Health Care Reform takes the first procedural hurdle in the Senate

[sudsmaster]

A big part of the problem here is that health care in the USA has become a speculative get rich quick scheme for various less than ethical entrepreneurs and con artists.

The AMA has come out and endorsed the bill, as has the AARP. Doctors know that the bill will help them focus on treating people who are ill or injured, instead of getting constantly distracted by unscrupulous insurance company practices, which are rampant in today's under-regulated medical insurance market.

There may be an implosion in the health care and pharmaceutical field, but it won't be because of better regulation. It will be because of all the speculation going on, just as happened with the hedge fund/derivative/credit default swap markets. This bill comes none too soon to help prevent a health care bubble and inevitable burst.

 

[peterh770]

If you are so concerned about poor people, start a charity. It isn't the job of the Federal Government to take what I make under the penalty of law and redistribute it. The bill is chock full of more earmarks than there are reforms, and there is no money for earmarks. We going to start paying now for benefits that don't start for 4 years. The AMA supports the bill while only 29% doctors belong. We were promised transparency and "a seat at the table", yet there have been nothing but sleazy backroom deals with waffling Dems and the Republicans and health provider organizations have been completely shut out. They are ramming through unreadable, gargantuan legislation which many legislators have not read, and for which we in the US are going to be suffering with for many years to come.

Yeah, tell all the people from Canada that rather come across the boarder in northern states that our health care is inferior. Tell all the people coming world over that the Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, John Hopkins, etc is inferior. Yeah, right.

Watch the Democrats fall hard in 2010.

 

[gansky1]

And then we get back to reality. I harbor no illusions that the Senate version of the bill is anything like the reform many of us hoped for but it may turn out to be the best we can get from the situation we have to work in right now. Most of the "earmarks" that you rant about are amendments that were proposed by Republicans. These are people that have delayed, resisted and turned the their backs on the entire process of governing since the beginning of this congressional session and have been shut out of nothing. At every attempt to involve and engage by the Democratic party, the R's have played the victim and run away shrieking.

Start a charity? And you have the balls to call yourself a Christian? Who would your Jesus care for? Shame on you.

 

[gansky1]

Have a good, long look at some of the people and their stories at a free clinic recently held in Kansas City. Ask them what fair access to health care looks like. One good thing that may come out of this bill is a small protection for people like these that decent standards of health care are a right - not a privilege reserved for the the wealthy. I'll bet not one of these people waiting all day in line asked for a tummy-tuck or a nose job.

Basic health and well being should be the priority of all civilized societies, shame on all of us for letting it get this bad.

http://www.kansascity.com/934/gallery/1621528.html

 

[peterh770]

Separate church and state. It's unconstitutional for the government to force me to buy insurance, and it is unconstitutional for them to redistribute wealth. Leave it to the states as provided by the 10th amendment. And the Dems have repeatedly told R's that they are now in control, you lost, and we will take care of it. All R's amendments have been shot down by Dems, and all the sleazy wheeling and dealing have been done by the Dems. If the R's were at the table, then there wouldn't be consistently voting on party lines.

This is America, a representative republic, not a theocracy. As soon as I started forcing my Christian values on you, you'd be the first to yelp. You are in no position to make judgment calls on to whom I give money and where I volunteer my time. It's my money and time to do with as I please; not the job of the government to do it for me. Please, Helen...

Oh, I forgot, you are in NE. Enjoy you tax break at the cost for those of us in the 49 other states.

 

[gansky1]

Oh, I couldn't agree with you more than if we were in the same party - or any party for that matter! I was appalled by most of this bill and made that perfectly clear to Ben's office before and after his slimy antics. Our governor made his objections to the Medicare subsidy quite clear today but we all know that this fake "pout-rage" will amount to little and the money will flow once this news cycle ends as well as earmarks and tax breaks for the other 49 states. It's all filthy sausage-making. I was a little shocked that Howard Dean backed off his "kill this" position today. Dems. As we said before, get them all out in 2010 - no incumbents need apply.

Helen(?) would never attempt to judge your volunteer time or contributions, that wasn't the point. I was trying to evoke compassion, can't we have a little bit Mr. Grinch?? I know it's in there, just let a little bit come out... It's Christmas after all ;-)

 

[qsd-dan]

I fully agree with PeterH770.

