Is it over for Whirlpool ?
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Pat...
I hate to say it, but I'm afraid it is. Same for GE.
I hate to say it, but I'm afraid it is. Same for GE.
It was over for GE when theyvwere sold to Haier.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
I really would be devastated if this happened.... Let's hope they're able to bounce back and he's wrong.
Mark 100% agree ! Not going to lie. This sounds REALLY bad for them. It's a shame and I hope they by some miracle turn this around.
I say yes it is. Corporate greed has taken over and they are done.
I wouldn't expect this washer/board problem to be as much of a hit on the company as he's claiming ... remains to be seen.
Frigidaire
We already saw what happened with Frigidaire.
We already saw what happened with Frigidaire.
1. 650 people is about 1.3% of their employees. That's probably FAR below normal turnover. Just not hiring for a month or two would have been the same.
2. They still met (an exceeded) their projected earnings last year. Every manufacturer had a post Covid crash - look at ANY manufacturers financial data, and you'll see 2022 SUCKED.
3. If the VMW would be such a reputation disaster, it would have been 15 years ago. Again: The VMW has been known to be problematic basically since day 1.
4. A board costs 300$ in retail. I can GUARANTEE you a replacement board costs Whirlpool no more than 50$ in production. Further, they will basically tell everybody that a call out will cost X if it isn't that particular fault. That number will be around 150-200$ just for someone to show up and then maybe have that fee waived if it is that fault.
That again means that probably about half of all customers who would be entitled to that free repair don't ever get it.
BSH had a far larger recall. Several, actually.
Hotpoint had a far larger recall (several, actually, as well), made just as crappy and fault prone appliances, was far smaller - and still didn't bankrupt on it.
And this isn't even a safety critical recall - they don't have to do ANYTHING unless they want to. Any free repair is just a kindness done by them.
You would be impressed how little a bad product matters once you have a certain market share.
Them reducing their low profit cheap brands in times of inflation is just natural.
Again - EVERYBODY did that.
There is SO MUCH more to happen for a publicly traded company to go bankrupt then one production run having a higher than normal failure rate.
Doom and glooming them will not change a thing.
2. They still met (an exceeded) their projected earnings last year. Every manufacturer had a post Covid crash - look at ANY manufacturers financial data, and you'll see 2022 SUCKED.
3. If the VMW would be such a reputation disaster, it would have been 15 years ago. Again: The VMW has been known to be problematic basically since day 1.
4. A board costs 300$ in retail. I can GUARANTEE you a replacement board costs Whirlpool no more than 50$ in production. Further, they will basically tell everybody that a call out will cost X if it isn't that particular fault. That number will be around 150-200$ just for someone to show up and then maybe have that fee waived if it is that fault.
That again means that probably about half of all customers who would be entitled to that free repair don't ever get it.
BSH had a far larger recall. Several, actually.
Hotpoint had a far larger recall (several, actually, as well), made just as crappy and fault prone appliances, was far smaller - and still didn't bankrupt on it.
And this isn't even a safety critical recall - they don't have to do ANYTHING unless they want to. Any free repair is just a kindness done by them.
You would be impressed how little a bad product matters once you have a certain market share.
Them reducing their low profit cheap brands in times of inflation is just natural.
Again - EVERYBODY did that.
There is SO MUCH more to happen for a publicly traded company to go bankrupt then one production run having a higher than normal failure rate.
Doom and glooming them will not change a thing.
Consumers are to blame as much as manufacturers. Consumers voted with their wallets for ever more fancy, feature packed machines at the lowest average cost. Few shopped based on build quality, very few demanded longevity, or even protested the discontinuation of the proven products like the direct drive. In the end manufacturers just respond to the market while adjusting to the cost of raw material inflation.
magic_clean
Well-known member
Regarding the washer service problem
Likely how things could work:
*if the fault is due to a component not made by Whirlpool--there is what is known as Supplier Recovery.
Probably, the maker-supplier of the control or perhaps whatever component on the control that has failed, assists with the associated costs
-LP
Likely how things could work:
*if the fault is due to a component not made by Whirlpool--there is what is known as Supplier Recovery.
Probably, the maker-supplier of the control or perhaps whatever component on the control that has failed, assists with the associated costs
-LP
Is this the end for whirlpool?
That video is so ridiculous and that guy is so obnoxious. I don’t watch any of his videos. I have not watched this one.
I watched a few of his reviews and have learned almost nothing. I remember when he came up with a stupid modification for the lint filter in the GE combo it’s totally a problem he generated in his mind. There is no problem with the lint filter in the GE combos and they have not been modified to this day because there was nothing wrong with them to begin with. And his stupid modification doesn’t do any good anyway he just glues the thing together and then you can’t clean it properly.
This guy does not have much experience on the road, I have not seen him offer. Any tips on repairing or selecting appliances that were all that worthwhile.
