i wish modern top loads and modern front loads of today would bring back the hot water wash with war

[pierreandreply4]

Hello to all aw members,

who would like to see brought back on modern he topload and modern front loads of today the hot water wash with warm rinse option as well as the warm wash warm rinse option its strange but i kind of miss these partiicular temp aspecaly when using a warm rinse could save on drying time i may have a 2004 whirlpool duet washer but it do lack a sanitize cycle and internal water heater since its only a 3 wash temp model all cold rinse and why did they have to remove the hot wash warm rinse temp and warm wash warm rinse temp features we could easly have energy star washers with these features

 

[whirlykenmore78]

Warm rinses:

Are not needed for proper rinsing. If the load has been properly washed in hot water none should be needed for rinsing. However living in a cold climate such as I do in Minnesota or you in Quebec a tempering valve can be beneficial. Just set it to keep the incoming cold water around 15C. Then there should be no rinsing problems.
BTW when did you start washing in hot water?
WK78

 

[launderess]

Hot and certainly warm water rinsing

Began dying out as an option when soap was replaced by detergent for wash day.

The next shoe that fell was the "energy crisis" of the 1970's when IIRC you started to see a real push to use cold water at least for rinsing to save energy costs.

Have to look it up but IIRC Consumer Reports stated that even allowing for somewhat more energy used by a dryer doing loads rinsed in cold water there was still savings versus warm.

 

[combo52]

Warm rinsing ???

In any AW is a huge waste of energy and promotes mold growth in the washer and the clothing alike. The amount of energy consumed to heat 25 gallons of rinse water from say 50F to 100F is more than 25 times the extra energy required by the dryer to dry the colder cold rinsed load of clothing.

 

I suppose if you have a solar water heater in your home that has excess capacity I would say go ahead and rinse in warm water, but be where that your clothing may need more ironing if spun at hi-speeds when 100F or more.

 

John L.

 

[johnb300m]

What's the actual point and benefit of rinsing in warm water? When would I actually want to do it?
Serious question. *Snark free*

 

[DADoES]

 
Soap.  Warm rinses are beneficial when washing in soap instead of detergent.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Physics question: Since overflow rinses are a thing of the past, what prevents skin oil/sebum from solidifying and remaining in the clothes?

 

Good point about where you live. Most of my life has been spent in the northeast where cold water (at least in winter) is closer to 5C than 15C.

 

Jim

 

[chachp]

Soap vs. Detergent

 

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I'm sorry to say I don't know the difference.  I would assume anything I buy on the shelf for doing laundry is a detergent based on what's been stated in this thread.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I also always assumed that the switch from warm rinse to cold rinse was more about energy conservation than anything else.</span>

 

 

 

[johnb300m]

Well here's an example.
There's this "international" grocery store by me, because it's near Fermilab, and there's LOTS of international scientists living there.
So there's all sorts of weird detergents and soaps at this store.
Lots of EU and Mexican soaps, in bar and flake form.
Big plastic bags of Ariel and Persil.

I bet that's the "soap" stuff that was mentioned works better with warm rinses.

 

[henene4]

@warmsecondrinse

Nothing. Only that it should no longer be in your laundry&#92 should have went into solution through detergent before the cold rinse starts.

 

[Chetlaham]

Warm rinse

Is a blessing when one lives up north where water is stone cold during the winter.

 

[jeb]

warm rinse

If you have throw rugs with rubber backing warm rinse will help keep the backing from flaking off. Going from hot/warm wash to a cold rinse causes the backing to contract then spin causes it flake off. My mother was the queen of throw rugs- we had them all over, as long as she rinsed in warm the backing lasted for years. When she got the new washer without a warm rinse option they all started deteriorating. After doing some research we found the problem and she replace the washer (with one that had warm rinse option) all was fine again. She never dried then in the dryer ( she had a drying rack just for rugs ). Jeff

 

[psych101]

I am not a warm water freak and believe that all water temperatures have their place in the right wash. For me, a warm rinse is important for things made of pure wool. I also like to use a warm rinse when washing very dirty or oily things, or things like blankets that hold a lot of wash water. I find the warm water helps to break down the scunge a little better and also makes rinsing away powder detergents easier. My new washer does not have a warm rinse option so on the odd occasion I need a warm rinse I usually stop the machine after the first drain & spin, set it to the wash cycle again and fill it with warm water, and then turn it back to rinse for it to continue now full of warm water. I do the same with commercial Maytag top loaders that I have at my workplace (non coin-op) as their rinsing ability leaves a bit to be desired and I find the warm water does make a difference. You can even do hot rinses this way, and if cleaning up something like a vomit covered blanket (or worse) it helps to clean them right up.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

I wish Modern Washers would bring back Hot Wash/Warm Rinse!

[Suggested title; my heading looks like it says "War"]

I think the times I use a Warm Wash are so infrequent that I don't miss it...  Funny how a lot of brands that notoriously omitted the Warm/Warm setting , but had Hot/Warm are bringing the former back, but Hot/Warm hasn't been used or offered by any manufacturer in decades!

