Hotpoint ultima WT761 - mainbearing replacement advice, please?

[azimuth]

will post further details as it progresses...

It might be a day or two before we find time to get on with it; but I'll post when we do.
My faithful old 9901 has developed a rumble recently & needs the same job doing; it's suspension/shocks need it too!
Amazing howe they've managed to get bearing life down from >25years to <25months!

I know our post-war economies were built on "disposable" goods; but it p!**es me right off; especially now we've reached the point where we know it's unsustainable; but we're still engineering "product life" into things, & doing incremental releases (so it's obsolete in 6months), and things are now designed to fail as near after warranty expires as is possible (based on average usage calculations). The "mass-production" argument is true to a point; but is often used as a cover story.
I want an ISE, when my old machine finally dies.

@3beltwesty - Interesting to see workings of your 1976 USA Westinghouse FL

 

[3beltwesty]

stainless bearings

With the 1976 FL washer, its two 6205 bearings (25 mm bore/52mm OD /15 width ) started to get noisy about 1999 and it was not until the summer of 2005 until the front bearing completely failed. ie the cage that holds the balls broke and then basket was loose. The seal failed and the bearing rusted and pieces off of one ball came off and somehow the cage got tweaked and a couple of its spot welds broke.

The odd things is that after the front bearing got noticeably noisy, it worked for about another 6 years.

The life of these bearings in a FL washer is probably dictated by the seals life, and not just the load and revolutions. Once the seal leaks a lot the bearing steel corrodes like mad. Typical ball bearing steel is 52100. This steel has a chrome content of 12 percent, not enough to be called stainless.

The 6205 ball bearing used in westinghouse FL washers for 50 years is a very common bearing. It is used in motors, snowmobiles, etc.

With my rebuild of my 1976 washer I bought stainless steel ball bearings ; they were about 32 bucks each ( back in 2006) , versus about 5 for regular ball bearing steel. Today the prices are actually lower. An ebay vendor sells the stainless 6205 for 14 bucks with shipping. One can buy TEN 6205 regular steel 6205's for less than 20 bucks.

I think, but might be wildly wrong that your washer uses a 6207 bearing. (35 bore /72 OD /17 width ). These are about 40 bucks with shipping here in the USA on ebay. A stainless bearing has a slightly less load rating than 52100 steel, but a way higher corrosion resistance. Thus if the seal leaks, the bearing degrades slower with a SS bearing. In the UK ebay one seller "bearingoptions" has stainless 6207 bearings for 12.99 + 3.99 post in GBP.

The real question is if one uses the better bearings, will it pay off. The machine might break for another reason too.

In stainless 6205's like my old washer uses, the prices have dropped since some folks like these for snowmobiles.

http://www.ibsco.com/chrome-steel-bearings.php

 

[azimuth]

Bearing options

Mmm,
Interesting. We'd seriously considered sourcing bearings from a local bearing supplier, rather than from an agent or washer-parts supplier, as price is usually very favorable. I need to measure them to confirm size; but internet is superb for cross referencing,& I'm sure I can find specs.
I noticed one site offering "new improved (seal)" non-manufacturer bearings at attractive price.
One of things that'll modify our decision will be state of spider...& how prices work out for kits as compared to separate purchase.
If it's so beggared it needs a halftub, then it'll probably be consigned to oblivion. ~ the cost of picking up something second-hand is broadly equivalent, & tempting to take chance. Hard call to make with newer machines - just about guaranteed to develop one problem or another before very long...& just luck as to whether you get a good 'un or a load of trouble!

 

[3beltwesty]

The SEAL is most important

As far as the washers "SEAL", you want to make sure you use the same seal made for your machine. (Seal that is by the front ball bearing ) .

Washing machine seals have a special type "lip design", with the angle and air/water sides defined. An industrial seal with the same Od and Bore dimensions may fit, but fail sooner if the seal is a different design.

