health care reform?
- Thread starter alr2903
- Start date
The major roadblock to health care reform is the private insurers lobby, who're desperately trying to stop a government/public coverage option. When public coverage is implemented, many or most of these greedy HMO/PPO bastards will go out of business. As they should.
The focus not only on health care, but perscription pricing!
Some drugs can cost $1500.00 a month or more and something needs to be done about it!
Some drugs can cost $1500.00 a month or more and something needs to be done about it!
andrewinorlando
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2004
- Messages
- 1,392
They'll never go out of business, they will simply have to start to compete, and make due with less profit, which they make substantially lots of today.
maytagbear
Well-known member
If it weren't for my coverage....
my prescriptions and diabetes supplies would be just a little over 2,000 a month.
Month, not year.
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a generic insulin.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
my prescriptions and diabetes supplies would be just a little over 2,000 a month.
Month, not year.
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a generic insulin.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
I angry about the whole mess. Why are we not looking all over the globe to see what works and why. Then look at how to improve and implement that coverage.
I feel that everyone should be provided coverage regardless of income at no cost. Pay for it with a increase in various taxes. As it is now everyone pays for the uninsured since those costs are often absorbed by hospitals and practitioners. focus on preventive care and see the huge cost savings.
I feel that everyone should be provided coverage regardless of income at no cost. Pay for it with a increase in various taxes. As it is now everyone pays for the uninsured since those costs are often absorbed by hospitals and practitioners. focus on preventive care and see the huge cost savings.
yogitunes
Well-known member
these drug companies should not be allowed to hold back on needed medicines for patients.....
theres new drugs out there for Crohn's, the doctor has talked with them for the benefits to put me on them, and they deny payment for the medicine....and yet they talk about QUALITY in living...what a joke!...what am I paying for insurance all these years, and when I get sick they deny me the drugs to get better, why didn't they state this when they started taking my premiums years ago?
theres new drugs out there for Crohn's, the doctor has talked with them for the benefits to put me on them, and they deny payment for the medicine....and yet they talk about QUALITY in living...what a joke!...what am I paying for insurance all these years, and when I get sick they deny me the drugs to get better, why didn't they state this when they started taking my premiums years ago?
Insurance is the biggest scam going, e.g. you can pay auto insurance premiums for 30+ years without a single claim, then get in a wreck and Allstate just might, if they're in a good mood, offer you "accident forgiveness".
If I had a policy with them, I'd return every other premium notice with no check, just a letter stating that I'm giving them "premium forgiveness".
If I had a policy with them, I'd return every other premium notice with no check, just a letter stating that I'm giving them "premium forgiveness".
launderess
Well-known member
It Really Isn't Fair to Compare European Countries
Health care systems to that of the United States.
In most cases the former built their state systems when their wasn't a long established priviate system, and or out of socialist "ideals" post WWII (or in some cases WWI)
England/UK there wasn't anyone else to run hospitals and or "health care" system, so the government stepped in, created what there is now and that was that.
For all cases there isn't one European country that can match the population of the United States. Furthermore most all European governments run on the Parliamentary system. It is much easier for a platform to advance when the head of government needs to keep his party in power, and or broker deals with other parties to keep themselves on top.
Contrast that with the United States where power is divided between three branches, and the president has no direct power over Congress and the Senate, and vice versa. Oh the person sitting in the Oval Office does have lots of carrots and sticks to put about, and some power in his own right, but when push comes to shove those sitting elsewhere are more likely to look after their own political survival than go along with scheme that proves unpopular with their district.
Another problem for the United States is many people have health insurance they are quite happy with. No, these are not all "fat cats" and "Wall Street" types, but union members, government workers and such. If the government creates a plan that is overly generous,and costs less than a priviate plan, then people will naturally move over to the government health care system. If enough of that happens costs for those in priviate schemes will rise.
Other fly in the ointment is that for a government health care plan to truly work, and not break the bank, the federal goverment will have to do something it has not done very much of so far; contain costs by using it's buying power. In a country where the military spends several hundred dollars for ONE toilet seat that could be purchased at any supply house for ten dollars, you can see where this will lead.
