Ice Maker Concepts

[whirlcool]

Last month I replaced an ice maker in a GE Refrigerator for a friend. I bought a new GE icemaker with the proper part number for this refrigerator.

I installed the new one. It made ice but doesn't flip it out of the icemaker. So I returned that one and got a new one from a different vendor. Same GE model number. It makes ice but only flips it half way out of the ice maker.

In the instructions it mentions that you have to take off the "scrapper" from the new one and install the one that was on the old ice maker on the new one. The problem is that the old icemaker made 8 cubes per batch and the new ice maker makes 7 cubes per batch. So the old scraper won't fit on the new ice maker.
I called GE and they were less than useless. All they could tell me was that it is the correct replacement for the old ice maker in that model refrigerator.

My question is, how do the mechanicals work in an GE ice maker? You got that top piece with the little poles on it that rotate around with the ice is ready to be dumped. Then you have those plastic pieces that looks like a comb on the top/side of the ice maker. Is this piece stationary? Or does it move?

It seems pretty odd that two different ice makers would have the same problem.
The cord on the original ice machine was about 6" long, the cord on this new one is about 1 foot long. I wonder if it is getting in the way of the comb like thing on the ice maker.

And I thought this was going to be a remove the old one and install a new one deal!

Any ideas? I think it would be very weird to have two machines from two different sources that would have the same problem.

 

[arbilab]

Got one just around the corner in a Hotpoint. It makes 8.

The "comb" just sits there. It's to keep the crescents from flipping over and going back into the freeze chamber instead of the tray. The comb spaces are narrower than the crescents are wide. Without the comb a wayward crescent could fall sideways and stall the mechanism.

Do you mean that the 'new' is the same dimensions as the 'old' but makes 7 instead of 8, each being incrementally wider? And that the comb is not part of the supplied assembly? What the H were they thinking? Why F with a design that goes back to the original Servel patent?

If they have changed the spacing of the rotating fingers and don't supply a matching comb, I don't see a resolution.

 

[rp2813]

odd that two different ice makers would have the same proble

When you're talking GE, nothing would surprise me.

 

Perhaps the third time will be the charm, considering you made some progress with the second one.

 

[frigilux]

Allen, Allen, Allen.  Did you learn nothing from the chorus of curmudgeons who advised you against these 'good deed' repairs for friends and neighbors after the Kenmore dryer debacle?!  Will a group of us have to come to Texas and stage an intervention?  I strongly urge you to find a support group that specializes in combatting "Good Neighbor Syndrome" as soon as possible.

 

: )

 

[whirlcool]

Actually this GE belongs to a very good friend of ours who has the patience of Job.
And he's very appreciative that I am helping him out with this icemaker. This is my last job, I promise!

The original problem was that the icemaker wouldn't make it. So I replaced the water fill solenoid on the back of the refrigerator and that fixed it, but then a few weeks later the icemaker stopped working. Not a comment at all from the owner.
So then we bought a replacement icemaker. It filled and froze the water but it wouldn't dump the ice when made.

So we returned the first ice maker and bought a second one. The instructions said that you must change out the scraper with your old one. But it doesn't line up because the old ice maker made 8 ice cubes and the new one makes only 7 equal sized ice cubes. So I called GE and they said all they could do is to verify that I have the correct part number for that refrigerator model number, which I did.
They also said to just use the stirrer and scraper that came with the new icemaker.

The latest ice maker fills, freezes and pops the ice 1/2 way out of the tray before it quits. Do you think I have a defective ice maker?

BTW, this guy does not live in our neighborhood. He's nothing like that crazy neighbor lady we had. He was the one with the other GE dryer I cleaned out that is still working properly.

Do you mean that the 'new' is the same dimensions as the 'old' but makes 7 instead of 8, each being incrementally wider? And that the comb is not part of the supplied assembly? What the H were they thinking? Why F with a design that goes back to the original Servel patent?

Yes, the new icemaker is the same size as the original but only makes 7 cubes at a time. Yes, the new icemaker came with a comb designed for it. I think the problem is that this is a "universal fit" ice maker. All the mounting screw holes line up with the mounting brackets in the freezer and the power plug fits too, even though they give you a bunch of different power connectors in the package the icemaker came with.

This has become harder than it really needs to be. I mean what's so hard about replacing an ice maker, screw out, screw in should have completed the job.

