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High Water Levels compromise tumbling action

Lavamat jon. This would make sense in that the early Bendix front loaders were not that good in cleaning. They did have high water levels. I remember this from the laudromats. The clothes sort of floated. This would support your theory for the "Delicate" cycle in that it uses more water (which my LG does) to cushion the clothes.

Ray
 
Staber Washers

It's interesting that you mention these, I've seen a couple of them, one in action and it's a fairly impressive machine but they have had their share of troubles. It uses approx. 5 gallons of water per fill, one wash and 2 rinses for a total of around 15 gallons. The sounds the machine makes with the hexagon shaped basket surging through the water pool in the bottom of the tub is incredible, you can hear the clothes slamming around in the water. The cycle is relatively short, a plus if you tend to do washing all on one day. On the downside, the washer is rather noisy - especially during spin, not just a little bit loud either, this was a 'run for the hills' sort of loud. The capacity could be better, other machines surpass the Staber by a long shot and the door/opening in the actual clothes basket is a bit clunky and small. They are indeed intended to be serviced by the customer/owner but this would probably be a rather daunting task for many people, especially if you needed to replace a set of tub bearings.
 
Stabers

On the Staber website, they show a cut away view of a Staber washing. The water levels appear to be higher than most FL's. But if the drum is very small, (note they only mention you can wash a Queen size comfortor, not a King) that could account for 5 gallons leading to a "high" water level.
I have never seen one of these in person, I think that they are actually kind of rare compared to other brands. I also think that if something is built to a Military spec, noise is only a secondary consideration, function comes first.
 
I used to have a negative opinion about the Staber machines but reading more about them has changed that. The Staber seems to be a promising design, and they have quite a few features missing on modern FL's: water level control, mechanical timer, and short cycle time comparable to a TL. I watched the videos again, and the "passive pumping action" is very interesting to say the least, and while energy efficient, it isn't afraid to take a lot of water in!!

Not to mention they now have a matching dryer and a variety of colors to choose from!

--Austin
 
I thought so.........they added their own control panel. Per

Disclaimer: Staber has modified a Whirlpool Commercial OPL dryer. Staber is not affiliated in any way with Whirlpool Corporation.

How can they get a way with that? Do they pay a licensing fee or do they need a special agrement?

L@@K at that price...... OUCH
$800 Electric
$875 Gas
 
Staber Hexagon tube...

Some days ago I worte to Staber industries, because I found their washers very similar to our European TL washers, although the completely don't. I asked them these following things:

- why don't you use a circular tub? RE: we consider that in a hexagon tub we can get more water turbolence. I don't think so, because a circular tub with three vanes or more can make the same turbolence they want, using more less water! Then I don't want to imagine the spin... in a hexagon tub???? Your laundry will surely be still wet at the end!

- why do you put the trasmission on the front side? RE: we do that to make possible repairations quicker and easier. Untill here there were wahsers like those, I always have found the trasmission on the back side (now the tub has rounded, an the trasmission is generally on the left side), anyway I wondered myself a lot of this answer...

I think at the end that both techincal Staber choises are responsible of the high noise you've spoken about, even bacuse I didn't hear spoken about any noise-isolation ("assenza di vibrazioni", "ammortizzatori","polistirolo"...sorry for using Italian:-) support at all in those machines...

If I were in USA I wouldn't have any problem to choose between FL and TL: without any doubt FRONT LOADING! They use less water, and even if this is not good for someone, remeber that they have got their big windowed lid through you can watch at your laundry tumbling making yourself happy!

But as I'm European and Italian (although I own both type of washers), I prefer TOP LOADING! You can load them easier, you dont' find your laundry twisted at the end of the wash-cycle (as it happens if you overload a FL, because the bottom of the drum rotates but the lid doesn't, while in a H-axis TL both side of the drum rotate), and even if you can't watch at your laundry tumbling, if you open the lid you find your drum sudsed, and if you keep it closed, you HEAR your washer whashing, because each of our own wahser has got a soul... you don't need to see it to hear it it's enogh :-)
Good Bye Everyone!
Diomede

PS: Here it's snowing so much we can't go anywhere... I'll stay at home the whole weekend!
 
Hmm,

That dryer doesn't quite match the washer. And it's quite a price for a dryer, but I guess you get a sturdy machine for it. A bit of an overkill I guess.

The new washer models in color have sound insulation, but the extra money they want for it is quite a bit. $500.- for the color and sound insulation is too much I think.

I still find these machines fascinating. I too love H-axis toploaders.

Diomede,

I never had problems with laundry being twisted in a frontloader. The laundry never reaches the door, it stays in the drum, no problems here. I think you can only achieve that by severely overloading.
 