The other way to keep costs down is to limit access to care and or treatments. If a 75yo man requires expensive treatment for a chronic condition that may only extend his life by a few years, is the cost worth it? Someone somewhere is going to have to write rules and make decisions. It just simply not possible to write a blank check on this issue.
One persons cost cutting, is another cutting another persons income. Now some may say that doctors are over paid and could use a "haircut", but that is not really true. Many areas of the United States have few doctors, especially general practioners. The federal government could offer to pay doctors willing to practice in "underserved" areas more, but that means money has to come from someplace else.
This is the reason so many people are leary of Obama's government health plans. Quite simply there aren't many easy choices to make. To remotely cover even half the current uninsured persons in the United States is going to cost quite allot of money, money the federal government does not have, and both the White House and Congress are loathe to raise taxes. You cannot pay for a scheme of this size with the usual gimmicks and budget slight of hands that normally goes on in Washington, DC. T
Health care systems to that of the United States.
In most cases the former built their state systems when their wasn't a long established priviate system, and or out of socialist "ideals" post WWII (or in some cases WWI)
England/UK there wasn't anyone else to run hospitals and or "health care" system, so the government stepped in, created what there is now and that was that.
For all cases there isn't one European country that can match the population of the United States. Furthermore most all European governments run on the Parliamentary system. It is much easier for a platform to advance when the head of government needs to keep his party in power, and or broker deals with other parties to keep themselves on top.
Contrast that with the United States where power is divided between three branches, and the president has no direct power over Congress and the Senate, and vice versa. Oh the person sitting in the Oval Office does have lots of carrots and sticks to put about, and some power in his own right, but when push comes to shove those sitting elsewhere are more likely to look after their own political survival than go along with scheme that proves unpopular with their district.
Another problem for the United States is many people have health insurance they are quite happy with. No, these are not all "fat cats" and "Wall Street" types, but union members, government workers and such. If the government creates a plan that is overly generous,and costs less than a priviate plan, then people will naturally move over to the government health care system. If enough of that happens costs for those in priviate schemes will rise.
Other fly in the ointment is that for a government health care plan to truly work, and not break the bank, the federal goverment will have to do something it has not done very much of so far; contain costs by using it's buying power. In a country where the military spends several hundred dollars for ONE toilet seat that could be purchased at any supply house for ten dollars, you can see where this will lead.
The other way to keep costs down is to limit access to care and or treatments. If a 75yo man requires expensive treatment for a chronic condition that may only extend his life by a few years, is the cost worth it? Someone somewhere is going to have to write rules and make decisions. It just simply not possible to write a blank check on this issue.
One persons cost cutting, is another cutting another persons income. Now some may say that doctors are over paid and could use a "haircut", but that is not really true. Many areas of the United States have few doctors, especially general practioners. The federal government could offer to pay doctors willing to practice in "underserved" areas more, but that means money has to come from someplace else.
This is the reason so many people are leary of Obama's government health plans. Quite simply there aren't many easy choices to make. To remotely cover even half the current uninsured persons in the United States is going to cost quite allot of money, money the federal government does not have, and both the White House and Congress are loathe to raise taxes. You cannot pay for a scheme of this size with the usual gimmicks and budget slight of hands that normally goes on in Washington, DC. T
Launderess, the simple fact is, defense spending by the United States since the end of WWII represents the greatest squandering of wealth in human history. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $60 trillion, flushed directly down the toilet to feed an insatiable monster that President Eisenhower specifically warned us about in 1961.
If you actually believe we can't afford universal health care, you've bought into the propaganda.
Of course we can afford it, it's just a matter of national priority, and telling entrenched lobbyists (for the Pentagon, private health insurers, Big Pharma etc) to go fly a kite. Obama is the best chance we've ever had to get it done.
If you actually believe we can't afford universal health care, you've bought into the propaganda.
Of course we can afford it, it's just a matter of national priority, and telling entrenched lobbyists (for the Pentagon, private health insurers, Big Pharma etc) to go fly a kite. Obama is the best chance we've ever had to get it done.