 

[mrb627]

Ice Size

When it does make ice, are the cubes full size?

 

Malcolm

 

[volvoguy87]

GE ice makers.

Nearly all of the GE ice makers sub to the GE WR30x10093. It has a horizontal paddle that slides left and right to sense if there is ice in the bucket. There are generic versions, but at my store, we sell the GE version all the time, and almost never sell a generic. Is yours the real deal by GE, or is it a generic by ERP or one of their competitors?

Dave

 

[DADoES]

 
Allen, would the batch of cubes left not-fully-dumped (sitting atop the comb piece?) fall on into the bin on the next dump cycle?

 

[frigilux]

Glenn--Ding-ding-ding! You are absolutely correct. I stay at Candlewood Suites whenever I'm in Minneapolis. The rooms have GE refrigerators with ice makers. I always dump out the first batch of ice, as I don't know how long it's been sitting there. I'm pretty sure those cubes are sitting on the comb and another batch is in the "tray", freezing.

 

[whirlcool]

The Icemaker and instructions came in a sealed plastic bag and the instruction manual was marked GE complete with GE's help line phone number.

I'm waiting to hear from the owner to see if the ice machine made more ice overnight.

 

[arbilab]

I get the "park the crescents and not dump them" syndrome if I lift the sense arm after it has gone up and down the first time. It does this once per revolution of the teeth and a full cycle consists of 2 revolutions. During the time the cam raises the sense arm, a microswitch on the cam jumpers the sense switch so that rotation continues. But when the sense arm is down and you raise it manually, rotation stops. If that override microswitch were bad you'd get the "park" effect. Or if the arm were not falling back to the down position.

With the crescents in the park position, another full revolution is required for the fill valve to operate. So no, it's not making the next batch with the crescents parked. Unless the cam has been redesigned to operate in one revolution. Unlikely, as the crescents would be not quite out of their slots when the fill valve actuated and the wet crescents would stick together or freeze onto the fingers.

Anything is possible. What the H was the point changing the number of crescents? Save water?

 

[whirlcool]

This ice maker is the revised electronic model. It doesn't have that bar on the side that you raise to stop ice production and it has an ON/OFF switch on the side.
It has some kind of paddle on the bottom of it I guess to sense if the ice bucket is full.

Is there any way to force this ice maker into a cycle to ensure that power is getting to the unit in the first place (continuous, not intermittently)?

Why they changed the number of cresents is beyond me. The space for 7 is the same as it was for 8.

The refrigerator model number is TFX22GRBCWW

Here is a photo of the type of icemaker is installed: (P/N WR30X10093)

 

[arbilab]

I'll have to bow out then, I had no idea they had been so extensively redesigned. The one I have now is the same as I had in the mid 70s. Which is probably why mine doesn't need replacing.

 

[smartdrive]

Here is a link to the service manual for the electronic ice maker.

http://www.applianceblog.com/mainfo...5-ge-electronic-ice-maker-service-manual.html

 

[whirlcool]

Thanks for the link! I read the Service Manual and while it's for a similar ice maker it's slightly different than the one I have. There is no LCD pilot light on the ice maker to alert you to what it is doing.

One problem is the round 4 pin plug. The original fit just fine. The replacement is the same proper plug but the production quality of the plug is so poor it barely fits.

I tried to initiate a forced harvest operation, but no such luck.

So now here is what we have: An icemaker that fills with water, freezes and doesn't do anything else like "harvest" the ice. How does the refrigerator fill valve know when it is time to add water to the icemaker? Is this communicated from the icemaker itself?

 

[magic_clean]

Is the

freezer cold enough? Usually an ice maker in this application won't go into a harvest unless the freezer is +5F or less.

 

[whirlcool]

Everything is frozen in the refrigerator. I am going down there on Monday with a proper thermometer to check the freezer to see how cold it is.

I suspect that the icemaker is not getting any power. How would I check the socket that the icemaker plugs into for proper voltage? I have a link to the refrigerator service manual and I have a voltmeter.

 

[applianceguy47]

OK,
who wants to place bets that GE dryer guy has kitchen cabinets filled with the pelts of dead Police men who were 5'10" or less?

 

[arbilab]

I know I recused myself, not knowing there was even such thing as "electronic icemaker". But how could it loft the crescents (half harvest) if it had no power?

The IM juzbout has to command the valve. What else would know when it was time to add water? The valve is the other 2 pins on the plug. What else would they be?