Back to the topic whirlpool is not in a major downturn. This is not a major problem. Whirlpool has had much bigger problems and recalls over the years as others who have some knowledge of the industry have already posted. This does not cost whirlpool very much money it cost a little bit of reputation, but they’re making between 10 and 20,000 of these washers every single day and we have customers that love these washers, there’s even been several people on this site who have recently commented how much they like these washers they are not giving much trouble anymore.
John L
That video is so ridiculous and that guy is so obnoxious. I don’t watch any of his videos. I have not watched this one.
I watched a few of his reviews and have learned almost nothing. I remember when he came up with a stupid modification for the lint filter in the GE combo it’s totally a problem he generated in his mind. There is no problem with the lint filter in the GE combos and they have not been modified to this day because there was nothing wrong with them to begin with. And his stupid modification doesn’t do any good anyway he just glues the thing together and then you can’t clean it properly.
This guy does not have much experience on the road, I have not seen him offer. Any tips on repairing or selecting appliances that were all that worthwhile.
Back to the topic whirlpool is not in a major downturn. This is not a major problem. Whirlpool has had much bigger problems and recalls over the years as others who have some knowledge of the industry have already posted. This does not cost whirlpool very much money it cost a little bit of reputation, but they’re making between 10 and 20,000 of these washers every single day and we have customers that love these washers, there’s even been several people on this site who have recently commented how much they like these washers they are not giving much trouble anymore.
John L
Hi John, I am sorry you don't like my videos, but kindly I am unsure why you'd say the video is rediculous, but (also) you didn't watch it, either.
Whirlpool's revenue is down to levels that are pre-Maytag acquisition. Its not that they have had a COVID bust, but their 2024 revenues put them down 25% from most any year from 2006-onward (they've averaged about $20 billion/yr since '06, and 2024 saw about $16.6b in revenues).
Its possible that this problem doesn't bankrupt them, but there's a lot of ill-will in the tech community towards them. The VMAX system has huge numbers of service bulletins on it. Between the wiring loom and the slider assembly not being moisture-resistant, its a very, very poorly-rated machine (most are the worst-rated machines on the market from big box currently). Much less the VMW problems which Whirlpool has now extended the board replacements beyond the year and a half.
Yes, customers absolutely love VMWs and I have for years. Its always been my cheap go-to washer, but you're hard pressed now to find many people that will suggest them. I see more techs pitching LG and GE than Whirlpool, which is a huge shift in the past 3-4 years.
But like Maytag's reputation, a string of problems can ruin what was built over decades, which was kind of the point of the video. Maytag went from record profits in 1999 to acquisition in 6 years. All it took was some mold, wax, and leaky tubs to sour the reputation.
I've been doing videos for 5 years, and repairing for nearly 10. I certainly don't have the experience you do in the industry, and I certainly respect you for that. However, due to the channel I get to read and research comments and data from millions of people. My actual background is in data and analytics, not appliance repair. And when I look at the industry-wide trends, I don't think any of it really favors Whirlpool. As stated in the video, aggregating customer reviews of every brand and product suite, Whirlpool now is rated as being below average on virtually every appliance type other than Dishwashers where they are still well-rated.
What I've learned, if I've learned anything, is that when a brand name gets soured because of a bad recall, people tend to change brands and don't look back for a long time. Samsung (seemingly) has been learning that lesson for a few years after they apologized privately to techs at ASTI a few years back for how bad they've handled CS, then released the Bespoke line which seems to of fixed a lot of the failure points. One would assume they saw losses on that causing them to try to bounce back.
Again, I don't think Whirlpool will go bankrupt and I was very, very careful in the video not to say that they would - but I think that this situation is going to weaken them to the point the offer Bosch made last year becomes more and more attractive for them, and they go the way of GE and get bought out by a foreign company. This time though, maybe it'll look better than a Chinese mega-corp.
Re: Supplier recovery - thats a great point but the one thing about this issue is that I don't think anyone knows whats caused the issue yet. Some believe its the pressure transducer getting fouled up with water, causing the diaphragm to send a high-voltage spike to the control board, resulting in the flood control mode. I've seen other techs look at the failure chain and state its a resistor and capacitor in line with the transducer. When we did voltage tests on some boards that were sent to my store, the VDC signal looked to be correct, though on the damaged boards which makes me think the problem is deeper to where the likelihood of supplier recovery is less likely. But thats me, maybe I am just too new to understand it all, but I think like I said, its a canary in the colemine situation akin to when Maytag shuttered the Galesburg plant in '02.
Whirlpool's revenue is down to levels that are pre-Maytag acquisition. Its not that they have had a COVID bust, but their 2024 revenues put them down 25% from most any year from 2006-onward (they've averaged about $20 billion/yr since '06, and 2024 saw about $16.6b in revenues).
Its possible that this problem doesn't bankrupt them, but there's a lot of ill-will in the tech community towards them. The VMAX system has huge numbers of service bulletins on it. Between the wiring loom and the slider assembly not being moisture-resistant, its a very, very poorly-rated machine (most are the worst-rated machines on the market from big box currently). Much less the VMW problems which Whirlpool has now extended the board replacements beyond the year and a half.
