KDTM604KPS

[appnut]

It occurred to me this evening a wish--when KitchenAid brings out new models or design, I want the higher end models to hhave inline heating rather than the heating element at the bottom. The top two models for GE Profile & Cafe lines have inline heating. The last dishwasher Frigilux bought from GE before he sold his house had inline heating. He really liked it. I think the KA design should devise a way to heat circulated air with the inline heater for indirect drying.

 

[combo52]

Dishwasher heating elements

It doesn’t make any difference whether the elements in the bottom of the tank or built into the pump assembly.

And when it’s built into the pump assembly, it’s very costly and difficult to replace it also often causes pump damage because the pump housing is plastic and it has a heating element in it when something goes wrong.

KitchenAid, along with every other major dishwasher sold in the US has had plenty of problems in the last decade. I’m glad they have not done this one additional troublesom some thing.

Not having the heating element in the bottom, eliminates the possibility of having a really effective drying system to that can get the job done more quickly.

John

 

[lakewebsterkid]

Doubtful

I highly doubt that would happen. Whirlpool wouldn't have the ability to have true drying cycles as John said. Though, I'm sure if they raised the final rinse to 150ºF and used the fan to assist in drying, the machine would dry better than most Bosch machines, not including Crystal Dry units.

 

[pinkpower4]

lakewebsterkid and combos52...

First of all, thank you, lakewebsterkid, for the very detailed review! I come back here occasionally to try to narrow down my choice between a KitchenAid 600 series, Bosch 800 series, and Maytag with either 8959 or 9959 in the model name.

My Frigidaire is over 10 years old. I replaced several parts, but I am not sure if the touch pad or something connected is going out on it. I have made the decision to replace when I can no longer get it to start at all. I have to press several times in just the right place for it to come on. The delay feature has been a workaround but I try to remember to run the hot water right before it comes on. Despite that it works well with its orbit arm. I use Finish detergent and rinse aid as well. It has the exposed heating element at the bottom and dries well.

If I read combos52 post right, the hidden heating element design is not necessarily a good thing? So is the Bosch heating element mixed in with the pump? I just know there is no exposed element so if something falls through the rack, it won't melt.

My Frigidaire with a rotating orbit arm works well. Even I can replace simple parts like either of the pumps. It has the heating element in the bottom. I have lost a few plastics along the way, so the Bosch feature appealed to me. However, not if this is the design Combos52 refers to. Hmmm. Glad I saw this. They just now got the Bosch back in stock in black where I live. However, being able to fix what I can is important to me. I actually liked the racks on the KitchenAid the best. It just gets bad reviews on touchpad issues. Maytag is also in the running, and comes in the black I would prefer.

 

[lakewebsterkid]

PinkPower4

No, you read Combo52's post backward. Lol. He prefers that the heating element is separate.
After owning the KA for around a month, I will not hesitate to recommend it. The Maytag versions should be great as well, though I know the 'chopper' has been a point of failure for those machines. If you have the financial means, I highly recommend buying the 604 because of the drying fan. Not sure if I could go back to a Bosch.
This machine replaced a rather mediocre Frigidaire. It cleaned halfway decent and dried surprisingly well for what it was and what I expected from it, but nothing compared to the KA.
Last weekend I cooked quite a bit on our Blackstone. Lots of tools, egg molds, and scraper were used. The load was pretty heavily soiled. We loaded the KA up, ran ProWash with no options, and a Cascade platinum pack, and the load came out spotless including all of the cooked on egg. I have never had a dishwasher that removes all of the cooked on egg. The egg molds were on the third rack in the cutlery tray too. The Bosch would not have been able to do this.
It is also nice to open the machine and have the dishes already dry compared to opening a Bosch and having the steam roll out and let the dishes flash dry for a few minutes prior to unloading.

 

[appnut]

the fan ran for the full 8 hours.

Does the fan run for the full 8 hours if hot dry isn't selected? I might select sani rinse (depending upon soil level) to get a good dry without having a heated dry if fan would run for 8 hours at the end of the cycle. I wonder if it does the same thing after the end of the express cycle.

 

[lakewebsterkid]

Fan

Yes, the fan runs constantly for the 8 hours after the cycle is complete, except on Express Wash. It does not run at all, AFAIK.
However, if heated dry is selected, the fan does click on with about 5 minutes or so left in the cycle, and proceeds to run for 8 hours.
Selecting Sanitize rinse might wait a few to allow the air to cool before turning the fan on. I am not sure though, as I have only ran Sanitize once and went to bed after. In theory, that should dry better than heated dry, though this machine really doesn't need help with drying. Very shocked to see that the 204 rated 2/5 on drying in CR testing. 