A man who was down-sized from my employer 3 years ago recently died in an emergency room, it turned out he had stopped taking his high blood pressure medication because his new job did not have health care and he was on a waiting list to get assistance from the state. It seems that the bill for his stay before he checked out for ever was $88,000.00 and as he was living with his brother (1/2 of his net pay went to child support payments) it seems unlikely that there will be an estate to pay the bill so the cost is added to the hospitals cost of doing business and must be recovered in higher prices to those who do have means to pay.
It must be taken into consideration that we already have the most barbaric form of health care rationing possible.
General Motors has indicated that it costs over $1000.00 more to build a car in the United States then it does in Canada and the reason is health care cost not hourly wages or other benefits.
The cost of doing nothing is far to high
It must be taken into consideration that we already have the most barbaric form of health care rationing possible.
General Motors has indicated that it costs over $1000.00 more to build a car in the United States then it does in Canada and the reason is health care cost not hourly wages or other benefits.
The cost of doing nothing is far to high
Launderess is right-there is a "dark side" to gov't run healthcare plans.Yes there may be rationing-this could be the worst feature-who decides who will live or die??This is bad.And yes--UP GO your taxes-is this good-NO!And in another thread we were talking about jobs in China---With the cost of govt healthcare-another way to drive jobs out of the US.Your healthcare will become MORE expensive than what it is.Instaed of gov't running the system-we just need some modest regulation.This would be more palatable.The private lower cost system will still operate-but will have rules to go by.
Defense spending IS NOT squandering money-it is for YOUR protection and that of our country.Yes-there can be ways to cut its costs(Do we need to pay several hundred for a potty seat-or a hammer)when these items can be bought at any hardware store for far less-and be just as usable.And remember defense spending provides JOBS for folks in the USA.Healthcare is a diffrent agenda.I am skeptical about Obamas healthcare plans just the same as his energy plan-folks need to know the darkside of both-may be more COSTLY than you think!!And YOU bear the burden!!Politicians are so good at "sugarcoating" their plans to make them sound good to you-but don't tell you the other side of their story.Yes-universal healthcare for all is a nice thing-but what is the cost?no answer from the politicians here.for the healthcare and energy -something just sounds too good to be true.BEWARE!!
Defense spending IS NOT squandering money-it is for YOUR protection and that of our country.Yes-there can be ways to cut its costs(Do we need to pay several hundred for a potty seat-or a hammer)when these items can be bought at any hardware store for far less-and be just as usable.And remember defense spending provides JOBS for folks in the USA.Healthcare is a diffrent agenda.I am skeptical about Obamas healthcare plans just the same as his energy plan-folks need to know the darkside of both-may be more COSTLY than you think!!And YOU bear the burden!!Politicians are so good at "sugarcoating" their plans to make them sound good to you-but don't tell you the other side of their story.Yes-universal healthcare for all is a nice thing-but what is the cost?no answer from the politicians here.for the healthcare and energy -something just sounds too good to be true.BEWARE!!
ronhic
Well-known member
I can't tell you how gratefull I am that I live here.
We have medicare, which for all its' faults gives a minimum standard of health care to all. Everyone pays for it - no exceptions and if you are on a higher income, you pay a little more than if you are on a lower income.
Should you take out private hospital cover for 'extras' such as glasses, osteopathy, dental etc before you turn 30, you pay the same rate when you are 70 as someone who will be 30 at that point in time. i.e Your premiums don't rise with your age if you lock in by 30yrs.
Add to that the PBS (Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme...basically, on a HUGE range of prescription medicines the Australian Government covers the difference in price between the 'cost' and the dispensed price. It should be noted that the PBS and the Howard Governments refusal to alter it nearly cost us a free-trade agreement with the US...that should give you an idea how much it is worth) and to some degree, we have it better than the UK as the combined cost of Medicare (National Health Service in UK) and the PBS is cheaper for us than the NHS is in the UK.
There is no way on this earth I would move to the US with a health system that appears to be motivated by greed and very little by care.
We have medicare, which for all its' faults gives a minimum standard of health care to all. Everyone pays for it - no exceptions and if you are on a higher income, you pay a little more than if you are on a lower income.
Should you take out private hospital cover for 'extras' such as glasses, osteopathy, dental etc before you turn 30, you pay the same rate when you are 70 as someone who will be 30 at that point in time. i.e Your premiums don't rise with your age if you lock in by 30yrs.
