How to lubricate washing machine motor carbon brushes

[norgechef]

When my washer starts and stops it makes a squeaking metallic noise and seems to be a little loud while running and i think it may need lubricating. How would i lubricate it and what lubricant would i use? I can see carbon dust coating the motor pulley so I know this must be a problem with the carbon brushes. I could just replace the motor but that would be $80 and id rather just fix whatever is wrong.

 

[tolivac]

Sounds like the brushes in your motor-two possible things-dirty communtator and the brushes need to be "seated"This is done by getting a seating-cleaning stone from a motor shop.While the motor is running gently touch the stone to the communtator on both sides of both brushes.Are the brushes new or old-if old-replace them and seat them as above.This did well for me when I fixed motors in power tools and vacuum cleaners.Just watch for moving parts and don't get shocked.The seating stones are non-conductive.Usually white or grey in color.

 

[norgechef]

I got the motor out of the washer...now what?

Not sure that i know how to open the motor up to do this, don't want to break it! this is a picture of the motor- Maytag model 21001950.

 

[tolivac]

There wouldn't be "brushes" in this motor-its an induction motor-maybe the contacts on its start switch are dirty or bad.You do have a sealed motor-you cannot take it apart without damaging it.Is there a start cap associated with this motor-if so replace it.If there is no start cap see if the start switch assembly on the back of the motor can be removed and replaced with a new one.I don't see a start cap value or indication on your motors nameplate.Maybe someone else on this forum who is famaliar with Maytag parts can help.They can tell if the motor has a start cap.If you are seeing "dust" about the motor pulley it may mean the front bearing is going---you will need a new motor if thats the case.I have the same problem with a WP washer-the front bearing in its motor just locked up and seized,looking for another motor-its sealed like yours.I really liked the old style motors you could take apart and repair or fix things like blown bearings.Wait a minute--silly me-the dust you see on the pulley end of the motor is rubbere dust from the belt.You see this on belt driven devices that have had a lot of use.-And the Maytag washer uses the belt sort of like a "clutch" when in spin mode.It slips slightly when going to spin-so there would be some belt dust.

 

[thefixer]

These are AC induction motors, there are no brushes as there is no direct electrical connection to the rotor.

 

[thefixer]

By the way, there are induction motors that utilize brushes and slip rings but these are "wound rotor" type. The ones in washing machines are the "squirrel cage" type that have no physical outside electrical connection to the rotor.

 

[combo52]

Black Dust Around the Motor Pully of Norge-Tag

Is from the belt, The belt is not used as a clutch on Norge-Tag style washers, first of all the pump is driven by the same belt and if the belt was running slowly like on a real MT the machine would not pump out the water. Secondly the cheap plastic motor pulley that Maytag introduced as an improvement on NT models would be lucky to last for two loads before it would melt and destroy itself and the belt, LOL.

 

[combo52]

Black Dust Around the Motor Pully of Norge-Tag

Is from the belt, The belt is not used as a clutch on Norge-Tag style washers, first of all the pump is driven by the same belt and if the belt was running slowly like on a real MT the machine would not pump out the water. Secondly the cheap plastic motor pulley that Maytag introduced as an improvement on NT models would be lucky to last for two loads before it would melt and destroy itself and the belt, LOL.

 

[norgechef]

The black dust

Is coming out around the bottom of the motor like black lint and it was very hard to wash off my hands, like soot from a wood stove.

 

[arbilab]

Never "lubricate" brushes. First off, carbon dust IS a lubricant. Second, if you oil it it turns into a conductive mush that shorts the commutator. And third, as above that motor has no brushes.

 

[combo52]

Black Dust Around the Motor Pully of Norge-Tag

It could be caused by a dry and worn out lower motor bearing but, if the bearing is that dry and worn it will not run long you need another motor or better yet a MOL or better 10 year old DD washer.

 

[tolivac]

"Wound Rotor" motors are not found in appliances-they are usually 3Ph and 5Hp on up.Due to the influx of VFD devices today-the wound rotor motor is losing out-fewer are being used.The last wound rotor motors I saw were Crocker Wheeler 700hp ones used on an older Carrier centrifical HVAC chiller.It ran from 2500V 3ph-the rotor voltage-or "secondary" voltage as the motor builders call it for wound rotor-was 600V.That fed a load bank of very large resistors-used for starting-once the motor and load is at full speed-the rotor circuit is shorted-then the motor is working as a conventional induction motor.
Back to the washer motor problem--is the equipment in the washer operating OK before condeming the motor?Like the transmission can be turned freely,pump turns feely,spin drive turns freely by hand?
Seems like the plastic motor pulley could be causing more friction on the belt-thus more belt dust?Never seen the plastic pulley until now.what a joke!Guess its on the washer and parts suppliers-the pulley wears out-forcing you to buy a new motor and pulley!
Is the motor shaft hard to turn by hand-if so the bearings could be shot.Or if there is noise,or gritty feel when you rotate the motor shaft by hand-bearings shot.Sadly with a sealed motor such as shown-you have to buy a new motor.

