Help me achieve softer towels

[hcj1440]

Thanks for all of your advice on getting whiter whites. I have learned a lot!

Next burning question is... how do I get softer towels? I never had this issue when I had a toploading washer, but problem started when I got a GE frontloader. After several years I noticed my towels were kind of rough. I washed them on the sanitize cycle with Tide.

Now I have a Miele w1215 and matching dryer. I guess I really have two questions:
1) Can my old towels -- already scratchy -- be saved? I noticed that my cloth diapers got softer after several washes in the sanitize cycle in the Miele, but this has not happened for my towels.
2) What do I do so I don't ruin any new towels that I purchase in the future?

P.S. Is it how I dry them? Do I need to dry them on a lower temp or something? I have tried dryer balls and that hasn't made much difference.

Oh and I don't use fabric softener or dryer sheets because it feels like I'm cheating... or something.

 

[supersuds]

Shouldn't this be in the Super forum?

"The Super Discussions Forum for topics relating to all laundry detergents and additives, old and new, as well as off topic. conversations such as other vintage appliances and vintage electronics, etc."

 

[whirlcool]

Hopefully, Robert will move this topic.

1st. make sure you are not putting too much detergent in your towels. You may have some left over residue from the top loader days. Try washing a load without any detergent at all. Do you still see suds on the window? If so, you have detergent residue.

2nd, I have found that our towels come out much softer if we use the "gentle" heat setting on our dryer. It make take a few minutes longer to dry, but they do come out softer.

 

[gyrafoam]

Well, just use a "half-measure" of liquid fabric softener and then you will only be "half-cheating". It is just enough to "take the edge off" of those towels without making them non-absorbant. I love Suavatel for towels.

Also, if you have the room, buy the next good deal on an old Frigidaire Filtramatic or Filtrator Dryer. Best towel dryers in the world!

 

[suburbanmd]

STPP

STPP makes my towels softer.

 

[toggleswitch]

Stated: ~I never had this issue when I had a toploading washer, but problem started when I got a GE frontloader.

Two words: INADEQUATE RINSING.

Detergent should be added proportionately to the WATER present in the washer (not the amount of clothing).

If a front-load washer uses only 1/3 to 1/4 of the water in the drum/cylinder that the older washer had in the tub, then it stands to reason that the detergent should only be 1/3 to 1/4 of prior dose.

I'd say re-set the machine after your usual cycle to get additional rinses. Use your machine's short /quick / rapid cycle. On my FridGeMore that would be the "Short" cycle that is W-R-R being just three water-changes!

ALso, I use a cheap, watery, gallon-jug sized supermarket brand softener (ok this one is smaller but you get the idea) to kill suds in the first rinse of the normla cycle --beore the additonal rinses are tacked on! Remember, a top-loader uses 1/4 to 1/3 of a cup of this softener, so a front-loader needs half of that(or less!) No waxy build-up and absorption-killing with this stuff and no stink either; it has a very mild scent!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stoichiometrical

 

[toggleswitch]

.

Today's detergents are TOO effective and strip the natural oils out of cottons and other natural fibers making htem feel rough. Waxy / greasy softeners just put the grease/oil back in.

Just use less detergent for far better results.

And please, no cold water on towels; warm only. They need at least 98.6*F / 37*C to dissolve body-oils/sebum. Waxy/greasy stinky softeners are an attempt at times to cover stink with stink that cold water washing will cause over time!

Again lacking PORCELAIN inner and outer drums/cylinders/tubs bakets in their washer, one can use white vinegar for better rinsing INSTEAD of or AFTER usng the cheap suds-killing softener.

 

[hcj1440]

Sorry for posting in the wrong place!

Forum host/moderator, please move to where appropriate...

Detergent Residue. I suppose it could be; but I've actually started to wonder the opposite after reading too much on the internet -- wondering if I've been using too LITTLE detergent and the dirt got caked back on thus causing the roughness. I have soft water and started out using about 2 tbsp of Tide HE powder in the GE frontloader. Sanitize cycle, most of the time. Fast forward 3-4 years, I start noticing the stiff towels, so tried washing them on delicates (but with hot water) instead. Didn't make any difference.

Then recently got Miele washer and wondering if the Miele and that boil wash and the new Persil can do some magic... but wanted to ask here and get some ideas about what causes the roughness in the first place so I can do more edumacated experimentation.