Add to that the PBS (Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme...basically, on a HUGE range of prescription medicines the Australian Government covers the difference in price between the 'cost' and the dispensed price. It should be noted that the PBS and the Howard Governments refusal to alter it nearly cost us a free-trade agreement with the US...that should give you an idea how much it is worth) and to some degree, we have it better than the UK as the combined cost of Medicare (National Health Service in UK) and the PBS is cheaper for us than the NHS is in the UK.
There is no way on this earth I would move to the US with a health system that appears to be motivated by greed and very little by care.
Only private insurances in the Netherlands. Some years ago a sort of national health insurance was stopped and the market is now for the private insurance companies. But... it's a regulated market. And a basic insurance is mandatory for everybody and it's affordable. You can get extra insurances for costs not covered by the standard insurance. I think it's a good working system.
To keep the costs of the health care in hand it's also important to set a maximum price on every medical treatment. It's the only way to get the focus back on the patient instead of on the money that can be earned.
To keep the costs of the health care in hand it's also important to set a maximum price on every medical treatment. It's the only way to get the focus back on the patient instead of on the money that can be earned.
launderess
Well-known member
Am the first to agree the United States requires some form of univeral health insurance. However having worked in healthcare for more years than one cares to remember, it is something one knows about.
Adding vastly more persons into the healthcare market via whatever insurance or anything else the government dreams up is NOT going to address the ever rising costs of heathcare in the United States. Worse we will have a totally new market for various doctors, drug companies, and so forth to get their hands on.
Medicare and Medicaid are run by the federal government and though the do a decent job, billons are wasted each year in fraud and waste. One popular past time in such places as Florida is for seniors to go various doctor visits for really no reason other than they want to get out of the house and have someone to talk to. Those visits are billed to Medicare.
It simply is NOT going be possible to vastly increase the number of insured persons on the government's tab without either staggeringly vast tax increases or some sort of scheme to keep costs under control. The first strikes fear in politicans, the later in citizens of the United States.
Keeping costs under control is going to mean someone is going to be told "no". It could be for a durg they saw advertised on televison and insist it is the ONLY thing for them, in spite of the fact a generic or other durg will do the same or better and cost less. Or, being told that their 95 y/o father cannot have a pacemaker inserted because the cost benefit ratio for someone at his stage of life is not on the cards.
Also consider that unless there is a mandatory opt in, young and otherwise healthy persons will NOT sign up if the cost is too great. Heck, some may not sign up unless it is free. That will leave a system signing up of persons who are ill, and or suffer from chronic diseases, and or anyone else whom is ill but cannot obtain insurance otherwise. That is no way to run any insurance scheme. It means outlays will vastly out run intake revenue. When or if that happens, where would this government scheme find the funds to make up the short fall.
Senator Kennedy is inserting a long term care provison into this bill. Has anyone priced long term care these days? It is no accident that many persons and or their familes spend down their assets so they can qualify for Medicare or Medicaid to pay for long term care.
Again, am all for universal health coverage, am just concerned about value for money, and where the funds are going to come from.
L.
Adding vastly more persons into the healthcare market via whatever insurance or anything else the government dreams up is NOT going to address the ever rising costs of heathcare in the United States. Worse we will have a totally new market for various doctors, drug companies, and so forth to get their hands on.
Medicare and Medicaid are run by the federal government and though the do a decent job, billons are wasted each year in fraud and waste. One popular past time in such places as Florida is for seniors to go various doctor visits for really no reason other than they want to get out of the house and have someone to talk to. Those visits are billed to Medicare.
It simply is NOT going be possible to vastly increase the number of insured persons on the government's tab without either staggeringly vast tax increases or some sort of scheme to keep costs under control. The first strikes fear in politicans, the later in citizens of the United States.
Keeping costs under control is going to mean someone is going to be told "no". It could be for a durg they saw advertised on televison and insist it is the ONLY thing for them, in spite of the fact a generic or other durg will do the same or better and cost less. Or, being told that their 95 y/o father cannot have a pacemaker inserted because the cost benefit ratio for someone at his stage of life is not on the cards.
