Hobart FFW Income Power Melting??

[mwendig]

HI Everyone,

I got a Hobart FFW off of Ebay last winter. With the help of the forums here I got it cleaned up and installed. It works great! That is until a couple of weeks ago.

The unit was sitting on but not cycling when it popped the breaker. When I took the front panel off I saw the incoming power connection had melted. I have 6 gauge range wire (silver in color) to a 50 amp breaker. That goes to the plastic distribution box where it was connected via screws to the units incoming power lines. I assumed it was due to age and perhaps some corrosion. I installed outdoor wire nuts rated for 220 that have di electric grease in them. After only a week of residential use that too melted and popped the breaker. I have noticed this has happened when the unit is sitting in idle and is steaming from the water heaters.

I am going to buy the correct connector from Hobart to replace it this time.

*****
My question is how can I tell if there is something else wrong? Is the heater not turning off creating excessive steam or pulling extra power?? It seems to sit and steam and bubble the water around when its sitting there? Any other thoughts?
*****

 

[zalloy]

I've got some experience with electrical and electronics. To me, it sounds like something in the machine is drawing too much power, which in turn is causing the connection to melt and the breaker to pop. I would suggest going through the entire machine with a good volt-ohm meter, starting with the motors and heating elements. If the machine is doing this while idle, then something is drawing current when it shouldn't be. There may be an electrical short in the motor windings or the heating element, or possibly where there are any transformers converting power for a control board. Let me know what you find.

 

[combo52]

Hobart FFw Commerical DW

What voltage is your DW rated for and what voltage is it connected too, keep in mind that there is no 220 volt power in this country, normally we have 240 volts in homes and your machine may have been built for 208 voltage, so if it is connected to 240 volts now it will be drawing 25% more power, if this is the case you may be able to use the machine by disconnecting one heater.

 

[stevet]

Watts the story???

First the machine's electrical requirements...

Volts: 120/208-240 (4 wire) that is 2 hot wires and a current carrying NEUTRAL ( same size wire as the hots)and a ground wire. To protect you from electrocution.
Min circuit ampacity: 50
Maximum Protective Device: 50
75degree C. Copper wire size: 8 (75C=167F)

Now a few questions.. you said you used #6 wire.. did you cut any conductors to fit it in the terminal block? If you did, you have effectively lowered the wire size.
So the wires could have heated up some and loosened up under the screws.
The set screws will loosen up over time with the heating and cooling of the wires.
So when you get the new block from Hobart, make sure they are tight to begin with and then check them from time to time.

As far as the voltage of the heaters goes, there is only one set of heaters used and they are rated at 240 volts and if operated on 208, the output is less, but the amperage may be bit more.

What I have found on these older machines,and many did this.. they worked fine when new and as the elements aged, they drew more amperage and would trip the breakers that had never tripped before. Hard to believe but it happened alot.

You may want to check the amp draw when you get it fixed and see what it is with the sump and booster heater on.

And the big question I have is are you a stock holder in your power company? To just let that machine sit and keep the booster and sump heated up wastes so much energy if you are not actually washing the dishes.
Also, if you say that the water is boiling away, you may want to check the sump thermostat and adjust it to a lower temperature. Also, if you let it run long enough, especially if you don't latch the door, you can evaporate the sump water and cause it to dry out and trip the hi limit which will reset itself and keep going thru that cycle. So check everything out and fill us in as you go along.

 

[mwendig]

Ok here is an update.

I have "hard wired" the unit to the wiring using electrical "clamps" and wrapped them with heavy duty electrical tape that is more like a rubber and rated for high temp. After some trouble shooting I am fairly certain the main element in the tank is drawing too much power, perhaps simply due to age. I confirmed this by disconnecting the main element and it will sit and idle or run cycles etc without any issues. I pulled the element out and found it all piled up with mineral deposits. The question now is:

-anyone know where I can get a new element and what should I expect that to cost?

-Is there a good way to clean out the tank, and exactly how does it work it looks like there is a seperate area around the element with the rest of the tank above that area. Does that keep the deposits to just the area around the element?

-how do I adjust the thermostat and where is that located?

Thanks in advance and thanks for the thoughts before.

As far as how much power it draws we use it when we are cooking alot or have a fair number of dishes to do. After running it once it takes maybe 5 minutes to come to temp, we finish doing the dishes and empty it. Sometimes we will turn off the main power but not empty it and let it sit while we eat etc and then turn it on to run the last load through. I have not noticed any difference in my bill. Works great and the dishes are done and put away! Once our garden comes in it is going to be indespensible for canning!

 

[mwendig]

One further update I tested the element with my multimeter set to 200 ohms it reads around 10. From what I have read that means the element is OK. Anyone have any experience otherwise here? COuld the extra lime build up be what caused it to pull to many amps?

Thanks in advance.