How did this Lady Kenmore work?

[bajaespuma]

From all the pictures and ads I've seen on this machine, it looks like the user made cycle selections by pushing the large keys, setting the water level and then what? I'm led to believe from all the literature, that the dial somehow mechanically turns itself to the correct setting (in the fashion of the Maytag A906, but here, we get to watch the dial move)and then the user pulls out the knob, as usual, to start the whole kit and kaboodle on its merry way?

 

Or is it all window dressing? Is the real control the dial and are all those keys just appliance placebos?

 

[bajaespuma]

For example, if you want a "Pre-Wash" it would seem that the user has to push the "Pre-Wash" key and then select a main cycle key and then what? Does the machine automatically advance the dial then to the correct setting or does the user simply do what you'd do on a conventional machine and manually move the dial to the "Pre-Wash" setting and then is the point of the Supreme TOL is that you get to push pointless buttons as well?

 

I'm asking because on an earlier TOL, with no keys, everything seems to happen, no surprise, on the dial.

 

And please, don't misunderstand me, I'm not picking on Kenmore here, I've had the same question about GE "Clothes Conditioners" where for many years the TOL's had NO buttons, everything was set on one dial, and then, in one year's model change, the TOL's were given a whole row of buttons, choosing options that had been, on earlier models, set on that one dial.

 

On this beautiful, slightly earlier model, the programmed cycles are labeled on the panel, with a few toggles for water level, cold water and extra rinse, but, unless I'm mistaken, all those fancy cycles are selected by the user turning the control dial to the corresponding letter and letting 'er rip.

 

[bajaespuma]

GE TOL dryer 1961 (no safety start button either! You pulled out the dial):

 

[bajaespuma]

GE TOL dryer, the very next year (same dial, same settings, same control panel {for the most part}) now, buttons!).

 

And yes, now the Air Freshener control has degenerated to pushing the bare butt-end of the freshener cylinder into the hole in the control panel where it got to gunk up a lot more of the works and simply got sucked into the dryer airstream. What a disappointment:

 

[kakidd]

My grandmother had one of these LK's a few years older than this one and if I remember correctly,you selected a cycle button, pulled the timer dial out and turned it and it stopped at the appropriate place for the cycle button selected. You then pushed the dial in to start the cycle.

 

[moparguy]

That's my understanding... you could "manually" set the functions (or override the functions set by the pushbutton selection) by just using the dial. But if you didn't want to think on minutes/temps, you just push the automatic button, and turn the dial which will then stop and set itself to run the desired minutes/temps for the selected fabric cycles.

Love the advertisement... the beautiful avacado could have been a part of the avacado thread!

 

[moparguy]

... or, as the user guide says...

"Basic Steps to follow for a wash load"

Step 1 was to set the vari-flex agitator, add detergent and bleach, and load clothes.
Step 2 Set water level selector
Step 3 Push cycle button for type of fabric to be washed
Step 4 Set wash time control (pull control out; turn control to the right until it stops; push control in)

You could change the cycle at any time by pushing the cancel button on the bottom right and pushing the new cycle button or turning the dial to the desired position.

 

[DADoES]

 
Reference this picture posted recently in another thread.

This is a mechanical control system requiring user participation to set the timer ... no automatic, rapid-advance timer motor is involved.

Ten of the buttons (the first five from the left on each row) are connected to a spring-loaded pin mechanism.  The actuator arms can be seen coming across to the right side, and the ten pins in the triangular mechanism.

The appropriate pin is activated when a cycle button is selected.  The user pulls out the timer dial, which presses the selected control pin against the metal disk.  Turn the timer and the activated pin drops into the appropriate hole in the disk to lock the timer at the correct starting position for the selected cycle.  Press the timer to On, which moves the metal disk away from contact with the pin so the timer isn't locked and can advance through the cycle ... and away it goes.

Heavy Duty, Custom Care, and Optional Second Rinse are cycle modifiers and do not have a control pin.

Selective Dialing releases all the cycle buttons, and thus also releases all the pins so the timer can be turned freely to any position.