Also consider that unless there is a mandatory opt in, young and otherwise healthy persons will NOT sign up if the cost is too great. Heck, some may not sign up unless it is free. That will leave a system signing up of persons who are ill, and or suffer from chronic diseases, and or anyone else whom is ill but cannot obtain insurance otherwise. That is no way to run any insurance scheme. It means outlays will vastly out run intake revenue. When or if that happens, where would this government scheme find the funds to make up the short fall.
Senator Kennedy is inserting a long term care provison into this bill. Has anyone priced long term care these days? It is no accident that many persons and or their familes spend down their assets so they can qualify for Medicare or Medicaid to pay for long term care.
Again, am all for universal health coverage, am just concerned about value for money, and where the funds are going to come from.
L.
animasinsulinpu
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2009
- Messages
- 275
Question for Lawrence
Did you ever get the insulin pump?.....Bill in Az.....
Did you ever get the insulin pump?.....Bill in Az.....
~sudsshane
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,250
Massachusetts Healthcare
I would like to hear some non partisan feedback from the Massachusetts contingent here regarding the Healthcare plan implemented by Former Gov. Mitt Romney for the State of Massachusetts.
I don't know much about it, but a friend of mine who live in Springfield, Mass, says it is a good plan.
Any thoughts?
I would like to hear some non partisan feedback from the Massachusetts contingent here regarding the Healthcare plan implemented by Former Gov. Mitt Romney for the State of Massachusetts.
I don't know much about it, but a friend of mine who live in Springfield, Mass, says it is a good plan.
Any thoughts?
I'll take our Canadian system warts and all anyday over the schmozzle in the USA. We all shake our head in disbelief up here about how crappy it is in the US and how the anti-universals down there exagerrate and use scare tactics when ever the Canadian healthcare system is brought up.
Here's another close to home example just 3 weeks ago..
Our neighbor John across the road, retired, was feeling sick Saturday night and at about 3am Sunday morning asked his wife to take him to the hospital. They found he had had a heart attack and was having another, out with the paddles etc and into the operating room for an angioplasty, He was back pulling weeds from his driveway Tuesday afternoon. No charge, no paperwork other than signing a check-in and release document. No insurer to deal with just show your the hospital your health card and that's it.
Again not everything is free either.. I just had my annual physical at the doctors office and he sent me to a lab for bloodwork and a prostrate screening.. The prostrate cancer screening test cost me $30 out of pocket only.. the other blood tests were free.
Here's another close to home example just 3 weeks ago..
Our neighbor John across the road, retired, was feeling sick Saturday night and at about 3am Sunday morning asked his wife to take him to the hospital. They found he had had a heart attack and was having another, out with the paddles etc and into the operating room for an angioplasty, He was back pulling weeds from his driveway Tuesday afternoon. No charge, no paperwork other than signing a check-in and release document. No insurer to deal with just show your the hospital your health card and that's it.
Again not everything is free either.. I just had my annual physical at the doctors office and he sent me to a lab for bloodwork and a prostrate screening.. The prostrate cancer screening test cost me $30 out of pocket only.. the other blood tests were free.
peterh770
Well-known member
It's all an insurance scam. Talk to and about doctors? Nope, let's talk insurance and how they will get rich on this scam on everyone's misery. The gov't has done a bang up job messing up the economy, social security, they can barely deliver a letter, and we want them to control the medical industry? In the words of the great Judy Tenuda, "Dream on, clingons".
The Canadian government doesn't control health-care each of the individual provinces have their own province-wide universal health care systems. What the federal Canadian govt does is lay down the "rules" the provinces have to follow if they want any federal subsidies for health care. Technically any province could opt out of the federal plan if they wanted and go it alone. Much the same as the US govt does forcing states to impose 21 y.o. age limits on drinking etc if they want to receive federal monies for highway improvements etc.
There isn't any federal department that is involved in the day to day administration of doctors and hospitals at all. Each province runs its own doctors and hospitals and can pretty much run them as they want so long as there is no profit involved. For profit hospitals are illegal in Canada. Every province is free to set it's own formulary as to what is covered and what is not and they aren't the same in every province so something that is covered here in Ontario may not be covered elsewhere etc. Those things are generally of a minor nature though. Nowhere in Canada would a person pay out of pocket for a necessary surgery or life threatening event. They may pay for the ambulance ride to the hospital though and you'll pay extra for a private room over a ward room or a two person room.
