Help me Make an Informed Decision re: a Washing Machine

[laundrymaven]

Good information everyone. Thanks again. At this point, I'm going to need to do some in-store visits to look at new machines, ask about exchange policies, and also hopefully take a road trip to Grand Rapids. It may take us a bit to get it all figured out, but I'll post again when we make a decision - or if I have more questions.

Eugene - I'm glad you speak highly of Synergy Appliance. That's good to know.

GusHerb - The idea of an LWN control-panel swap intrigues me, but I still question if its within our novice capabilities. Install time would be the big factor. The Maytag Commercial unit would be on my short list for sure, except for its limitation of half- or full-tub levels. Because of our septic...

Yogitunes - Like Dadoes, our septic has never given us problems, and it's a setup that is absolutely the norm around here. We keep our use of bleach minimal, don't put grease down drains, don't throw "flushable" wipes down toilets, our detergent is a gray-water/septic safe HE brand, etc. We have pump outs every few years as a matter of maintenance, and dig out the tank-to-drainfield filter once a year to spray it off (good times for my husband). The septic guys have never been concerned. But it's also a reason why we don't want a washer that is a water hog all of the time.

One more question - am I overlooking any family-sized FL's that don't have a huge door size? The depth of our laundry room wall is only about 30". In order to open a typical FL door, I'd have to be smashed up against a bank of cabinets opposite the washer.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[gusherb]

I think swapping the control panel should be pretty easy. I've had the control panel opened on mine and it's just two screws, then you'd just need to swap the wires/harness over to the new panel. I think that should be all there is to it. 

 

Go to reply #18 to see what the inside of the panel looks like: 

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?59090

 

[laundrymaven]

GusHerb

For some reason, I didn't realize it was just a simple harness. Had thought it was more complicated, but that would be within our capabilities. Hmm. So if I found a 2017 or 2018 LWN model, I should easily be able to swap the control panel with a 2017 AWN residential control panel then, if I recall correctly?

Your SQ is 3.19 cf capacity, right? Is it noticeably smaller than the residential units at 3.3 cf?

This is definitely worth mulling over. Though part of me wonders if we'd be better off with a larger sized DD refurb. I suppose this is why I need to get out and start looking at washers in person. Thanks!

 

[wiskybill]

If you look at refurbished machines

Consider the Maytag version, if you find one.

I have the Maytag version of your present machine.

MVWC6ESWW1 I bought this new in 2009.

I replaced the solid lid with the glass lid from the top of the line model.
It helped me get used to the auto water level much faster.

This model has a stainless steel tub. One of the issues you mentioned was
rust. Something you might look for on the used market.

I've been pretty happy with it so far, although it probably doesn't get the same usage as yours. And I have a few more machines to pick from on laundry day.

Good luck! Bill

 

[gusherb]

I think the tub is the same size in the LWN as the AWNE, I think they used to round it up to 3.3 when it wasn’t actually that large. Or they changed it, I’m not sure but I doubt the latter. With that said, the agitator does a really good job at turnover even when it’s slightly overloaded. I can fit 9-10 full sized towels in mine, or a full size comforter, and it will still turnover at a reasonable rate.

 

[DADoES]

 
If you're considering another DD (WP, KM or whatever), you might look for a model without the auto water level function.  Those sensor switches tend to be the flaky item.  You mentioned some repairs were done on your current machine, was that switch involved in any of them?

Mid- and upper-level DDs had 4 and 5 water level choices and some are fully variable between min and max.

KitchenAid-branded DDs are notable for typically having an agitator with larger fins and running at a slower speed (3-speed models) for reduced aggressiveness/wear on the clothes.

 

[mattl]

Sounds like you have a conundrum.   You do realize  you do not have to open the door of a FL all the way, really depends on how tight your laundry room is.  After a decade with a FL I would not ever consider a TL machine.  You will find folks in both camps here TL and FL.  I find the lift and drop of a FL to be a substantially better wash action than trying the move the water through the clothes as I see most new machines do.  Older ones used to move the clothes through the water.

 

Question - if you stacked the washer and dryer could you rotate them 90 degrees? 