 

 

-- Dave

 

[panthera]

Reasons for warm rinsing

1) Wool needs to be washed and rinsed in the same temperature or you'll have bad shrinkage.

2) Soap has to be rinsed with warm water or it won't rinse out properly (Laundress explained this in great detail awile back).

3) It's just plain not true that ice-cold water rinses as well as warmer water. We don't all live in Florida.

 

Until enzyme technology advances to the point at which one can actually clean in cold water, I'll stick with hot water (145F) washing and 50F rinsing.

 

I do believe somebody (Laundress?) had some tips on souring the rinse water to remove residue better?

 

[henene4]

1. Wrong. See Europe: Only ELux had cooldowns on their Wool wash cycles, and even these have been canceled on the current ProTex range, I think.
2. That is true, though, who washes with soap today?
3. Certanly, warm water is a better solvent then cold water. But with detergents catered for cold rinses, does it matter and is it worth the extra energy?

50F is considered round about cold water rinsing in most countrys.

If you sour your rinse water, you counteract the alkaline character of detergents. Not quite sure if that effects the rinse results.

 

[panthera]

Not wrong

Soweit ich weiss, Electrolux specifiziert 'washbare Wolle' dafür, nicht?

I was speaking about US American machines and washing woll garments which aren't specifically treated to be washable in normal programs.

As to the 50F, our 'cold' water right now (wir leben auf etwa 3000 m über dem Meeresspiegel) is at 37F, or not even 3C, to put it the way I think.

To 'sour' is a technical term (comes from the German, actually) and I suggest you do a custom google search for Laundress excellent discussion of why commercial laundries do this and how a home laundry can benefit.

As to the use of soap, we were specifically discussing that. Not only do I have quite a few friends in Munich who are still Ökofreaks using soap, but here in the Rocky Mountain West, a lot of people still use it.

 

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[launderess]

Laundry souring chemicals are used to counteract the by products of alkaline substances used in washing. Sodium carbonate IIRC ends up as sodium bicarbonate, not sure about Borax, sodium metasilicate, phosphates and the rest. All soaps become alkaline in washing (they are made from fats and base (alkaline) substances), while not all detergents are so.

Borax and things made from it such as sodium perborate are difficult to totally rinse out of fabrics, thus can benefit from being neutralized by a laundry sour.

If you don't use alkaline substances in washing; that is liquid detergent then you don't need to use sour. Also if you rinse enough times with quality water you don't need to do it either.

Souring breaks down those various alkaline residue and helps reduce encrustation which is what makes washing look dull and feel hard/scratchy. Being as all this may in the commercial laundry world there is a movement to use pH neutral detergents were possible. These systems do not raise the pH of wash water thus no encrustation and no need for souring.

Back to rinsing....

For washing "cold" water is about 65F to 85F. Below this most detergents especially powders often will not work properly. For rinsing you either take what comes out of the tap (which some parts of the USA/world can be well below 65F during the colder months of the year, install a tempering valve and or mix in the hot water yourself.

Commercial laundries and even some laundromats for reasons above will temper at least the final if not all rinses. Often fabric softener will not dispense and or mix very well in very cold water. During this past winter one made it a point when using local laundryette to check the FS dispenser before starting machine. This after several times huge globs of fabric softener left over from previous load or loads was still in there all congealed. Asked the attendant what was going on and he replied "the FS won't dilute properly because of the cold water".

During the winter when boilers are running full on to provide steam heat it can take running the taps for >2mins before water that was standing in pipes (and thus heated by the warmth in the walls due to the heating being on) to be flushed out and colder water from outside the building to make its way up.

There is a school of thought that feels warm water keeps textile fibers open and thus allows for better rinsing. This is why you didn't plunge soap laden clothing from a wash into cold water, but hot or at least warm. If doing laundry by hand obviously there were limits because human hands can only withstand water but so hot, however with washing machines that is another story.

Unlike soaps the chemicals in modern detergents are quite effective in keeping soils and muck suspended during the carry over into the rinse, and as such aren't affected by a cold water like soap.

The other reason for cold or at least cool rinsing is it helps prevent setting in of creases during spin drying.

If you want to see how soap behaves when washing in cold or cool water shave some up, melt it down into a jelly; then try washing a sink of greasy dishes in cold water. There are soaps however designed to work in cold water. IIRC the US military requested the thing for personal and cleaning/laundry work aboard ships and wherever the military was stationed where hot water was either not available or dear.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Wool: The man who identified my inner washer geek (among several other 'inners' and will therefore always be something of a knight in shining armor to me) within a few minutes of our meeting told me that the SPEED of the temperature change that causes shrinkage more than the amount of change.

 

Rinse temps: I can tell you in the northeastern part of the US 37F is a normal winter&spring water temp <span style="text-decoration: underline;">AM</span> Meerespiegel, forget 3000 m uber, lol.

 

'Souring' a wash: Using white (clear) vinegar in lieu of fabric softener aids greatly in detergent removal by counteracting its alkalinity.  This also courtesy of the aforementioned knight. Clothes do come out softer

 

Jim