For example a private room in our local hospital costs about $300 day if you don't have private insurance thru your employer etc, a semi-private 2 person room is about $250 a day. If you don't have the money, insurance or are just cheap then you get a "ward" room with up to 4 people in it.
The ambulance to the hospital here is about $60 if you don't have private insurance to cover it.
Those prices could be totally different in another province.
As well any provincial government and our own federal govt that gets elected usually every 4 years are extremely leery about tinkering with our health care systems. It's probably the hottest issue in the country, hotter than the US gun control and abortion fights. A politician or a political party could go down in flames here quickly, faster than can happen in the US usually if he tried to pull a fast one or make hugely unpopular changes.
There isn't any federal department that is involved in the day to day administration of doctors and hospitals at all. Each province runs its own doctors and hospitals and can pretty much run them as they want so long as there is no profit involved. For profit hospitals are illegal in Canada. Every province is free to set it's own formulary as to what is covered and what is not and they aren't the same in every province so something that is covered here in Ontario may not be covered elsewhere etc. Those things are generally of a minor nature though. Nowhere in Canada would a person pay out of pocket for a necessary surgery or life threatening event. They may pay for the ambulance ride to the hospital though and you'll pay extra for a private room over a ward room or a two person room.
For example a private room in our local hospital costs about $300 day if you don't have private insurance thru your employer etc, a semi-private 2 person room is about $250 a day. If you don't have the money, insurance or are just cheap then you get a "ward" room with up to 4 people in it.
The ambulance to the hospital here is about $60 if you don't have private insurance to cover it.
Those prices could be totally different in another province.
As well any provincial government and our own federal govt that gets elected usually every 4 years are extremely leery about tinkering with our health care systems. It's probably the hottest issue in the country, hotter than the US gun control and abortion fights. A politician or a political party could go down in flames here quickly, faster than can happen in the US usually if he tried to pull a fast one or make hugely unpopular changes.
ronhic
Well-known member
mmmmm.....sounds like the Commonwealth and European countries have health high on the agenda and whilst there are many differences, basically it means if we get sick, we can afford to go to hospital or a doctor and know that we will be looked after (generally speaking) and obtain medicines without causing bankruptcy.....with or without private health cover.
...and lets not forget the reciprocal arrangements that Australians have with nine other countries....
Is it any wonder travel insurance to the US is the highest priced in the developed world.
http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/migrants/travelling/index.jsp
...and lets not forget the reciprocal arrangements that Australians have with nine other countries....
Is it any wonder travel insurance to the US is the highest priced in the developed world.
http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/migrants/travelling/index.jsp
A fact that isn't brought up very often in our media is that America's health care system is already socialized, and has been for a very long time. You can walk or be brought into any hospital or county health clinic in the U.S., and you will receive emergency or urgent care -- free of charge if you can't pay -- and the cost for this care is passed onto taxpayers.
All Obama wants to do is replace this current and hugely inefficient socialized system with one that costs *much* less.
All Obama wants to do is replace this current and hugely inefficient socialized system with one that costs *much* less.
launderess
Well-known member
Not Exactly
Yes, under federal and some local laws hospitals cannot refuse "emergency" care, and not-for profit hospitals must provide a certian level of charity care. It does not automatically follow if one cannot pay one simply walks away and that is that.
Many, many hospitals not only run credit checks, but take down enough information to turn your upaid charges over to a collection agency. Also when one is provided with emergency care, it tends in most instances to be just that. One will be treated until the crisis is either over or stable, then either discharged or transferred to a place such as a city or country run hospital which by their nature and statute take in all persons.
In response to what many hospitals see as deluge of persons seeking emergency care for free, many hospitals are closing their emergency rooms period. This means the only way to be admitted is by a doctor who can do so.
Yes, under federal and some local laws hospitals cannot refuse "emergency" care, and not-for profit hospitals must provide a certian level of charity care. It does not automatically follow if one cannot pay one simply walks away and that is that.
Many, many hospitals not only run credit checks, but take down enough information to turn your upaid charges over to a collection agency. Also when one is provided with emergency care, it tends in most instances to be just that. One will be treated until the crisis is either over or stable, then either discharged or transferred to a place such as a city or country run hospital which by their nature and statute take in all persons.