 

[kate1]

You are in a similar conundrum to myself, I had a thread in Imperial recently about my own issue. My 20 year old DD Whirlpool recently stopped working and I have been unsuccessful in finding the correct replacement part. I have four kids and my husband and I both work in fairly grungy professions so heavy-duty cleaning performance is a must. I had been thinking of getting another used DD machine but the potential for getting a lemon worried me tremendously. It does sound like you have an awesome used appliance dealer semi-local to you though, which would alleviate much of my concern personally. The solution I have come to for myself is buying a commercial SQ as well as a front loader. I’m moving into a house in a month that has dual laundry hookups and comes with a washer (though it’s an awful HE top loader) that will tide us over until I can plonk down the cash for my new machine (the SQ is getting purchased first). I’m not concerned about the washer capacity on it, it seems more than capable of handling the loads my family is going to throw at it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[laundrymaven]

WhiskeyBill - Your washer is very similar to mine! But the glass-top lid and stainless tub are definitely improvements. Very nice. I have to admit, reading so much about washing machines has made me appreciate the one we have a bit more. My main gripe about it has always been how terribly it twists clothes, sheets, everything. I noticed it from the very first cycle in 2009, and while I have grown used to it, I still don't like it. Our old Speed Queen just didn't do that. I'm not sure why. As for cleaning, it works. Since it's an HE machine, it took us a while to learn that less is more when it comes to detergent usage, but we figured it out and have since been happy on that front. I used to launder kids' cloth diapers too, and still wash on average, one load/day or more of regular laundry. If it weren't for the tub rust, I wouldn't be searching for a new machine.

GusHerb - Thanks for that info. Good to know.

Dadoes - Yes. I believe it was the load-sensing or pressure switch? The machine would fill with water while spinning dry, or agitate at the wrong time. My husband has fixed it a couple of times. It's been good for a while now though. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll have to prepare a list of possible models and questions.

MattL - Yep. It's a conundrum. Trust me, I've stared at our tiny laundry room for a good while. Short of moving the window or pocket door, re-routing plumbing, and losing cabinet storage space, there isn't much room for improvement. Stacked at 90-degrees won't work either. Technically, we could *fit* a FL machine now. Barely. IF it had a door with a left-side hinge. But it would be cumbersome to deal with every time, and we couldn't use a pedestal due to the upper cabinets currently above the washer and dryer.

Kate1 - Wow. That would be a lot of laundry! Good luck with your decisions. Are you planning to purchase an LWN model then?

 

[lukes]

LaundryMaven,
The capacity on the speed queen LWN commercial models and 2017 residential models are the same. Speed Queen is just rounding up the 3.26 to 3.3 on the residential model literature, if you dive into the parts manuals they both use the same washtub part number "719P3". Below is the spec for the commercial LWNE22SP115TW01 which lists 3.26 capacity.
http://docs.alliancelaundry.com/tech_pdf/production/AO18-0041_SW_RC_OPL.pdf

Switching the control panel is easy but is not cheap

If you are moving from a larger capacity unit you will find the speed queen and MVWP575GW small. Also if you are trying to save water you may want to consider the LG front loader WM3770HWA Lorain loves.

 

[laundrymaven]

Narrowing our options...Would an LG FL work?

Checking back in with the latest updates. Sorry, this is a lot:

1) I called Synergy Appliance in Grand Rapids. Their larger capacity refurb direct drives cost around $425-$525 (we'd likely be looking at the upper-end number). Transportation expenses would be an extra $150-$175 (we'd probably get a $10 credit for them taking our old Kenmore). So, that would bring our total expense to around $650-$700, not counting the gas money and time associated with making an initial road trip to Grand Rapids.

2) I visited a reputable, small-town appliance store. I looked at the 2018 Speed Queens and we discussed them at length. The owners have a 2018 TR7 that replaced a long-running LG front-loader. They said their old LG was much better for large capacity loads, but that the new Speed Queen cleans better. One of them works with pottery, and she told me that she routinely puts clay-soiled clothes into the machine on heavy-duty and that they come out clean. She said they fully recommend it over all other TL models they sell. *Shrug* Who knows.

3) Also still up for consideration is the Maytag MVWB766 (this is the commercial, better-warrantied version of MVWB765). Good looks. Nice capacity, but another suspect agi-pellar and questionable quality. If it washed well and lasted several years, this would be my top choice.

