How did you spend your Black Friday?

[launderess]

Not to hijack a thread, *LOL*.

Think one problem many of these "sub-prime" new homeowners have is the shock of what really goes into owning a home. There is a reason a house is called a "money pit" and if one is not at all handy, or careful owning a home can easily kick one in the hind-quarters versus renting.

Right now many are bemoaning heating costs, especially those who either bought huge homes, or those who bought older or badly insulated houses. Read about a family in RI, or was it Maine? Either way couple bought an old barn of a farm house to live in and the place has next to no insulation. They are getting killed in heating costs, and may have to pack up and move. Until then it is sweaters all around, and lots of cutting back.

Homeownership implies one will do things to keep one's property up so it will sell at a good price later on. If you don't have the time and skill, nor the funds, letting your property go will surely decrease your ROI, and probably tick off your neighbors as well.

Suzie Orman:

Listen to some of her stuff, tune the rest out. She is right about if people can't make ends meet now when they are young, what are they going to do at 60 or above? IMHO far to many people are living beyond their means, and like Scarlett O'Hara, not thinking about it until tomorrow.

Sub-Prime Mess

Yea, probably is a good time for someone with ready cash and rock hard stomach/nerves to pick over carcasses and find deals. Florida amoung other areas is attracting "vultures" looking to cash in on over extended property investors/owners.
Problem is the cash. Banks aren't giving it away anymore, so if you are looking to buy, better have 700+ credit score AND a healthy deposit. Don't even think about jumbo loans.

L.

 

[launderess]

20% Down

On the average house ($250,000) is about 50,000. That is a big nut for the average family these days to put away/come up with. Then again if people are careful and start saving early, it is possible. Probably will need some help from the parents though. You can do an FHA, Vetrans and a few other federal programs with about 5% down, but those loans can be hard to find.

 

[sudsmaster]

Uninsulated homes

Losing a home to underinsulation and heating costs? Not a good excuse, IMHO.

Weatherproofing and insulating a home is not difficult and well within the range of most new homeowners. It only takes a caulking gun and some other simple materials to seal off air leaks. A lot of people wind up spending thousands replacing their home's windows while their attics remain uninsulated or underinsulated. Stupid.

I sealed off air leaks and insulated my attic myself - and cut my winter gas bill in half. Granted, there were some pretty serious air leaks - the kitchen cooktop peninsula range hood had no damper whatsoever - basically an open hole in the ceiling for warm air to escape. What made it worse is that the kitchen and one of the original bedrooms had been remodeled into an open plan kitchen/laundry nook/family room. So heat could flow from most of the home up that flue.

There was zero insulation in the attic. After sealing off numerous other air leaks, I added about R40 worth of Miraflex no-itch fiberglass batts. I also added soffit venting to help prevent moisture from condensing in the resulting colder attic. Some of the forced air ducting in the vented crawl space had split and was leaking heated air before it ever got the chance to enter the living areas. I fixed that with mastic and fiberglas tape, and then added 1 inch of foil backed insulation around every duct. Then I added insulation (R13) under the flooring. The result was a much less drafty much more comfortable living space, with gas consumption cut in half. And the original aluminum frame single pane windows are still in place. I have no plans to replace them - they are reasonably air-tight and represent a very minor source of heat loss.

A side benefit is that in the summer, the home stays much cooler during heat waves. The attic insulation blocks heat radiated from the roof from entering the living space, and the soffit vents help to keep the attic temps lower to begin with.

 

[sudsmaster]

On the average house ($250,000) is about 50,000.

That's just a little higher than what I paid in 1997 - California property values have always been higher than average, tho. Like I say, some good returns on high tech stocks in the late 90's helped a lot. I could have come up with 10% down without them, though, from years of saving.

One thing I will say: owning a home - esp. one that needs work, and which ones don't? - is a major responsibility. When I was renting I could just curse the landlady privately and live with peeling paint, leaky roof, bad wiring, inadequate insulation, etc. These were all her problems (and she didn't tend to them very well either). Now, I have only myself to blame for any lack of home maintenance. Add to that a lot more land around the home - and many hours spent maintaining/improving/gardening it, and this home has resulted in much less time for other activities. But it's a tradeoff I'm still willing to make, because I have the freedom to do much more. It is perhaps not for everyone, but I had a lot of pent-up home ownership urges and really loved the fixing' up and gardening - at least for the first 10 years. Now the novelty has worn off but I'm still glad I got this place when I did. I am trying however to scale back on certain time-consuming things. I've removed some trees/plantings I put in early on, because they took too much time to care for or keep under control. Live and learn.

Come to think of it, time to mow the lawn.

 

[petek]

It's interesting the fundamental way of thinking on home ownership between Canada and the USA. Of course tax laws have something to do with it because in Canada you cannot write off your mortgage payments it puts a heavy incentive to pay off your mortage as quickly as possible and get rid of it whereas in the US it seems totally the opposite where many people never actually "own" their house with long term mortages etc. A 30 year mortage here is almost unheard of, 25 years is dicey, most people want it paid in 15 to 20 years. Banks and mortage companies here it seems were always more scrutinizing as well, anything less than 20% I think required mandatory mortgage insurance.

While we could never write off our mortage payments though, there has never been any capital gains tax when it came time to sell.

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, currently at least, in the USA, the first $250,000 of profit from the sale of a home is tax free. For a married couple filing jointly, that increases to $500,000. This is a very popular tax break and I doubt that even if the Dems win back Congress and the White House they will do away with it.