In response to what many hospitals see as deluge of persons seeking emergency care for free, many hospitals are closing their emergency rooms period. This means the only way to be admitted is by a doctor who can do so.
You missed the point, L. The issue isn't whether people are treated -- they ARE treated -- it's how much this treatment winds up costing us. Our current system is incredibly inefficient and expensive, we pay something like EIGHT TIMES as much for the EXACT SAME CARE as other industrialized countries.
launderess
Well-known member
Tell You What Should Be Done
The United States already spends vast sums on health care, including via the tax deduction for workers health insurance than any other nation, with by many markers dismal results.
Create a national "health care plan", that provides a basic level of insurance for all. If persons want more coverage they can purchase that on the open market.
Remove Medicare and Medicaid, which were never designed to be insurance, and still aren't they are a benefit plan, and set the following parameter:
Below a certian income the federal government and the states will pick up the tab (as with Medicaid).
Above and below a certian age, the same will apply, (same as with Medicare and various federal and state children's health plans).
On the cost containment side, someone is going to have to look down and see they have grown a pair and make some hard choices. Set up a national drug formulary and let the federal government use it's mass purchasing power to control costs. Same thing for other medical supplies.
Pay doctors and others to keep persons healthy, rather than treat them when they are ill. What mainly happens in the United States is people neglect their health until something is found, then a battery of tests and treatments are ordered. Routine and proper physical exams, along with a good doctor and patient relationship goes along way. This may even mean paying physicans a certian fee per patient, sort of putting them on salary as it were.
Establish one standard billing system, and get a handle on administrative costs. One of the reasons so much fraud goes on in health care is the billing system is very disjointed and scattered, with many insurance companies, hosptials, doctors offices,and such all using different systems. Add to this Medicare and Medicaid and you have reams of paperwork, much of it duplicate.
"Cosmo, I just want to tell ya, No matter what you do you're going do die, just like the rest of us".
Americans need to begin to face up to the fact not everyone can live to 100, and or have perfect healthy infants, and or expect every medical treatment to give 100% sucess. In short a short talking to about mortality is in order.
The United States already spends vast sums on health care, including via the tax deduction for workers health insurance than any other nation, with by many markers dismal results.
Create a national "health care plan", that provides a basic level of insurance for all. If persons want more coverage they can purchase that on the open market.
Remove Medicare and Medicaid, which were never designed to be insurance, and still aren't they are a benefit plan, and set the following parameter:
Below a certian income the federal government and the states will pick up the tab (as with Medicaid).
Above and below a certian age, the same will apply, (same as with Medicare and various federal and state children's health plans).
On the cost containment side, someone is going to have to look down and see they have grown a pair and make some hard choices. Set up a national drug formulary and let the federal government use it's mass purchasing power to control costs. Same thing for other medical supplies.
Pay doctors and others to keep persons healthy, rather than treat them when they are ill. What mainly happens in the United States is people neglect their health until something is found, then a battery of tests and treatments are ordered. Routine and proper physical exams, along with a good doctor and patient relationship goes along way. This may even mean paying physicans a certian fee per patient, sort of putting them on salary as it were.
Establish one standard billing system, and get a handle on administrative costs. One of the reasons so much fraud goes on in health care is the billing system is very disjointed and scattered, with many insurance companies, hosptials, doctors offices,and such all using different systems. Add to this Medicare and Medicaid and you have reams of paperwork, much of it duplicate.
"Cosmo, I just want to tell ya, No matter what you do you're going do die, just like the rest of us".
Americans need to begin to face up to the fact not everyone can live to 100, and or have perfect healthy infants, and or expect every medical treatment to give 100% sucess. In short a short talking to about mortality is in order.
launderess
Well-known member
From One Formerly Employed In Health Care
I feel your pain.
However never really minded working the "summer" holidays (4 July, Memorial Day, Labour Day), long as one had Thanksgiving and Christmas off. To me those are way more important family holidays.
I feel your pain.
However never really minded working the "summer" holidays (4 July, Memorial Day, Labour Day), long as one had Thanksgiving and Christmas off. To me those are way more important family holidays.
