How come the lids opened sideways on Whirlpool-built Kenmore washers of years past?

[superocd]

I've always wondered why every Kenmore washer from about the 60s to the early 2000s had side-opening lids.

I know Sears was instrumental to Whirlpool's market share and success (though probably not so much anymore) but why did Whirlpool agree to tool their washer plants to stamp out Kenmore-exclusive lids and tops?

I actually like it. It stands out in a way, and that's probably the reason why I believed Sears/Kenmore made their own stuff when I was a young kid (that is, until I saw a Triple Action agitator on a Whirlpool, and matching lint screens on the dryer, then it all made sense).

Every other washer opened from the front unless it was an older Norge, Speed Queen, and maybe one other brand I may be forgetting about.

Is there a special reason for this design?

 

[brucelucenta]

Probably to further make the distinction between Whirlpool and Kenmore. Actually MOST washers from the 60's and 70's had lids that opened to the side. Only ones who didn't were Whirlpool, Maytag and GE of the major brands anyway. I think Blackstone opened to the back also. The rest opened to the side. It wasn't until after the 70's and 80's that washers started opening to the back again like most had in the beginning. Westinghouse even had a purpose for opening to the side, a weight to save lid that would weigh the clothes for adjusting your load level according to the weight of the clothes. A stupid device, since bulk is really what has to do with the water level anyway.

 

[vacerator]

Sears used to

design the console, and likely chose the side opening lid because it allows you to still see the console while loading.
I would think as bulk increase in a load of laundry, so would weight. Even a light fiberfill comforter gets heavier once it absorbs water.
Also, say you accidentally add too much detergent for a small load. You could adjust the water level while the lid was open until the suds were diluted enough, making rinsing more thorough.
Once the fabric or garments are under water or saturated, it's enough water, so I don't know if weighing a dry load helped much.

 

[wigwag]

Hotpoint scrubber on lid

I remember Hotpoint had a clothes scrubber on the lid which opened to the side.

 

[circlew]

During the time period of the side-opening Kenmore lids, most of Whirlpool Corp.'s production was for Sears. In fact, Sears held controlling interest in Whirlpool for many years. Well more washers & dryers were sold under the Kenmore label than the Whirlpool brand.

 

[alr2903]

Back in the day the WP set with the Hamper door dryer was the set to buy if you anticipated a move in the future.    No matter,  left or right no doors or lids in the way.   Reversible side swing  dryer doors we have now where not common if available at all.  People in homes with hallway closet laundries behind louvered doors have to shop carefully.  Sometimes with bifold closet doors it can be difficult to get the dryer door open.   I think it is better now with the reversible door swing on many models.

 

[toploadloyalist]

WP/KM lack of spin-drain

One other question I have regarding classic Kenmores and Whirlpools is why they weren't manufactured to spin-drain. Putting them in spin with water in the tub would hurt the motors.

 

[brucelucenta]

Whirlpool/Kenmore always had a neutral drain before spinning the clothes out when they were belt drive. This helped to lower the clothes in the basket, thus better preventing clothing from spinning over the top to the outer tub and did not create as much tension on the tub by having the clothes at the bottom of the tub too. Don't know if that was the reasoning for it, but that does make sense to me. The only time I remember a few having a spin/drain was the beginning "design 2000" machines and they soon changed that to a neutral drain before starting the spin also. As far as the way the lid opened to the side, the first Kenmore machines opened to the back. I have even seen some "frog eye" machines that had a larger lid than usual and opened toward the back. The side opening lid is something that came about in the early to mid 50's.

 

[DADoES]

 
<blockquote>Putting them in spin with water in the tub would hurt the motors.</blockquote> The spin clutch slips in priority over the motor.

 

[panthera]

I believe

the neutral drain made several major concerns about spinning clothes out manageable.
First, the lower the center of gravity, the easier to balance.
Second, the lighter the load, the less strain on components.
Third, as Bruce mentions in this thread, less chance of socks flying out and blocking things.
Fourth, in the days of soap, sudslock was a real thing.

To all of which I say: I prefer spin-drains. It just doesn't make sense to me to sieve the dirt back through the clothes.

http://i say

 

[bajaespuma]

Makes sense

I have a Whirlpool/Kenmore manual somewhere from the early '60's that states, definitively, that their neutral drain before the spin protects the motor and transmission from the wear and tear of moving all the weight of laundry + water from 0 to 500 rpm.  I'll try to find it. I think the question of neutral vs. spin drain is an argument for the ages; one can easily see the pros and cons of both. I think they're both cool.

 

I'll never forget the day, when I was 5 years old, I first saw a spin-drain happen after being used to the neutral drain. I thought the washing machine was going to spin out of control and tear itself out of the bathroom.

 

It's very cool to lift the top off of a Filter-Flo and watch the perforated washbasket spin-drain inside the huge pool of water that fills the outer tub. Good thing we didn't have to pay that much for water during those early years of the mid-century.

 

[yogitunes]

water, suds, detergent, grime....unfortunately will filter through the clothing, whether it spin drains through, or is lowered through clothing during a neutral drain...

even something like a Filterflo/Maytag at the start of spin, will over flow the wash water back onto the clothing until all water is pumped out......