I admit that our health care system needs serious reform as the prices are getting out of control. But this kind of radical reform that is currently being pushed through (to put it mildly) has panned out to be purely political and does not have the well-being of the average American citizen in mind. There are several Democrats (you know, the ones who aren't sheep and actually think for themselves) that admit this abomination can't effectively be accomplished without serious repercussions, like severe rationing of care.

Our corrupt government has persistently proven many times over that it can't effectively or efficiently run a business. Just look at Medicare, Social Security, and the Welfare system. Exactly how are we going to pay for it? Poor people don't pay taxes and the rich have many loopholes to choose from. That leaves the middle class to carry yet another major burden on their nearly broken backs. How about China? They' re just about fed up with our consistent borrowing without a plan for repayment. Socialistic medicine may work in smaller countries on a smaller population scale, but it sure as hell isn't gonna work in a large scale population sector, like the US. We have far too many lazy idiots here who refuse to pull their own weight and make it their mission in life to "work" the system.

"The only thing I can think of is that too many lower to middle-class white people resent the idea of Negroes and Mexican immigrants being treated decently, so they cut their own noses off to spite their faces."

This has got to be the most idiotic statement that you have yet to post on this forum. Your representation of non liberals as KKK members is absurd! Do I support the treatment of ILLEGAL immigrants? Hell no, they're illegal and are breaking the law by setting foot on our soil!! Ask anyone in the lower states who're in the health care field and they'll be the first to admit that the treatment of illegals (which, according to the bill, WILL be mandatory) is a big part of the reason why health care costs have soared. According to the news (and no, Panthera, it isn't just Fox news), hospitals in the south have been closing their doors in massive numbers due to the financial strain of treating illegals.

"I also doubt that employers will be dropping coverage."

Are you kidding?! My employer annually forks out 2.8 billion for health care coverage. Don't think for a second that they wouldn't immediately pass that expense and responsibility on to the government, or anyone else, for that matter. All it takes is one business to drop coverage and the rest will have no choice but to follow suite in order to remain competitive in the marketplace.

If the President, along with the Democrats and congress, think that this health care fiasco is the best thing since right-turn-on-red, why do THEY refuse to accept and get on the very plan they have created and vehemently push? That triggers the biggest of all red flags, if you ask me!

 

[sudsmaster]

Actually, Medicare is run far more efficiently than private medical insurance companies. Typical administrative overhead in a private medical insurance company is 30% or more. Administrative overhead in Medicare is less than 15%.

An example of a sheep who can't think for himself: Joe Lieberman. He proposed expanding Medicare in lieu of the public option several months ago. This past two weeks he reversed himself and said he wouldn't agree to cloture unless the Medicare expansion was dropped from the bill. I wonder who pulled his puppet strings on that one?

 

[panthera]

Wow. Just, Wow.

The amount of mis-information floating around is beyond belief.

I think it's time to write another stern letter to the NY-Times...;-)))

qsd-dan, you don't exactly make your point when you take my first statement that a lot of those people who stand the most to benefit from health care reform are the ones who are objecting on the basis that it will benefit those of us with darker skin (watch any reporting on the Tea-baggers? At all?) then twist it to mean I believe all but liberals are racists (I don't, PeterH, for example, is anything but a liberal and HE is absolutely not a racist) and then go off on a rant about 'ILLEGAL' immigrants, together with lazy people being the root of all America's woes...

I don't doubt that there may be lazy Americans waiting to game the system, but at the age of 51 I have had the time and the opportunity to travel quite widely across this country and, you know what? With very few exceptions, I have never met anything but hard working, decent people in this country. Your opinion of the US government and the citizens of this land is quite a bit more negative than mine.

Fascinating.

Medicare, together with the two other major government run medical programs in the US are counted throughout the world as being among the few medical services available in the US which actually do work well. Labeling something 'socialistic' which isn't, in order to attack it is foolish.

The day I heard a Tea-bagger screaming "get your gubermint paws off my Medicare!", I thought things had gotten as bad as they could. Boy, was I wrong.