 

[combo52]

PLASTIC MOTOR PULLEY

MT actually does make you buy a whole new motor if the plastic pulley fails [ which happens often when the crappy water pump bearing fails and starts to seize ], good news is our parts distributor found a pt# for just the pulley and we get the replacement pumps for these washers from Exact rather than WP  at about 1/4 the cost.

 

There are only about four or five repairs that make any sense on Norge-Tag washers at this point in time, replacing a bad inlet valve, a bad water pump, belt and motor pulley and maybe a bad lid switch, other than these items the washers usually get replaced and crushed.

http://p

 

[tolivac]

Link didn't work-guess for the infamous NorgeTag washers-they are crusher bait unless you can do simple fixes to them.Glad the pulleys can be a separate part.Kinda of a stupid idea-plastic pulleys.The belt could last longer than the pulleys!Sounds like the pumps in these washers frequently fail.

 

[davetranter]

"Wound Rotor Motors"

I agree that these are usually large and 3 phase. I have, however, seen (and still own one of them) two small (less than 1 hp) motors of this type for single-phase operation. They were used where high starting torque was required. The example which I own was, IIRC, built in the USA by the 'Wagner' company. I will try to find it, and will report the details from the data plate when I do.

Manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to 'seal' anything IMHO, all parts of all appliances should be 'user serviceable' subject to the user having the capability.

All best

Dave T

 

[tolivac]

It would be logical that small WR motors were built-but not common.Would like to see a picture of it-what peice of equipment does it power?
I can agree-too-don't think manufactuers-- should no longer be allowed to make sealed motors-they should be repairable-you can easily disassemble them to replace bearings,start switches,and rewind the stators.There is a fellow here at work that used to work at a different transmitter site---where the staff there-including him-used to rebuild 20Hp 3Ph GE induction motors used in the main transmitter blower.These older motors here are completely rebuildable.

 

[davetranter]

Tolivac

(Trying not to 'Hijack' the thread)

Been away the last two days, not had time to look for anything.
The motor which I still have came to me unmounted, so no idea of it's original function, the other was the winding motor for a theatre (theater ) fire safety curtain.
Will try to take/upload photographs when I dig out the motor. (I think I know where it is.... The problem is getting to it at the back of the garage)

All best

Dave T

 

[tolivac]

Dave-can understand-I have stuff buried in the back of the rooms in my house-mostly vacuum cleaners and books.Take your time in getting the motor.A theater curtain motor-here about those on the "Film Tech" site.-back in the days when theaters still used curtains for cinemas to cover the screen when it wasn't in use-and for showmanship.At one time folks didn't like looking at a blank screen-and the curtains helped keep it clean.The curtain motors I see on the Film tech site were standard induction ones.I was so used to seeing high HP wound rotor motors in supply catalogs and never saw reference to smaller ones.The small ones I had seen were used on Merry-Go-Rounds-carrosels.5Hp and 60Hp.5 for small merry go rounds(portable) and 60 hp for the really large stationary park ones.When we mention portable rides-ones that traveled with portable amusements and the stationary ones were built inside a carrousuel building and weren't moved.

 

[davetranter]

Tolivac

Re: 'Fire Safety Curtain' Not sure of the regulations 'Stateside', but here Theatres (as opposed to cinemas) had (and I think still do) to have an asbestos fireproof curtain which could be lowered across the entire width and height of the Proscenium. these weigh from around half a ton in small theatres to 3 or 4 tons in a large auditorium.

The details from my motor data plate:-

Wagner Electric Corporation St Louis U.S.A.

Frame 57 Model XL7 B???

1/8 H.P. 1440 RPM 1 Ph 50 Cycles

400V 338A 200V 169A

Cont Rating 40 'C No. 1822054

The '?'s represent characters I can no longer read

There is obviously a decimal point missing from the current values

Yes... It really IS only rated at one eighth horsepower.

I believe there is a centrifugal mechanism to lift the brushes when it gets up to speed.

Photos (if this works!!)

1) General view

2) 'Money Shot'