belong. We were promised transparency and "a seat at the table", yet there have been nothing but sleazy backroom deals with waffling Dems and the Republicans and health provider organizations have been completely shut out. They are ramming through unreadable, gargantuan legislation which many legislators have not read, and for which we in the US are going to be suffering with for many years to come.

Yeah, tell all the people from Canada that rather come across the boarder in northern states that our health care is inferior. Tell all the people coming world over that the Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, John Hopkins, etc is inferior. Yeah, right.

Watch the Democrats fall hard in 2010.
 
And then we get back to reality. I harbor no illusions that the Senate version of the bill is anything like the reform many of us hoped for but it may turn out to be the best we can get from the situation we have to work in right now. Most of the "earmarks" that you rant about are amendments that were proposed by Republicans. These are people that have delayed, resisted and turned the their backs on the entire process of governing since the beginning of this congressional session and have been shut out of nothing. At every attempt to involve and engage by the Democratic party, the R's have played the victim and run away shrieking.

Start a charity? And you have the balls to call yourself a Christian? Who would your Jesus care for? Shame on you.
 
Have a good, long look at some of the people and their stories at a free clinic recently held in Kansas City. Ask them what fair access to health care looks like. One good thing that may come out of this bill is a small protection for people like these that decent standards of health care are a right - not a privilege reserved for the the wealthy. I'll bet not one of these people waiting all day in line asked for a tummy-tuck or a nose job.

Basic health and well being should be the priority of all civilized societies, shame on all of us for letting it get this bad.

http://www.kansascity.com/934/gallery/1621528.html
 
Separate church and state. It's unconstitutional for the government to force me to buy insurance, and it is unconstitutional for them to redistribute wealth. Leave it to the states as provided by the 10th amendment. And the Dems have repeatedly told R's that they are now in control, you lost, and we will take care of it. All R's amendments have been shot down by Dems, and all the sleazy wheeling and dealing have been done by the Dems. If the R's were at the table, then there wouldn't be consistently voting on party lines.

This is America, a representative republic, not a theocracy. As soon as I started forcing my Christian values on you, you'd be the first to yelp. You are in no position to make judgment calls on to whom I give money and where I volunteer my time. It's my money and time to do with as I please; not the job of the government to do it for me. Please, Helen...

Oh, I forgot, you are in NE. Enjoy you tax break at the cost for those of us in the 49 other states.
 
Oh, I couldn't agree with you more than if we were in the same party - or any party for that matter! I was appalled by most of this bill and made that perfectly clear to Ben's office before and after his slimy antics. Our governor made his objections to the Medicare subsidy quite clear today but we all know that this fake "pout-rage" will amount to little and the money will flow once this news cycle ends as well as earmarks and tax breaks for the other 49 states. It's all filthy sausage-making. I was a little shocked that Howard Dean backed off his "kill this" position today. Dems. As we said before, get them all out in 2010 - no incumbents need apply.

Helen(?) would never attempt to judge your volunteer time or contributions, that wasn't the point. I was trying to evoke compassion, can't we have a little bit Mr. Grinch?? I know it's in there, just let a little bit come out... It's Christmas after all ;-)
 
I fully agree with PeterH770.

I admit that our health care system needs serious reform as the prices are getting out of control. But this kind of radical reform that is currently being pushed through (to put it mildly) has panned out to be purely political and does not have the well-being of the average American citizen in mind. There are several Democrats (you know, the ones who aren't sheep and actually think for themselves) that admit this abomination can't effectively be accomplished without serious repercussions, like severe rationing of care.

Our corrupt government has persistently proven many times over that it can't effectively or efficiently run a business. Just look at Medicare, Social Security, and the Welfare system. Exactly how are we going to pay for it? Poor people don't pay taxes and the rich have many loopholes to choose from. That leaves the middle class to carry yet another major burden on their nearly broken backs. How about China? They' re just about fed up with our consistent borrowing without a plan for repayment. Socialistic medicine may work in smaller countries on a smaller population scale, but it sure as hell isn't gonna work in a large scale population sector, like the US. We have far too many lazy idiots here who refuse to pull their own weight and make it their mission in life to "work" the system.