 

[sudsman]

Hospitals in the South in trouble due to treating illegals

Is NOT THE FULL TRUTH! The TRUTH is most ALL hospitals are in trouble but mostly due to the fact that medicare reimbursements have been cut so much that most of the time the amount paid will not even cover 1/2 the true charges Of any medical procedure. Also another BIG problem is the huge sums the admin. and CEO draws when the only three words they ever learned in grade school were cut, cut , cut, There are many that make in excess of 2 million a year while the hospital cant even afford to buy washcloths, so old towels are torn into 4 pcs. and they shut the kitchens down and serve Banquet frozen dinners to the patients that do not require special diets. And case loads on RN and most other staff are increased by 2x so the hospital payroll can be cut to better pay their inflated wadges.

 

[oldwasherguy]

Panthera

You are a racist sir to say that white people do not want colored people to get treatment. We have illegal Mexicans working here in Charleston that get treatment all the time. Noone denies them care even though they know they are wrong to be here. Maybe if you dislike white people you should move to a non white country and just kiss our ass!!

 

[panthera]

Don,

First, I spoke inclusively - unfortunately, I don't even have enough pigment to do more than go from dead white to slightly pink, even after six weeks in Greece in August. But then, you sort of made my point, now didn't you...

Second, I did not say anyone here was a racist, I said that the opposition to health care reform on the part of many is grounded in racism. Take a look at the Tea-baggers rallies and listen to what many of the conservatives are saying and you can't get around it.

This knee-jerk "Panthera is this, that and the other" is amusing, wait - don't tell me - you blue-rinsed ladies aren't all firing off highly indignant emails to each other with your panties all wet and dripping over my latest infringement against your queenly Weltanschuung?

Nah, couldn't be.

If you were to actually take a moment to read the several well-reasoned comments here from people who are far to my right politically, you would see that quite a few people disagree with you on health care reform who, otherwise, are politically and religiously rather conservative.

Goodness, now I'm a racist. Hmm, does that go before 'fascist/socialist/Marxist/Leninist/commie/pinko/fag/Nazi or after? Does it deserve elevation to a proper noun or needs must it remain an adjectival apositive? Decisions, decisions.

 

[peterh770]

Please do not confuse my Grinch politics with my little Cindy Lou Who heart...

 

[sudsmaster]

"I also doubt that employers will be dropping coverage."

Are you kidding?! My employer annually forks out 2.8 billion for health care coverage. Don't think for a second that they wouldn't immediately pass that expense and responsibility on to the government, or anyone else, for that matter. All it takes is one business to drop coverage and the rest will have no choice but to follow suite in order to remain competitive in the marketplace.

OK, let's be logical here.

What law requires employers to carry group health insurance for their employees today?

NONE! So the ONLY incentive employers have to carry such group insurance is that it is better for their employees - so the employer can attract and retain good talent with a minimum of down time due to illness.

Now, the new bill will FINE employers who do not provide health insurance for their employees. This means the employers will have MORE incentive to provide such coverage under this bill, than they do now.

Got it?

 

[panthera]

Rich,

You've explained it beautifully, but I fear you are wasting your breath (or electrons), so to speak.

Some folks simply refuse to believe anything good about Obama and the Democrats.

Under any circumstances.

I always thought being an informed citizen was one of the hallmarks of conservatives, another false conception of mine bites the dust.

 

[runematic]

Yes, the new senate bill will fine employers who do not offer a plan. A WHOPPING $750/employee! Sounds like that's a pretty good tradeoff to ship the employees to the government dole.

 

[sudsman]

It will be inflationary

As employeers will have to raise prices on everything to cover the cost. Of forced insurance.

 

[DADoES]

 
I've never had employer-provided insurance at any of my jobs. The small business where I've worked for 25 years cannot possibly afford it. Four of the 14 to 20 employees (varies by time-of-year) are salaried, the rest are hourly and considered part-time (some may work little as 8 to 12 hrs in a week). Assuming only "full-time"/salaried are subject to coverage, paying a $750 yearly penalty on each would cost less.

 

[sudsman]

a number in this area are saying

that they will downsize and let as many go as possible. Some say they will automate more and let people go. Which is just what I will do.

 

[oldwasherguy]

So, what does that tell us about Obama and his plan? There will be even more people out of work.People are so scared of being resposible for their own healthcare, but trust me, you are better off with the government staying out of it. Don