 

[tomturbomatic]

This was a classic lock stop timer. The water temperatures for wash are programmed into the start positions of the wash cycle. The rinse temps are probably a part of whichever cycle you select as are the speeds. It looks all high techy for the time, but really, it's just mechanics--neat mechanics--but mechanics, still. And, most importantly for Lady Kenmores in particular, it is dazzling and looks like a whole lotta stuff on the control panel!

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Lock-stop timers, rapid advance Kenmores, etc.

These lock-stop Kenmore mechanicals are indeed VERY mechanical, just as Tom said. The control panel in my 72 Lady K, when I had it off the machine for cleaning and a bit of work, was so heavy that I would estimate that if you dropped it, it would hurt your foot (seriously). Most Kenmore panels from that point forward would probably be hurt by your foot in the same scenario.

This lock-stop arrangement was used in a number of Lady Ks - 1962 thru 1974, as well as a number of 800 models and even a 1961 70 series.

As to rapid advance Kenmores, there were only a few that I am aware of and I've only seen one many years ago. The 1961 Lady Kenmore is a RA, but I don't think, from what I've read, than anyone has seen one? It was in the Fall/Winter Catalog 1961. There was a RA or two before that too in the high end but I think that was it. The 1962 LK/800 and all future Ladies Kenmore were lock-stop timer models until 1976 when even that feature was done away with for manufacturing complexity reasons.

Gordon

 

[revvinkevin]

 

 

I came across this 1959 Lady Kenmore washer in San Diego about 3 years ago, it has the rapid advance timer.   I had a chance to play with it a little before it was sold and shipped to Maryland, if I remember correctly Bygted bought it.

 

Anyway, here is a very short video starting the washer where you can hear the timer advancing.

 

Kevin

 

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[bajaespuma]

Thanks to all of you; I get it. A very elegantly engineered

DADoes, that was a very helpful photo and explanation.

 

Kevin, I love that machine; now I want one of those. Love your new profile picture: best imitation of Kurt Cobain by a retriever ever!

 

[bajaespuma]

One potentially annoying follow-up question:

If one selected "Pre-Wash" and "Enzyme Soak" and "Optional 2nd Rinse" and combined them with the "Delicates" cycle, how would that work? Does the dial go from the pre-wash and enzyme soak and advance around to the Delicate cycle on the other side of the dial and then advance to the "2nd Rinse" portion  of the dial?Or are you required to do it manually?

 

Or would it not let you make that kind of selection with the "Delicate" cycle? My LG won't, but it is all controlled digitally/electronically.

 

[cycla-fabric]

You could have a soak and prewash but the machine would stop at the end of prewash and you would have to change the cycle to Delicate, let that run through the Delicate cycle, then manually advance the timer to 2nd rinse. The timer dial you show is the normal cycle, with the modifiers of soak, prewash, normal cycle wash and 2nd rinse. The timer dial will not advance all around to the other parts of the dial on its own.

Doug

 

[DADoES]

 
Automatic progression can occur only per the sequence arrangement on the timer.

Second Rinse only follows the Normal cycle, and buttons that trigger/lock on it. An extra rinse can be garnered manually with the Selective Dialing button and setting the timer to the appropriate position in the desired cycle.

Likewise, Enzyme Soak and Prewash function only in connection with Normal.

Enzyme Soak includes Prewash by default.

Prewash "locks" the timer at that point, skipping the Soak section, and proceeding on through Normal.

Any of the 10 buttons that have trigger points are mutually exclusive ... pressing any one releases the other(s), so Enzyme Soak or Prewash can't be selected with any other cycle ... they are cycles unto themselves.

To run a soak or prewash with Delicate or Wasn-n-Wear/Perm Press, one could start the process on the appropriate setting and monitor the machine's operation, manually reselect the other cycle when the Soak and/or Prewash periods are done, before Normal gets going.

Or, use the Custom Care button to get Ex-Low agitation speed on Normal (with Soak/Prewash) for running a delicate load.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Don't be sad, Ken,

You get an RC cola in the wash'n wear cycle; it says so right there on the dial.