The "analog" IMs would not initiate a harvest cycle until the thermostat was satisfied. If reading correctly, yours DOES initiate, it just doesn't complete.

 

[DADoES]

 
Allen, the unit you're dealing with isn't electronic if it doesn't have the green LED.  Info says GE has gone back to a mechanical replacement in some instances. 

Water fill is controlled by the harvest cycle. It can't fill unless the mold is empty, else the water would overflow ... so fill happens at end of the harvest cycle after the current batch of cubes have been scooped out. Fill is timed.

 

[whirlcool]

I thought it was electronic because it has an on/off switch on it.

OK, so if it is filling properly with water that means it has power.(?) Since it isn't harvesting ice, make sure the temp in the freezer is at least 5F or below.

If it's not the temp, then it may be a defective ice maker?

Right so far?

 

[DADoES]

 
If it's a mechanical ice maker, the on/off switch may be mechanical as well, physically moving the sensor arm as if the bin is filled.  Electronic units (which such is in my GE Arctica), the on-off switch is electrical, does not physically interact with the sensor arm.

Electronic units, a harvest cycle can be triggered by turning the switch off for 20+ seconds, then back on, and fully depress/release the sensor arm three times.  Mechanical units, the ejector arm is turned manually far enough until the motor comes on to run a cycle ... assuming doing so doesn't hurt anything.  That's what we did for testing Whirly units back in the day, can't say for sure if it applies to GE specimens.

Harvest cycle is triggered by a thermostat in the ice maker, that I believe is in physical contact with the mold. An empty unit, fresh installed, will trigger a harvest cycle when it gets cold enough (from being in the freezer) to get the first fill and the whole thing started running.  Harvest triggers again when the water for the first batch freezes and the mold again is cold enough ... and the harvest/fill/freeze/harvest cycle continues repeatedly, until interrupted by the sensor arm when the bin is full.

You know there's a heating element under the mold to loosen the cubes for ejection, yes?  Depending on how quick the element heats and how fast the arm turns, the arm may stall when it contacts the cubes in the mold until the cubes warm enough to release.

 

[arbilab]

It took almost an hour searching but here is the best cycle and wiring diagram of GE mechanical icemaker I could find. Ideally there would be a second cam at 2:1 gearing controlling the water valve. But that would take more parts so they made the thermo do 2 things and crossed their fingers. Apparently the length of time it takes the thermo to reach 36F determines the cycle length, which should be 2 revolutions of the main shaft. Were the freezer much warmer, the thermo could open in 1 revolution, dispense water, and stop at the 'home' position with the crescents parked as you seem to be observing. Are you certain the freezer fan is running and the defrost heater and timer working?

Note, the mechanicals may have 'off' switches but they do NOT have LEDs. Both the mechanicals and electronics may exist in current replacement stock, though "the buzz" is that the electronic has been set aside and the mechanical is currently shipping. Which also means part sellers can be eager to clear their stock of electronics and preferentially ship those until exhausted. Both have apparently transitioned to the 7-slot layout, though the mechanical layout and operation matches my 8-slot (I partially disassembled it).

http://www.appliance-repair-it.com/GE-icemaker.html

 

[whirlcool]

Thank you all for taking the time to research this problem for me. I certainly do appreciate it.

I'm going back there tomorrow armed with a freezer thermometer (a good one) and my trusty old voltmeter/continuity tester. I've contacted the seller who pretty much said that this model is the only real replacement for most GE Icemakers and he is aware that the quality control is less than desirable, but that's what GE makes today.

I'm going to run the tests outlined above and check to make sure the temps are normal in the freezer, etc. If it doesn't do the diagnostics back it goes and the owner will have to revert back to ice cube trays in this case.

I'll let you all know what happens.

 

[arbilab]

Best I can determine, if it doesn't have LED it is NOT electronic and doesn't have diagnostics. At the same time I found no mention of the "paddle" sensor being associated with the mechanical version.

But as has been already pointed out, with GE anything is possible.

 

[magic_clean]

Allen

this may have been previously mentioned----while you are checking things out, make sure to observe the condition of the condensor coils and fan. They are tucked away behind the kickplate. If they are dusty, this can impact the cooling ability. This can lead to temperatures that seem ok, but they are just not cold enough to operate the icemaker. This is an older refrigerator, so there could be some deferred maintenance.