"The only thing I can think of is that too many lower to middle-class white people resent the idea of Negroes and Mexican immigrants being treated decently, so they cut their own noses off to spite their faces."

This has got to be the most idiotic statement that you have yet to post on this forum. Your representation of non liberals as KKK members is absurd! Do I support the treatment of ILLEGAL immigrants? Hell no, they're illegal and are breaking the law by setting foot on our soil!! Ask anyone in the lower states who're in the health care field and they'll be the first to admit that the treatment of illegals (which, according to the bill, WILL be mandatory) is a big part of the reason why health care costs have soared. According to the news (and no, Panthera, it isn't just Fox news), hospitals in the south have been closing their doors in massive numbers due to the financial strain of treating illegals.

"I also doubt that employers will be dropping coverage."

Are you kidding?! My employer annually forks out 2.8 billion for health care coverage. Don't think for a second that they wouldn't immediately pass that expense and responsibility on to the government, or anyone else, for that matter. All it takes is one business to drop coverage and the rest will have no choice but to follow suite in order to remain competitive in the marketplace.

If the President, along with the Democrats and congress, think that this health care fiasco is the best thing since right-turn-on-red, why do THEY refuse to accept and get on the very plan they have created and vehemently push? That triggers the biggest of all red flags, if you ask me!
 
Actually, Medicare is run far more efficiently than private medical insurance companies. Typical administrative overhead in a private medical insurance company is 30% or more. Administrative overhead in Medicare is less than 15%.

An example of a sheep who can't think for himself: Joe Lieberman. He proposed expanding Medicare in lieu of the public option several months ago. This past two weeks he reversed himself and said he wouldn't agree to cloture unless the Medicare expansion was dropped from the bill. I wonder who pulled his puppet strings on that one?
 
Wow. Just, Wow.

The amount of mis-information floating around is beyond belief.

I think it's time to write another stern letter to the NY-Times...;-)))

qsd-dan, you don't exactly make your point when you take my first statement that a lot of those people who stand the most to benefit from health care reform are the ones who are objecting on the basis that it will benefit those of us with darker skin (watch any reporting on the Tea-baggers? At all?) then twist it to mean I believe all but liberals are racists (I don't, PeterH, for example, is anything but a liberal and HE is absolutely not a racist) and then go off on a rant about 'ILLEGAL' immigrants, together with lazy people being the root of all America's woes...

I don't doubt that there may be lazy Americans waiting to game the system, but at the age of 51 I have had the time and the opportunity to travel quite widely across this country and, you know what? With very few exceptions, I have never met anything but hard working, decent people in this country. Your opinion of the US government and the citizens of this land is quite a bit more negative than mine.

Fascinating.

Medicare, together with the two other major government run medical programs in the US are counted throughout the world as being among the few medical services available in the US which actually do work well. Labeling something 'socialistic' which isn't, in order to attack it is foolish.

The day I heard a Tea-bagger screaming "get your gubermint paws off my Medicare!", I thought things had gotten as bad as they could. Boy, was I wrong.
 
Hospitals in the South in trouble due to treating illegals

Is NOT THE FULL TRUTH! The TRUTH is most ALL hospitals are in trouble but mostly due to the fact that medicare reimbursements have been cut so much that most of the time the amount paid will not even cover 1/2 the true charges Of any medical procedure. Also another BIG problem is the huge sums the admin. and CEO draws when the only three words they ever learned in grade school were cut, cut , cut, There are many that make in excess of 2 million a year while the hospital cant even afford to buy washcloths, so old towels are torn into 4 pcs. and they shut the kitchens down and serve Banquet frozen dinners to the patients that do not require special diets. And case loads on RN and most other staff are increased by 2x so the hospital payroll can be cut to better pay their inflated wadges.
 
Panthera

You are a racist sir to say that white people do not want colored people to get treatment. We have illegal Mexicans working here in Charleston that get treatment all the time. Noone denies them care even though they know they are wrong to be here. Maybe if you dislike white people you should move to a non white country and just kiss our ass!!
 

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