Dryer: will definitely try hitting the gentle button and maybe not drying them quite so much. I feel like I don't know how to use the Miele dryer -- it doesn't have the low/medium/high controls that I'm used to... so I don't really know what to press to achieve a more moderate cycle. Thinking about trying Wrinkle Free drying cycle along with the Gentle button.

Fabric softener: I did try it once, maybe I didn't use enough, as I didn't notice any difference. Or maybe the towels are just too far gone. I'm a bit wary of getting gunk in the washer and causing mold problems. Opinions on this? Is watering the softener down enough of a safety measure?

 

[hcj1440]

Softener to kill suds

Toggle, can you tell me more about using softener to kill the suds in the first rinse... I've never heard of doing that, what does killing the suds do? Does that mean a cleaner rinse? And how do you control when the softener goes in -- do you have to stand there and pour it in through the dispenser at just the right time?

 

[hcj1440]

STPP

Do I still need STPP if I start using Persil universal powder on the towels?

 

[somonica]

rinse! rinse! rinse!

as other here already said...

I got very soft towels from my Miele and I've soft water here too...

1. wash temperature do not make any different in term of softness...

2. no more than 22ml of German powders detergent, do not use liquid detergant...

3. use "Normal" or "cotton" cycle as custom cycle will not give you fast spin after wash and between rinses...

4. select "extra rinse" or "sensitive" option to get an extra rinse cycle...

5. make sure you enable "maximum water level" or "soft water" inside your Miele's program mode...

6. select the fastest spin speed possible...

7. do not line dry towels, use your dryer...

8. you may need to use vinegar for the first few time of washes, after that you will not need to use it...

9. that is it! no high temp, no STPP, no fabric softener or dryer sheets.... and old towels will be nice and soft again too!

10. good luck and pls keep us posted!

 

[favorit]

Zeolite is the culprit, switch to liquid Persil

Many will tell you that liquids are less effective on stains than powders. That's true liquids don't contain oxygen bleach, while powders/megaperls do. You can easily recover just adding a bit of liquid oxygen bleach (not in the bleach compartment, but in the main wash one) also don't use prewash.

from henkel website

"1986 - Persil phosphate-free – progress for the environment.
Environmental protection emerged into the public consciousness in the 1980s. But the topic already had a long history at Henkel. As early as the 1950s, Henkel was conducting experiments to research the biodegradability of surfactants. In 1966, the research project “phosphate substitute” was launched. Because surfactants, which release the soil from the laundry, and phosphates, which soften the water, pollute surface waters. The researchers succeeded in developing surfactants with better and better biodegradability. And for phosphates they found a substitute substance: Zeolite A (Sasil®), for which a patent application was filed in 1973"

http://www.henkel.com/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_com/hs.xsl/laundry-1217.htm?iname=Persil&countryCode=com&BU=detergents&parentredDotUID=null&redDotUID=0000000GHM&brand=0000000GH6&param1=history

 

[favorit]

check also safety data sheets

zeolites are listed as "Na silicates"

http://https//www.sdb.henkel.de/sectionNew/index.cfm?language=EN&system=&section=W

 

[brisnat81]

I found that it was just our old towels.

They were reasonabley fluffy from a TL machine, but could be stiff as a board when line drying, or only a little fluffy from the dryer after we switched to the Miele

We bought a new set of towels about 2 years ago and without changing anything they are soft off the line (If not fluffy) and fluffy out of the dryer.

I use a full scoop of Drive Front loader and a Cottons 50degC wash, with 3 rinses in my Miele W2888. I would never suggest using less than half the reccomended dose of detergent, but our detergents arent formulated for machines that you could wash a small child in.

If you feel you need to improve rinsing, make sure that your sensitive option is programmed to add an extra rinse and increase the water level. I found however that it made no difference to the softness of the towels. These days I just use 3 standard level rinses

 

[mrboilwash]

Usually scratchy towels result from hard water mineral deposits like calcium and magnesium. Even soft water contains some minerals. Sometimes it can be just because of poor quality of the towels.

In both cases they cannot be saved. Get new ones and change your laundry habits.

High temperature washing, hard water, too little detergent for the water hardness, high pH from powder detergents, this all may account to the problem.