The height of the Enzyme Soak Cycle was what they designed in the last combo. Using the dry cycle's newly available Wrinkle Guard, which gave periodic tumbling after the clothes were dry to prevent DEEP set wrinkles, they incorporated an enzyme soak option into the combo's Super Wash cycle. This let the load, after the fill, partial drain & tumble to get the enzyme product in solution, go into an extended soak. The machine stopped and let the load actually soak with periodic tumbling until the timer advanced into the wash portion of the cycle. Unfortunately, there was no water heating and although the fills were hot, you were stuck with what was left in the pipes after 30 minutes for topping off the water for the full wash level. Given the viciousness with which the enzyme products attacked human flesh, it would have been nice to have some heat to deactivate them since I would not trust the combo's rinsing and spinning to thoroughly flush the super phosphated enzyme products from the fabrics in the load. Phosphates were the hidden secret ingredient in enzyme pre soak products. While there were enzymes, part of the stain and dirt removal success of these products was the huge amount of STPP in them. Given the primitive state of enzymes available for laundry purposes in the late 60s & early 70s, when areas with phosphate bans demanded action on removal of phosphates from these enzyme products, their effectiveness dropped and they were soon withdrawn from the market. While my late 60s LK Combo has the cycle labeled Enzyme Super Wash, it is just the extra 4 minutes of super wash other combos had, jazzed up to be more appealing to consumers. The phosphate content in enzyme soak products and the resulting ban on phosphates in them was what doomed KitchenAid's hopes for a dishwasher enzyme soak product for the soak cycle they introduced in their machines.

From the use & care book with mom's 58 LK, there are reasons why Delicate fabrics would not need the Enzyme Soak Cycle as much as the normal cycle for cottons since the synthetic fabrics usually associated with the Delicate cycle were the type that shed dirt quickly because they were not as absorbant as natural fibers. If milady's delicate panties were heavily soiled, they needed a good hot water wash with the addition of a non-chlorine bleach, not enzyme soaking for what Madeline Kahn called pooh-pooh undies in Young Frankenstein.

 

[appnut]

I could be completely wrong but ..

It seems to me that at some point very late in the LK Keyboard control panels that the two major cycles--PP & Normal, the whitesa & color fabric buttons all started at the maximum point on the wash (12 & 14 minutes respectively) so that the automatic detergent dispenser could be utilized.  What I'm trying to say is that those 4 major buttons simply selected the wash water temperature (hot or warm) and the rest of the cycle automatically included the proper agitation and spin speeds as well as rinse (warm on normal and cold on PP).  This aslso allowed a slight variation for the enzyme soak or pre wash cycles.  As the dial progressed into the normal cycle after enzyume or prewash, the Whjites button provided a hot wash and the color button provided a warm wash.  As I"m still kind of beating around the bush, I think the approach was the user selected the enzyme soak cycle.  Started the machine and hten pushed the respective cottons fabric button.  If this was never the case then all this LK stuff the pre wash or enzyme soak advancing into the normal wash was a bunch of hogwash.  Thus rendering our 800 far superior f0r flexibility.  Because I could be quite messy at times, this was the progress oin my laundry with the 800 most times.  Enzyme soak using Axion.  I selected the option that was soak only vs. soak & wash.  then at the end of the enzyme/prewash cycle and spinning stopped.  I'd manuall move the timer to the PP cycle and start it.  I'd already loaded all needed dispensers with product when I began the initial load and just had to return to the mahcine to start the PP cycle.  Or after an enzyme soak that rogressed into normal, not ALL loads that had been soaked like that still neededed a hot water wash that followed to finish the cleaning process.  Sometimes ya wanted warm water wash.  All very flexible withg our Kenmore 800 as far as I"m concerned.  Incidentally Ken the Enzyme Soak and Prewash agitation periods were all gentle speeds.  The 2 minute spin at the end of these cycles was normal speed. 

 

[mattl]

Having had the '73 for many years, it died in '95 before this forum made me aware, I recall as was stated earlier using soak precluded certain cycles.  The panel would let you soak and then go into a regular wash, or you could just soak. 

 

I still have the user manuals around in a drawer somewhere. I can dig them out if anyone would like...

 

[bajaespuma]

Dig, by all means, dig

I myself would very much like!