The mortgage interest deduction is a definite incentive to stretch out the mortgage. I went the other way, though, and went from a 30 year to a series of refi's at 15 years. Due to amortization, the interest part of the payments each year have dropped quite a bit, but the property taxes are also deductible so that helps keep me in the itemized bracket. By the time I retire I'll probably be back on the standard "f you" deduction, lol.

 

[alexb1186]

back on topic

1. Little Brown Jug Estate sale at 7:30. Too much tchotchke
2. Go to the President Casino and lose $13 on the Wheel of Fortune Penny Super Slots and 1¢ Hundred Hand video poker
3. AuBon Estate sale at 10. For sale is a teal Dial-A-Matic with tools and a bojack cord for $15. Have that model so pass.
4. Joan and David Estate sale at 1. I arrive 2 hours early at 11 and read some of the old Good Housekeepings and Better Homes and Gardens I got at the Arnold Food Pantry thrift store. Ironically, the woman on the address label lived three doors down from this sale. Nothing interesting so it's off to work.
5. Work from 1:15-9 doing excess cash pickups and balancing bags.

The last time I went to a Black Friday "doorbuster" was in 2000 at Circuit City was when they had Apex DVD players for $89 (very cheap at the time.) And amazingly 7 years later it still works!

 

[sudsmaster]

I just got my credit card statement today, so I passed on going to Circuit City to pick up a $200 20 inch LCD HDTV, as well as to Sears to look at their table saws. Spent more than enough on power tools and related shop equipment (bead blaster) in the past month. Plus this new notebook computer I'm now typing on (it plays youtube videos just fine, by the way).

I can live a while longer yet with tube NTSC TV, and a nine inch antique table saw ;-).

 

[paulg]

Me: No shopping per se

On Friday in da Sout Side of Chicago:
A) Went to estate sales. Bought fun mint unused West Bend electric Bean Pot. About 1952. Also bought Libby party glassware with circus motif. Matches my other stuff.
B) Cleaned up house after Thanksgiving. Had 22 people over. House still isn't completely clean yet.
C) Did lots of dishes and laundry. Stain treated and washed all the linen tablecloths and napkins we used. Threw them in da Speed Queen with an extra dose of vintage PUNCH detergent. They came out remarkably clean.

ABOUT THE BEAN POT:
I have somewhere this 1957 "Live Better Electrically" ad which rates your level of drudgery based upon the electric appliances you own. Of course, the more electric appliances you own, the closer you get to cutting the apron strings.One appliance recommended to reduce your drudgery was the "Bean pot". A BEAN POT??? Who in GOD's green earth needs a BEAN POT to be freed of the apron strings?
At any rate - there it was.. Glowing like a beacon in the corner of dead Edna's basement. I bought it realizing that I could finally make THAT FINAL CHECK MARK that releases me of the apron strings that tied me to kitchen drudgery. I DO own an ELECTRONIC OVEN - did that release me from my apron strings? Noooo - it is the BEAN POT. We'll see.

 

[selectomatic]

Well Crud!

Here I thought I lived as well Electrically as I possibly could (if you ignore the insane power bills!)

Now you go and ruin my worldview by telling me that my bean pot is insufficiently Electric. Pooh.

Actually I don't eat beans, and when we do make beans we heat them up using the electric range, and then serve them in our (non-electric) bean pot. I wonder whether that counts?

Do you think I get extra credit on the checklist for my Norelco Automatic Electric Corkscrew?

-kevin

 

[polkanut]

I think that would qualify.

 

[sudsmaster]

I get by just fine without a bean pot. I prepare my beans the old fashioned way - overnight soaking with an innoculation of a little bean soak water from the previous batch (kept refrigerated. Then I drain (saving a bit for the next batch), add some non-salty spices like bay leaf, oregano, marjoram, sage, rosemary (salt toughens beans), extra virgin olive oil, and simmer for 30 minutes to an hour. For the last 15 minutes or so, I throw in whatever seems good - hot peppers, a couple cans of sliced mushrooms, diced summer squash, shallots or garlic, and onions. Delicious over rice or in a burrito, or as a side for a Mexican omelet. Last in goes the salt to taste.

Haven't make beans like that for a while... probably should ...

 

[paulg]

Special dispensation...

Your electric corkscrew gives you special dispensation toward living better electrically - with credit to spare.
Electric corkscrews are well known luxury items and they raise one's standard of living measurably.
One must eat beans. Therefore my mere bean pot is more of a necessity rather than luxury.
Go ahead and cut the apron strings! You're free from drudgery!

 

[toggleswitch]

It's great to be the cool uncle who gives cash-equiavale

Nope no purchases. Avoid all shopping like the plague.
Hate the commercialism of Christmas.

I'd rather give a gift randomly when I feel like it and can rather than when "I am supposed to".

I get my sisters to buy my gifts for their kids and write a few checks. DONE. This is fairer than it seems since I used to get VERY specific demands from them as to what to buy.

The kids prefer TARGET gift-cards, and this works for me when necessary!

Well, as Samantha has stated it is a VERY annoying time of the year! And this from a person (me)whose holiday it is!

I'm already up to my eyeballs in christmas carols! And we haven't really even begun yet!

 

[sudsmaster]

Never heard of an electric corkscrew. I agree, it's a permanent indulgence.

Not that I don't love my Rabbit corkscrew - takes out the cork and then ejects it from the screw, in three easy motions. Maybe four. Anyway, it's the best manual corkscrew I've ever tried.