However Bob,, from that quote re England France etc.
" costs have skyrocketed and in some cases, patients have needlessly suffered and died."
Let's analyze that sentence in particular. Yes costs have skyrocketed, costs for everything have skyrocketed around the world for everything including health care in just about every country on the planet,, nothing alarmist there about universal healthcare.
"patients have needlessly suffered and died" I'm sure some have, but exactly what percentage of the population of England and France have needlessly suffered and died because of their universal healthcare COMPARED to how many people have needlessly suffered and died in the USA because they didn't have any healthcare at all. They're making a bold statement with no facts or figures or pecentages given.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that a significant percentage more people have needlessly suffered and are suffering and dying in the USA prematurely because they don't have universal healthcare and can't afford to go to a doctor or get timely treatment when they need it.
The spin put in these commentaries and what they purposely "omit" in their comparisons is to me scare-mongering 101.
" costs have skyrocketed and in some cases, patients have needlessly suffered and died."
Let's analyze that sentence in particular. Yes costs have skyrocketed, costs for everything have skyrocketed around the world for everything including health care in just about every country on the planet,, nothing alarmist there about universal healthcare.
"patients have needlessly suffered and died" I'm sure some have, but exactly what percentage of the population of England and France have needlessly suffered and died because of their universal healthcare COMPARED to how many people have needlessly suffered and died in the USA because they didn't have any healthcare at all. They're making a bold statement with no facts or figures or pecentages given.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that a significant percentage more people have needlessly suffered and are suffering and dying in the USA prematurely because they don't have universal healthcare and can't afford to go to a doctor or get timely treatment when they need it.
The spin put in these commentaries and what they purposely "omit" in their comparisons is to me scare-mongering 101.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
The American health care system is a chaotic jumble. Yes, it gives excellent care if you have top notch health insurance or unlimited resources.
But if you don't have group health insurance through an employer, you really have your back up against the wall here when it comes to health insurance.
Without group health insurance, many people are denied coverage. Or, they are dropped from their private coverage when they get sick enough to actually need it.
On top of all that, the administrative overhead for private health insurance is something like 27%. For Medicare, it's around 10%. Where does that 17% go? Into the pockets of the for-profit health insurance executives and investors.
Also, medical bills are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in the USA.
We pay more than twice as much as other industrialized western nations for health care, but are twice as unhealthy.
What Obama and the Dems are proposing is a sorely needed reform to our health care system. It's not government run health care; it's guaranteed affordable health insurance for everyone, where you can't be denied for a pre-existing condition and you can't be dropped just because you got sick.
But if you don't have group health insurance through an employer, you really have your back up against the wall here when it comes to health insurance.
Without group health insurance, many people are denied coverage. Or, they are dropped from their private coverage when they get sick enough to actually need it.
On top of all that, the administrative overhead for private health insurance is something like 27%. For Medicare, it's around 10%. Where does that 17% go? Into the pockets of the for-profit health insurance executives and investors.
Also, medical bills are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in the USA.
We pay more than twice as much as other industrialized western nations for health care, but are twice as unhealthy.
What Obama and the Dems are proposing is a sorely needed reform to our health care system. It's not government run health care; it's guaranteed affordable health insurance for everyone, where you can't be denied for a pre-existing condition and you can't be dropped just because you got sick.
Insurance
I am blessed to be on my partner's health insurance plan ... but, there is a one million dollar lifetime cap. I was in the hospital for 8 weeks earlier this year & had 3 surgeries during that time. The insurance total was just under $600,000 ... that means that (at 44 years old) I only have $400,000 left till I make 65 and get on Medicare. The thought of this scares the hell out of me. Even with insurance, I don't feel safe anymore because one more big hospital stay could wipe me out. Todd
I am blessed to be on my partner's health insurance plan ... but, there is a one million dollar lifetime cap. I was in the hospital for 8 weeks earlier this year & had 3 surgeries during that time. The insurance total was just under $600,000 ... that means that (at 44 years old) I only have $400,000 left till I make 65 and get on Medicare. The thought of this scares the hell out of me. Even with insurance, I don't feel safe anymore because one more big hospital stay could wipe me out. Todd