SRSwirl

I could put your cold power to the test with a old reliable stand by detergent that had been around for years and really works well in a front loader and/or top loader that being Oxydol in a hot wash was by far the best detergent that you could buy. How do I know this is my grandmother had a Westinghouse laundomat and used oxydol and everyone always asked her how she got her sheets so white. Also when I was living at home and when I got married most places that we lived we used oxydol whether it had hard water or soft water it always did an excellant job of getting clothes clean. It even worked better than Tide. But I do agree with you that it has a lot to do with the quality of the water whether it is hard or soft. My grandmothers place in West Bingham had naturaly soft water which helps a great deal and my grandpa on my mom's side and my aunt Hazel of my mom's side used oxydol and always produced a wonderful wash that would knock your sox off. I wish P&G would not have sold the Oxydol name and formula to anoter company redox cause it isn't the same. I liked it the way it was.

 
Front vs Top Load

Using my Maytag Wringer Washer is like driving my old Volkswagen Bug...it just puts a smile on my face, but for everyday, I went to a front load washer back in 1997 and do like the front load design best. The European brands like Miele, Bosch, and Asko don't hold as much, but have internal water heaters capable of 165 to 205 degree water heating, which produce the whitest whites on the planet, and final spin speeds of 1200 to 1600rpm, which when you pull towels or jeans out, they are practically dry. They save a lot of water and energy and are quiet. I currently have a Bosch Axxis, and am very pleased. If you are a laundry nut like I am, go for the performance features and you're more likely to be happy long term. Have fun shopping. :)
 
H-axis or V-axis washers?

Let me share some of my experince on the washers.
Since 197x, I had owned
1) Zanasui FL, then
2) AEG TL H-axis, then
3) Brandt TL H-axis.
These are all cold filled with about 5kg capacity with one fixed low-speed spin.
We tended to use cold or "heated 30C" wash because the high cost of electricity over there. The total wash time is over one hour. The wash result is satisfory as compared with other Japan TL using agitator-plate.
We prefered TL H-axis over FL because TL needs a lesser space width (about 20"). The wash drum is supported by bearings on both ends. There is a lesser leakage hazard due to door seal/boot.

After living in Canada, I bought a 96 Maytag Dependable Care TL which is still working without any repairs. This is the first time I own an full-size TL with agitator. To my surprise it finished the washing in less than the half-time of our previous washers. It is great in "time", but "poor" in the washing result. Some trace of white stuff (undissolved detergent and lint) are noticeable on laundry.
It take us a long time to learn and improve the washing in TL-agitator.
Use powder in Warm/Hot wash and liquid in Cold wash.
Dissolve the detergent first in water with small-load water-level.
Put in the laundry/clothing.
Select large-load water-level.
Switch on to start the actual washing.

However, I still prefer the washing result of my previous H-axis washers over my present TL-agitator.

I am adding an Huebsch FL which is an older/dis-continous model and will learn to use it soon.

It takes time to learn when switching from one type of washer to another type.
 
Huebsch LTZ85 arrives at last!

At last, my Huebsch LTZ85 arrived this afternoon. It is a floor model with some dents and scratch. My 96 Maytag TL is moved from main floor to the basement as a second/spare unit.
Huebsch FL is put in place of Maytag at the main floor.

Apparently the Huebsch FL has been in the store for guite a long time. The Rear Control Console was loose. The shipping package is missing so there could a possibility of damaging the suspension. Before connecting it up, I tried to do inpection/service first.
Unscrewed the control console and inspected the circuit board/wiring inside the console. This looks OK. Tighten the screws of the console to the top.
Unscrewed the rear inspection plate to visual inspect the motor and belt. Looks OK.
Unscrewed the kick plate at the front. The store did replace the hose the outer tub and the pump. Cleaned up the patches of detergent residue at the base which was leaked due to the bad hose. The pump looks OK. All four dampers look OK.
Surpise to find Huebsch FL uses cast iron block as the counter-balancing weight which is similar to Miele. Most FL other use concrete blocks.
Two rubber footing were bad, one torn and one missing. Fitted two new rubber footing.
Connected up Hot, Cold and Drain hoses.
Moved into the exact location and did a leveling and tightened up the lock-nuts of the footings.
I was totally exhaused after three hours of work.

Then came the important moment of trial test.
Pluged in power. Selected the "Rinse and Spin" cycle.
It tumbled OK and is quieter than my TL.
It did "pulse spin, medium speed and high speed speed". The high speed spin produce a jet-turbine noise which is somewhat louder than the spin of my TL. I think my TL spin at a speed approximately equal to the medium speed of Huebsch FL. The vibration transfer to the floor is not worse than my TL. So the leveling is OK and I was much relieved.