Another area to check is the defrost system. Look for frost forming on rear panel of the freezer.

 

[whirlcool]

There is a possibility that the coils may be dirty. There's a few cats in the house.
When I meant diagnostics, I meant trying to get the ice maker to initiate a manual harvest of the ice. So far all we have seen is 1/2 a cycle and no more movement at all from the machine since then.
The ice cubes inside are frozen though.

So today we'll check the temp in the freezer, check the coils, check the electrical plug.
I'll let you all know.

 

[whirlcool]

OK, here we go.... mission accomplished.

This refrigerator had multiple problems as a number of you guessed.

The initial problem was the ice maker wouldn't make ice because the fill solenoid quit. I put in a new one to solve that problem but it wouldn't make ice.

So today I went down there armed with an arsenal of test equipment and cleaning equipment.

First off all, what was causing the ice maker not to work? Well, the old ice maker collection bin (where the ice goes after being dumped) wasn't compatible with the new ice maker even though they looked the same and are the same size. It seems the cord with the power connector on the original was "keyed" so it would only connect with the cable to the ice maker on the top of the socket. This kept it out of the way of the bin. The new ice maker power cable was keyed so the socket would only fit if the cable was coming from the bottom of the freezer. So when you pushed the collection bin in the freezer, it would knock the ice machines power connector out of the socket. You couldn't see this because you couldn't see behind the bin when it was installed. So I removed the bin and put in a good freezer thermometer to see what the temp was.

But wait, there's more!

3 hours later the temp in the freezer was +15 and the temp in the refrigerator was +46F. And this was with the temp controls set at maximum cold. So I disconnected the power from the wall and popped off the trim plate on the bottom of the front of the refrigerator. What did I find? It was almost death by cat hair. I have never seen a refrigerator coil so filthy! It was just packed solid with dirt, dust, cat hair & even a few feathers. We tilted the refrigerator on it's side and got under there with a coil brush. I must have pulled out a full plastic garbage bag full of debris. Then we vacuumed it out with a shop vac. Those coils were gleaming shiny when we were done.
When we plugged the refrigerator back in you could actually hear the compressor switch on and those coils got good & hot. I left the thermometer there so I could call and check in with the owner about what the temps are doing later.

So I suggested to the owner to just get a generic bin for the ice maker and go from there. BUT this is a through the door side by side and the owner wants to maintain that feature with the ice through the door. Have you seen the prices of those bins with the augers inside? Just as pricey as the ice maker itself.
I was able to force a harvest of ice, but even though there wasn't any in the ice maker it went through the motions correctly.

A special huge thanks to all of you who responded to help me out with this. I now know more than I ever wanted to know about ice makers and freezers. And I still don't know all that much! The owner is very happy with the way things turned out and I pointed him to where he could order the compatible bin himself. I'm done with the ice maker & appliance business for sure!

 

[applianceguy47]

Allen, your certainly a hero.  I'm sure this guy is VERY GRATEFUL for all you've done.

 

And look a the talent here, who helped out.  I would have had a clue but not the experience these fine people did.

 

All YOU need to do now is learn how to charge the sealed system, and you could become  a certified technician.  seriously,  If you managed this much....

 

 

OK, so for the snark.  Tell us about the feathers?  

Are we talking parakeet- cat-got-ahold-of-a-previous-pet-that-"magically disappeared", type feathers

or

are we talking feathers from a dramatic, my-best-friend-has-a-fetish-I-didn't-know-about-headband-that-was-worn-to-a 'special'-parade, kind of thing?

 

 

[whirlcool]

I don't know where the feathers came from. Neither does the owner. Since they have a kitty door for the cats to go out and play while he's at work lord only know what they may have dragged in.
No, I am certain that this guy is not a drag queen. He's a aero engineer that used to work for NASA until the shuttle went away. Then he got laid off and has been looking for an engineering job ever since. Currently he's working for an oil company as a computer programmer.
But "nobody ever told me" that he had to clean the bottom of the refrigerator. I think this refrigerator dates back to the early/mid 90's. It's in good shape overall and he keeps the inside clean. That was probably 15 years worth of debris that we cleaned out of it today.

I really don't know what he's going to do to find an ice bin that is compatible with his through the door unit, it has to be at least 3 inches shorter than the one the freezer came with. If this were my refrigerator, I'd buy a generic fit one and just grab the cubes out of that.