I have had excellent results without giving up my beloved boilwashes with the following routine.

- switch to liquids, they are usually milder in pH and don`t have washing soda in them.
- Use plenty of detergent, less is not more, you want to keep all minerals of the water in check.
- Use the highes spin speed to save on the dryer, but it may be necessary to give every single towel a quick shake before putting it in the dryer. (Flexes the fibers)
- Dry on high if you like.

 

[toggleswitch]

.

1- Toggle: Can you tell me more about using softener to kill the suds in the first rinse... I've never heard of doing that, what does killing the suds do? Does that mean a cleaner rinse?

Yes the waxless softener I use gets rid of suds and hopefully detergent residue. I see it as making subsequent rinses more effective.

2-And how do you control when the softener goes in -- do you have to stand there and pour it in through the dispenser at just the right time?

In my machine, a Frigidaire, engineered by European designers, the mentality is a European one where the bleach normally goes in the first rinse. This is intelligent on two levels. In a front-loader, washing results would be even worse by adding bleach to detergent. Secondly, according to our Hyacinth... er....our very own Launderess, I mean....... *LOL* one must first wash out the organic matter, THEN bleach for sanitation/ disinfection.

So in my machine I just put softener in the bleach dispenser. Worse comes to worse it gives me fresh-water rinses after the softener to ensure more "pure" rinses and fabrics,meaning with fewer residual chemicals.

 

[launderess]

Toggles

Don't know how "European" the bleach method mentioned above is, as most homes on that side of the pond use oxygen bleach. *LOL*

However the standard commercial laundry method or anyplace else where LCB is used that washing is done in the "wash" cycle and bleaching in either the first rinse or a dedicated bleach cycle.

Commcercial laundries normally use a special bleach cycle where water temperature and pH levels are controlled not only to provide the best stain removal, whitening, and sanitation of laundry, but so that the chlorine will activate and evaporate off, leaving less rinsing and souring to be done. Otherwise the stuff stays in laundry and continues to work on textiles, breaking them down.

In General:

Normally laundry that is washed at too high a pH and not adjusted down properly (sour rinse), will feel rough and scratchy. Also there might be a build up of detergent and mineral residue as well.

Instead of rewashing with detergent, I'd try "stripping" the towels by washing them again with a good dose of phosphates (STPP), and nothing else. If you see froth in the water, then you have tackled problem number one. The add some white vinegar to the second to final rinse, then rinse again to help remove any remaining traces of build-up.

Finally spin towels on the highest speed possible. Don't know how it works, but whenever I bung my towels into the Hoover TT spin drier for several minutes, they dry much softer. Can also see traces of froth and residue coming out of the towels, even after using a good high quality European commercial laundry detergent, and several deep rinses in my old Miele. Methinks there is something about the uber-fast spinning that forces residues out of textiles. Even when a detergent has left scent in my wash, several minutes in the spinner and the scent is gone.

Zeolites:

Can't stand the stuff, and is one of the reasons do not use Persil as much as one should, despite having purchased a case of the stuff. The commercial European laundry product I've latched onto does not contain Zeolites, and find myself using that much more often.

If your towels aren't that dirty, I've had good sucess with either "Vaska" laundry liquid, or "Linen Wash". The former was on sale at local shop, and with a coupon only cost $1, the later got off eBay as a case lot.

 

[rudin1969]

Launderess,
Le Blanc also produces a dedicated detergent for towels:
Towel wash

http://linenwash.net/products/towelwash/

 

[hcj1440]

Update from OP -- latest results

OK have done two loads of towels. The light towels went in with 1.5 scoops of Persil universal powder (about 100ml -- I normally use 60-70ml) at 95C. Interesting result here was that some very old stains have turned BLUE! So I'm encouraged that it might be doing something different, but think I need to rinse them again. Didn't get softer.

Dark towels went in with 70ml megaperls color at 75C. Made sure it was on the soft water/higher level rinse. No luck here either on getting softer.

Report on dryer: tried the gentle option but seems like I can't adjust it to actually dry all the way while choosing gentle (it would stop and towels would still be damp). After 2x I was in a hurry and took it off gentle. Will try it again because I must be doing something funky. Will go back and read manual also -- for example what the heck is the "smooth" cycle?