Often replacement washer parts are bundled with the 2 bears and the seal, and to buy the seal only requires more hunting. Some models do not just sell the seal only, or they do but the parts houses are not savy enough to find it.

http://www.rlhudson.com/shaft%20seal%20book/sample-industry5.html

 

[azimuth]

Re: The SEAL is most important

@3beltwesty
Yes, had considered that seal might be tricky if going for generic bearings from a bearings supplier - run into those type of problems with other applications ~ powersteering seal, etc...
As far as trying to get the correct seal separately - we've had plenty of experience with spares depts being unable to identify their hand in front of their face; but they are by no means all like that! Probably find we can easily get a box of 100; but 1 might be more tricky!
I need to go chat to our local friendly appliance & spares shop, (link to Google view below), where they are extremely helpful and willing to give customers the benefit of their considerable experience -in fact, they go so far as to tell you if you could get whatever it is cheaper elsewhere! I Love his windowe displays, some of which are just a load of loose parts thrown in the display space!

And while the bearing on my 9901 might survive another few years, the suspension definitely needs attention, as it has managed to put a number of dents in the steel basket! It's been so good to me it deserves to be repaired before it destroys itself.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.google.com

 

[azimuth]

Different seals

Looking at various bearing kits, all listed for this machine - I notice that there seems to be significant variation in the design of the seal. Not all offer good pics; some (the genuine part I believe) show the seal as a bi-colored ring with a 'trough or cup' in it & a lip, others show a similar design, but with a tapered spring attached. Some of cheaper ones appear to be different again, a 'simple' seal, without cup or lip. Many of these suppliers won't know much about the bearing/seal kit they're offering, except whether it's a genuine part.
If it comes to buying bearings & seal, I think caution is needed; & better off paying a little more for genuine, our at least good copies.
Debate currently underway as to whether halftub is better solution than new bearings & spider.

 

[azimuth]

WT761 seal & online retailers

Looking around online retailers, we found that images of bearings & seal often do not match the listing.
We've found at least 3 variants for bearing kits with differing seals; only one of which looks anything like the original hotpoint part. Speaking to our favorite - & outrageously helpful - local spares place, & another local parts retailer, we we're informed that while bearing kit for many (30 mm) WMA series is generic & fits literally hundreds of machines, the WT761 seal is different/unusual & very specific...further, many online retailers apparently are prone to showing images of 'any old part', & not necessarily the listed item (espares was mentioned particularly).
With sites where I cannot easily speak to someone, & confirm the exact details and description of the part, it makes me a bit wary.
The WT761 seal, with steel flange & rotating inner, hikes the price of the bearing kit up by about a third!
And although I've seen one, or maybe 2 places advertising "genuine hotpoint replacement parts", neither of my local, specialist spares & repairs places supply genuine hotpoint parts. One was 'GFK Bearings'.
I'm becoming very suspicious that some of the "really good deals" I've found online are probably too good to be true, and are not the one I require, especially when the pics are wrong...
Slow progress (& no ADSL for couple wreaks!)
Debate still ongoing between machine owner & engineer as to whether:-
1) "just bearing & seal kit"
2) "same as 1 but with new spider/shaft"
3) "half tub"
4) "same as 3 with new spider/shaft"

While old spider/shaft doesn't look bad, the most reliable repair is, of course, option4, but looking at over £110 in parts, before delivery!
Bearing & seal kit about £30 locally, & maybe a fiver cheaper online, inc postage (from source where we can confirm it's the right seal).
Tough call, it'd be a real pain to mend it on the cheap, only to fail early; but a lot to spend for peace-of-mind solution 4.
Then there's labor, any option that replaces spider will add a bit more, as screws nicely corroded into the alloy...
Decisions, decisions...
All the best.

 

[hotpoint95622]

hotpoint 95622

I would go with the new bearing, seal and spider kit, from Hotpoint, some times there are too many options available and it gets frustrating especially on the internet.
One thing is for sure, it’s going to be hard work putting it all back together.

Good luck.