I do think the spin drain offering water splashing all over cleans the machine better versus a neutral drain that will leave a soap scum build up around the outter tub area, just something noticed a lot on something like a Direct drive machine...but that is part blame from a fill flume that is above the splash guard, and not under it, helping to rinse down the tub during sprays....

pros and cons can argue which is better in any choice....both are interesting to watch in action...

I guess the best option is a good detergent that will hold the dirt in suspension until its drained away....and not allow it to redeposit on the clothing...

but in retrospect, even something like a Calypso with the waterfall is flowing wash water over the clothing in its cleaning process, filter through if you will....the upside is it is a concentrated lather penetrating fibers and stains....

 

[mrb627]

Additionally

There is an added load by having a self cleaning filter in the drain circuit. A filter that isn't 100% clear can cause the neutral drain to run long. Further wear and tear on the machine if it was attempting to spin and drain through a restricted filter.

Malcolm

 

[vacerator]

Sears had controlling interest in Whirlpool?

When? Whirlpool was under RCA until it spun off as the Whirlpool corporation with it's own IPO stock.

 

[toploadloyalist]

Hotpoint USA from the pre-GE era also had sideway opening lids. When did GE start owning them?

 

[delaneymeegan]

JCPenny washers in the 70s

 

Had a unique shaped side swing lid (curved at back and front).

 

And of course, we can't forget Frigidaire in the 60s and 70s with a rectangular shaped door.

 

I like the sideswing lids.  It makes it unique.  I think that's why retro Kenmores are my favs.  

 

 

[vacerator]

Hotpoint USA

has been a GE brand since at least the 1930's.

 

[ken]

Hotpoint invented the Calrod burner design. GE acquired Hotpoint in 1918? to gain the patent for it.

Key Dates:

1878: Thomas Edison establishes the Edison Electric Light Company.

1889: Edison has, by this date, consolidated all of his companies under the name of the Edison General Electric Company.

1892: Edison's company merges with the Thomson-Houston Electric Company to form General Electric Company (GE); company's stock begins trading on the New York Stock Exchange.

1894: Edison sells all his shares in the company, remaining a consultant to GE.

1900: GE establishes the first industrial laboratory in the United States.

1903: Stanley Electric Manufacturing Company of Pittsfield, Massachusetts, a manufacturer of transformers, is acquired.

1906: The first GE major appliance, an electric range, is introduced.

1918: GE merges with Pacific Electric Heating Company, maker of the Hotpoint iron, and Hughes Electric Heating Company, maker of an electric range; company forms Edison Electric Appliance Company to sell products under the GE and Hotpoint brands.

1919: GE, AT&T, and Westinghouse form the Radio Corporation of America (RCA) to develop radio technology.

1924: GE exits from the utilities business following government antitrust action.

1930: Company sells its holdings in RCA because of antitrust considerations.

1938: GE introduces the fluorescent lamp.

1943: General Electric Capital Corporation is established.

1949: Under antitrust pressure, the company is forced to release its light bulb patents to other companies.

1955: The U.S. Navy launches the submarine Seawolf, which is powered by a GE nuclear reactor.

1957: GE receives a license from the Atomic Energy Commission to operate a nuclear power plant; an enormous appliance manufacturing site, Appliance Park, in Louisville, Kentucky, is completed.

1961: The company pleads guilty to price fixing on electrical equipment and is fined nearly half a million dollars.

1976: GE spends $2.2 billion to acquire Utah International, a major coal, copper, uranium, and iron miner and a producer of natural gas and oil.

1981: John F. (Jack) Welch, Jr., becomes chairman and CEO.

1986: Company acquires RCA, which includes the National Broadcasting Company (NBC), for $6.4 billion; Employers Reinsurance is also acquired for $1.1 billion, as well as an 80 percent stake in Kidder Peabody.

1987: GE sells its own and RCA's television manufacturing businesses to the French company Thomson in exchange for Thomson's medical diagnostics business.

1994: Company liquidates Kidder Peabody.

1998: Revenues surpass $100 billion.

2000: GE announces a $45 billion deal to take over Honeywell International Inc.

2001: Honeywell deal is blocked by European Commission; Welch retires and is succeeded by Jeffrey R. Immelt; Heller Financial Inc., a global commercial finance company, is acquired for $5.3 billion.

2002: NBC acquires Telemundo Communications Group Inc.

2004: British health sciences firm Amersham plc is acquired for $9.5 billion; in $14 billion deal, GE buys Vivendi Universal Entertainment, which is combined with NBC to form NBC Universal.

Also, here's an interesting article I found concerning a 1930s appliance show. Has a lot of interesting info and pics on different brands.

_A Visit to a 1930s Appliance Show_

 

[bajaespuma]

It did make them distinct from other brands

If I'm repeating information, sorry.

 

I never liked the fact that the Kenmore lids didn't lie flat so one could use them as a staging area, place for stuff, scale, whatever. It seems, however, that because Kenmores and Whirlpools were made in the same factories, Whirlpool was using the same hinges and hardware used on their back-opening lids, and this hardware wasn't a conventional hinge and doesn't permit the bottom of the lid to lie flat on the top. It's still a bit of a wonder why they chose to do this( I can hear a Sears executive saying something like, "Well, all the back hinged lids don't lie flat, so why should ours?" I'm sure they could have made this work if they had wanted to.

 

Some Kenmores, including one I happen to own, offered the user to change what side the lids opened from though.

 

I think Combo52 will be the person who can get us to the meat of it.