4) I haven't really considered Fisher Paykel. Thoughts on their TL with agitator? Not sure how difficult it is to find service though, and some reports indicate the only hot water they use is on an allergen cycle.

5) I'm giving another hard look at the LG WM3770 FL model. I took measurements of our available laundry room space: 64" long from entry door to window wall; 66" width from side wall behind washer/dryer, to outside edge of counter top where the cabinets and laundry sink are; 32" is the depth of the alcove where the washer/dryer sit (and that is if you include door molding); 52.5" from floor to the bottom of our wall-mount cabinets which sit above the washer and dryer. The LG has a 51" depth with its door open, so if you assume it is about 5" out from the wall, that leaves 10" of space between the open door and the counter top. I suppose it's doable if I'm standing off to the side when opening the door? But I'd want a pedestal, because they sit too low otherwise. The pedestal is 13.6", which would put the machine at 52.3" high. So it might fit under our cabinets. Barely. But even if we squeeze these things into our laundry room, I'd no longer have floor space for an air-drying rack (because of the door swing), but could probably mount one over the counter. It's just a lot to think about, and then I worry about warranty and customer service if the LG develops problems. The FL's have so many bells and whistles and I prefer functional simplicity. If $ and space were no issue, I'd be all over Miele.

In summary, we can:

a) Spend a lot of time and moderate expense to buy a used, quality refurb TL machine;
b) Buy a Speed Queen for more expense, great build quality and warranty, good local customer service, but less-than-ideal washing and smallish capacity;
c) Buy a commercial-warrantied Maytag for more expense, good customer service, good capacity, but questionable quality and washing ability, noisier, etc.
d) Cram LG front-loaders into our tiny laundry room for significant expense, enjoy great capacity but hope it works for a good while, because service/warranty could be challenging.

What would you do? I'm not excited to spend money on any of these options, but we need to figure something out. Remember, we are on a septic system, so water hogs without adjustable water levels are not an option. Thanks everyone. Sorry to type a book.

 

[DADoES]

 
<blockquote>$425 to $525 for a refurbed direct-drive.</blockquote> Oh my.  Is that for only a washer, or a washer & dryer pair?  I have a 1999 Kenmore 90 for sale at $325 that is rebuilt with a new tub support (centerpost & bearings), spin drive (shaft, brake & clutch), refurbed transmission (agitator shaft, spin gear & neutral drain parts, fresh oil).  Only one inquiry in 6 months.  I also have a 2003 Whirlpool that's similarly refurbed that I haven't yet tried to sell.

Regards to F&P, do you mean new or used?  Anyway, the agitator model runs a full-hot fill (or warm) on the Allergy cycle.  The other cycles fill with the selected temperature only for a pretreatment phase which sprays a concentrated detergent solution over the load for a few mins, then adds cold water (without draining the pretreat solution) for the agitated wash period.  They have auto-sensing water level and five manual choices (auto-sense selects one of the five).  Low is just up to the bottom agitator fins, high is to top of the tub.  Here's a YouTube channel with several videos of a current-model agitator F&P running various cycles and loads.  JoeyPete

Frontloaders are, of course, the best choice for water conservation.

 

[good-shepherd]

What would you do?

If those were my options I'd go to the refurb place and bargain hard on one of their used DD machines and be ready to walk if I couldn't get a healthy discount. But I'm a cheap skate on stuff like that.

However, don't tell them where you drove from or you'll lose negotiation leverage.

Think about it, they probably get them for free, select the best ones needing the least work, put a low level employee to clean them up, then sell at a premium price, almost all of which is pure profit. There is room to haggle price, unlike new machines were margins are razor thin.

That would at least check off a few of your boxes.

 

[good-shepherd]

Speed Queen on CL

https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/app/d/grand-rapids-speed-queen-washer-and/6829410285.html

 

[laundrymaven]

Dadoes and Good-shepherd

Those prices are just for the washer. Per Eugene of Lorraine, the owner does top-notch work on his refurbs, but yeah. It's a bit of money. Also, our time is money.