 

[lakewebsterkid]

Update

Sorry to keep bumping this thread, however a few updates. The machine is still performing flawlessly.

Pros:

 

-The 3rd rack noise has not occurred again. We love how we can place a minimum of 10 glasses up there to save space on the 2nd rack. Far more useful than the 3rd rack on the 204, IMHO. 

-No dishes have come out with even a speck on them. Last night a stainless steel 13x9 was used to bake potato chunks in the oven. The pan was placed on the bottom rack on the outside edge facing horizontally with only scrapping. Which is something I do not like doing because the PointVoyager couldn't do it, and the PowerClean required Pots & Pans or Antibacterial cycle for it to come clean in this position, and the Bosch could only do it angled or face down, so most the time I put them angled down at 45º. This morning the pan was spotless with only scraping and at 90º.  

-Cutlery basket is well laid out and allows for great cleaning of silverware. 

-Sudsing issues with Cascade actionpacs does not occur in this machine

 

Cons:

-No rinse aid light or reminder anywhere other than the visual port on the rinse aid cover. Though this machine supposedly can hold 3-4 months of rinse aid. 

-Adjustable tines at the front of the bottom rack are still annoying. 

-Our Roomba gets stuck under the dry vent at the base of the front of the machine as it cleans baseboard edges. Might be preventable if I raise the height of the machine. 

-The machine is so large that we frequently run out of plates, silverware, bowls, or pots & pans before the machine is completely full. 

 

Odd Notes:

-It is kinda cool to see the time adjust on ProWash. ProWash without heated dry defaults to 2:13, with High Temp wash & no heated dry it is 2:32. However, if a moderate-heavily soiled load is sensed with ProWash, after a few minutes into the prewash, the machine will adjust time up to the same as a ProWash with High Temp option added, though not sure if it automatically increases temperature to 140ºF for the mainwash. I wouldn't be shocked if it raises it to 130ºF and extends wash time. It seems to have 3 soil levels. Light at 2:13 and using a prewash, Moderate adjusting time up to 2:32 for the total cycle but drops mainwash detergent immediately after the prewash, then a heavy soil setting which senses in the 2nd fill also to either drain or drop the detergent. They have really figured the optimal cycle patterns out. 

-I have only witnessed the purge between rinse 1 and final rinse the one occurrence as described in the first post. Not sure if that was for water turbidity sensing purposes. 

-I have only witnessed the machine perform 2 prewashes on two occasions, but while running ProWash. Odd enough, Tough only performed 1, but was a lightly soiled load. Just wanted to wash dog bowls on that cycle and try it out. Can not note performance of prewashes and rinses on Normal as I do not use that cycle. 

 

 

[lakewebsterkid]

1 year update

For people who have followed this thread and dishwasher design, I wanted to give an update to you all.
After owning and using this machine for the last year, I can safely say that this is the best dishwasher I have ever used. I have yet to have anything come out of the machine with a spec of food on it besides a spatula on the third rack crammed in the corner with a flake baked on food still attached, and a fork with a grain of rice stuck between the fork tines (this one did sit for a while before being washed). I regularly will wash Pyrex and stainless baking dishes on the third rack with perfect results. Drying results usually are perfect, but occasionally will leave a little water on plastics. 95% of loads are done without heated dry. We have not had any recurrence of the 3rd rack noise since using Cascade Action Pacs. Wash times are not an issue. Ironically, ProWash, High Temp wash, and ProDry combo finishes in 2:38 and only dries for about 8 minutes. Likely created for CR testing. Quicker cycle time, shorter drying phase for energy and time benefits, etc. I would not be shocked if this reduces main wash temp to 130°F either. Though, great results.
The machine remains a great performer, is nearly silent, and holds lots of dishes. Though a few minor gripes remain. No low/out of rinse aid light. Adjustable lower rack is frustrating at times. Small spot of rust on the door near a seam (appears to be from water getting under a plastic film, though we do have a water container sitting above the dishwasher and our sink does cause water to leak off the counter frequently). [this post was last edited: 8/12/2024-08:54]

 

[gelaundry4ever]

heated dry

So how long does it take with heated dry added? If I had this dishwasher, that's what I'd typically use.

 

[egress]

I believe ours is around 3 hours usually w/prodry. it depends, it adjusts timing based on soil

 

[lakewebsterkid]

Heated dry time

It depends. Adding Heated Dry can add anywhere from 8 to 24 minutes in my experience. Extended pro dry is about an additional 20-30 minutes on top of that.