Next the FL needed a "wash cycle" to clean itself without any laundry.
Put 1/4 cup ordinary powder detergent and use the Hot wash cycle.
Wow, the whole drum was full of foam and sud. However let it go through the whole cycle and run another "Rinse and Spin" to clear out all foam/sud.
During the test, an ammeter was used to measure the supply current. The internal heater was found to take 8.8A which is about 1050W at 120V.
Took a break for dinner and then did two real REGULAR washing.
One light color laundry using 1/8 cup of powder detergent at Warm wash. Nearly no foam/sud this time. I think I should use 1/4 cup. Washing result is better and could wash about 30% more than my TL.
One dark color lauudry using 1/4 cup of liquid color detergent.
Very little foam/sud. Not trace of lint on dark or black laundry.

I am too tired now and need a sleep.
Good night and write a bit more in the morning!
 
Cleaning Inside Washer

Here is a good tip to clean front loaders: set the washer for normal/hot or warm water (tap temp is fine), and as the machine is filling pour about one quart of white vinegar into the machine and let it complete the cycle. Vinegar is a mild acid and will not only deodorize and kill mould/fungus, but rid the machine of detergent residue as well.

As an alternative one can use those professional strength products sold for cleaning insides of automatic dishwasher/washing machines. One brand is called "Dishwasher Magic/Washing Machine Magic".

A Miele tech also suggested using baking soda in the same cycle as the vinegar, but am too chicken to test this. Will ask the Miele tech when he comes to install our washer this weekend about it. For the record, do use baking soda and white vinegar to "clean" drains, but it does make quite allot of foam.

Congrats on your new baby, we're waiting for some snaps!

Launderess
 
New FL vs TL and Old FL!

Thanks Laundress for cleaning tips and will post some snaps soon.

When I did the first REGULAR washing in Huebsch FL, the water level is very low, below the door opening. I was very skeptical about its washing and rinsing effect of the new FL because my previous 197X Zanusi FL had its water level above the door opening. I could not tell about the water levels in the other two old TL H-axis (AEG and Brandt).
It seems that the new FL simply soak the laundry with detergent water, lift and drop it on the top of the bottom wet laundry.
I was much relieved when I noted the washing result. From my poor memory, it seems to clean as well as my old H-axis washers and better than my present Maytag TL. Definitely the laundry is less wet than TL and old H-axis washers.
The drying time for laundry from Huebsch FL was about 45 min, while the same laundry from Maytag TL would take at least 60 min.
So far I have not try the other cycles (PP and Delicate) which would use high water level washing. PP will use normal speed tumbing (like Regular) but use medium speed spin. Delicate will use low-speed tumbling and low-speed spin.

It is new to me that Huebsch use "Pulse spin" prior to the normal speed spin. It rams up for a few second and back. It does the same a few time. Apparently Huebsch uses this "Pulse spin" profile to distribute the laundry while other new FL use some complicate "feedback control spin" profiles (which require feedback sensors for sensing motor-current, speed, and excessive foam/sud) for laundry distribution. All FL use "Out of Balance" switch for excessive unbalance condition.

The current for tumbling varies from 0.6A to less than 3A.
The short time current for "Pulse spin" reach a max of 10A.
The current for spin is 4 to 5A.
The heater takes about 8.8A.
Huebsch is so designed that Heating and Tumbling will not take place at the same time for the Heated wash.
It does show that even if the Heating and Tumbling take place at the same time, the supply current will not exceed 12A ( lower than the 15A socket rating). However, Huebsch engineers must have their own school of thought in laundry.

When comparing the construction between my TL and FL;

1)Maytag TL is far more simple and robust. Only one single-phase induction motor - rotating in one direction for agitating and in the opposited for spinning using its bullet-proof transmission. Both inner and outer tubs are metal. Very simple mechanical selector and electro-mechanical timer control. No elecronics at all. Extremely easy to serve and repair.

2)Huebsch FL is far more complicate and also robust. It has one drive motor and one pump motor. Power electronic control board for drive motor. ATC for Warm wash and Heater for Heated wash. Door seal(boot)introduce extra maintenance and leakage hazard. Higher spin speed in H-axis will give rise to a probility of excessive vibration and unbalance. Altough this older version Huebsch uses electro-mechanical timer, there are also process electronic timing control in the control board which is also control the advancement of the electro-mechanical timer. FL has both stainless steel inner and outer tubs.
Thus the service/repair of FL is not anyone job.

Hope this could be of some interect.
 
Photos of LTZ85

There are 4 shocks (damper with spring) suspending tub onto the base.

2-10-2006-14-50-10--The7.jpg
 
YAY Obligatory underwear shot.

Thanks so much for the snap-shots.
Interesting that the door hinges on the right sides.

Did I miss something?
1- This looks like an Amana control panel to me.........
2- How many rinses normally, and then with *extra* option?

Thanks also for sharing the pic of your fist wash with us all!
 

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