I am not against bargaining at all, but the idea of spending a day driving to Grand Rapids, attempting to bargain, and possibly just turning around and going back home, having wasted gas and valuable time, is not appealing to me. But I hear you good-shepherd. That would be the ideal option.

Dadoes - I'm referring to new F&P. There seems to be a loyal following of people who have had their washers for a long time, but I'm not sure how current models rate.

Good-shepherd - I saw that Craig's List ad a couple of days ago, but it looks suspicious to me. Those are clearly brand-new machines, but someone says they are 2-3 years old. I'm cautious when it comes to CL. And since they are in Grand Rapids, transportation would still need to be factored in. We have a truck, but properly hauling, loading/unloading washing machines is not that simple, right? It would just be my husband and I doing the lifting.

I know others on here can commiserate, but this whole experience is just so ridiculous. I sometimes think we need to become impulse buyers and not read up on anything, because ignorance just might be bliss, lol. But it's against my analytical nature.

 

[good-shepherd]

Speed Queen- but it looks suspicious to me

Just e-mail and ask some simple questions like: Did you buy them new, is the dryer gas or electric? (ad didn't specify). etc.

Flakey Craigslist sellers are usually easy to weed out in an e-mail or two.

Could be a situation where they moved into a new place and have their own machines or the wife wants front loaders and they really don't know much about them and just want them gone.

 

[mattl]

I'd opt for the LG FL as I previously mentioned, and others have posted.  The operation can be as simple as you like or use some options if need be occasionally. How does the dryer vent?  If it's possible to side vent you may be able to get the machines closer than 5" from the wall. If I recall the LG can side vent. Just a thought.

 

If you can post some pictures.

 

[laundrymaven]

Think I've made a decision

After a lot of measuring, and measuring again, I think we're going to take the plunge and go with the LG FL's. I just can't find a TL that suits our needs and is worthy of the price.

It will be a really tight fit, but I confirmed that we actually have 52 3/4" from bottom of cabinets to the floor. So the LG 3770 washer and a same-sized dryer on pedestals, should just barely squeeze in. My understanding is top venting isn't necessary on these models, and there will be some space between the units and along the sides, so I think airflow will be adequate. Space in front of the washer and dryer won't be ideal, but I think we can get used to it. The door-clearance issue might not be as much of a concern as I thought it would. And I've decided nothing exists that will be ideal in our laundry room. At least this way, we get the functionality of a larger washer, turbo (fast wash) option, and less water in the septic system.

It's going to cost a lot more than we anticipated, since we weren't going to replace our dryer. But a larger dryer would probably be helpful since wash size will be increasing. And hopefully we can sell our old dryer on CL.

The real clincher is that Costco (of which we are members) is selling the LG3770/DLEX3570V duo, with pedestals, for a great price. Buying from Costco gives us a two-year manufacturer's warranty, and if we pay with our Costco Visa card, we get an additional two-year equivalent warranty, for four years parts and labor coverage. I'm still debating paying an extra $200 for the three-year SquareTrade warranty offered through Costco. If we did that, I confirmed the benefits would stack for seven years. Normally I don't think extended warranties are a good value, but seven years parts and labor sounds pretty good. And even if we paid for the warranty, it's still a few hundred dollars less for the full set than buying anywhere else without the warranty.

On that note, I really, really wanted to do business with the small appliance store I visited. If the price was only $50-$100 different, I still would have. But the savings of a few hundred dollars, coupled with the extensive warranties, can't be beat. And I did confirm that we have vendors who service LG in my area, so that's important, because I've read it can be an issue for some.

Fingers crossed this all works out. I haven't placed my order yet, but likely will by the end of the day. It may take a few weeks, but I'll post a photo when all is said and done. Thanks everyone for giving me good information to consider. If you have any final suggestions or noteworthy comments, by all means, let me know!

 

[gusherb]

Did you ask the local dealer if they’re willing to price match? The ones around here are always willing to match the lowest price, especially if it’s a big box store.

 

[askolover]

Several of our neighbors had their washers and dishwashers draining out onto their yards.  But, a septic guy once told us that septic tanks need water and washing machine water is no problem for a septic tank.  We never had any trouble out of ours in the 26 years we had it before the city installed sewer system.  And we had a dishwasher and disposal.