Yes, customers absolutely love VMWs and I have for years. Its always been my cheap go-to washer, but you're hard pressed now to find many people that will suggest them. I see more techs pitching LG and GE than Whirlpool, which is a huge shift in the past 3-4 years.
But like Maytag's reputation, a string of problems can ruin what was built over decades, which was kind of the point of the video. Maytag went from record profits in 1999 to acquisition in 6 years. All it took was some mold, wax, and leaky tubs to sour the reputation.
I've been doing videos for 5 years, and repairing for nearly 10. I certainly don't have the experience you do in the industry, and I certainly respect you for that. However, due to the channel I get to read and research comments and data from millions of people. My actual background is in data and analytics, not appliance repair. And when I look at the industry-wide trends, I don't think any of it really favors Whirlpool. As stated in the video, aggregating customer reviews of every brand and product suite, Whirlpool now is rated as being below average on virtually every appliance type other than Dishwashers where they are still well-rated.
What I've learned, if I've learned anything, is that when a brand name gets soured because of a bad recall, people tend to change brands and don't look back for a long time. Samsung (seemingly) has been learning that lesson for a few years after they apologized privately to techs at ASTI a few years back for how bad they've handled CS, then released the Bespoke line which seems to of fixed a lot of the failure points. One would assume they saw losses on that causing them to try to bounce back.
Again, I don't think Whirlpool will go bankrupt and I was very, very careful in the video not to say that they would - but I think that this situation is going to weaken them to the point the offer Bosch made last year becomes more and more attractive for them, and they go the way of GE and get bought out by a foreign company. This time though, maybe it'll look better than a Chinese mega-corp.
Re: Supplier recovery - thats a great point but the one thing about this issue is that I don't think anyone knows whats caused the issue yet. Some believe its the pressure transducer getting fouled up with water, causing the diaphragm to send a high-voltage spike to the control board, resulting in the flood control mode. I've seen other techs look at the failure chain and state its a resistor and capacitor in line with the transducer. When we did voltage tests on some boards that were sent to my store, the VDC signal looked to be correct, though on the damaged boards which makes me think the problem is deeper to where the likelihood of supplier recovery is less likely. But thats me, maybe I am just too new to understand it all, but I think like I said, its a canary in the colemine situation akin to when Maytag shuttered the Galesburg plant in '02.
Reply #12
When I had the commercial whirlpool CAE2795FQ, that machine didn't give me ANY trouble in the 2 years I owned it.
I really liked the protocol for over sudsing and the 4 spray rinses it did. It even one time did 2 deep rinses and I happened to catch it on video.
It only did that once in the time I had it. The conditions must have been just right for it to trigger two deep rinses.
When I had the commercial whirlpool CAE2795FQ, that machine didn't give me ANY trouble in the 2 years I owned it.
I really liked the protocol for over sudsing and the 4 spray rinses it did. It even one time did 2 deep rinses and I happened to catch it on video.
It only did that once in the time I had it. The conditions must have been just right for it to trigger two deep rinses.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Personally... I don't feel like this control board problem is any way a new thing.. I feel like over the years I've constantly read stories of control board failures... no matter which company made the appliance. I guess there could be a string of really bad ones...
MrStickball, please do not take John's replies personally or his half dozen flying monkeys seriously. It serves him a purpose totally different than what is being read or interpreted at face value. He disparages anyone who doesn't hold his opinions or world view. It is a character fault of John's unhindered by a lack of insight.
You are not obnoxious, ridiculous or wrong. Everything you say is true, everything. The industry needs someone to speak up in an articulate, intelligent manner backed up by facts and you are doing just that with excellence.
I am learning a lot, as well as agreeing with your findings that Whirlpool is falling behind in innovation and customer satisfaction across all of their brands. Hopefully Whirlpool can turn things around.
You are not obnoxious, ridiculous or wrong. Everything you say is true, everything. The industry needs someone to speak up in an articulate, intelligent manner backed up by facts and you are doing just that with excellence.
I am learning a lot, as well as agreeing with your findings that Whirlpool is falling behind in innovation and customer satisfaction across all of their brands. Hopefully Whirlpool can turn things around.
panasonicvac
Well-known member
I don't know what would happen to Whirlpool in the future, but I've said this before recently and I'll say it again. Whirlpool isn't the same as they used to be anymore, I used to really like them but nowadays it's hard for me to buy another new Whirlpool product. There's like a couple of products I wouldn't mind getting like their basic dryer and dishwasher but everything else has my eyes on different companies. In fact the last time I spoke to my local appliance service technician not too long ago on what he'd recommend for each product, there was not a single Whirlpool model he listed. LG for laundry, Bosch for dishwasher, Frigidaire for fridge and stove, etc. Just reading over the comment section of the video, yikes! Some of them have even backed up saying that it's true so this isn't looking good for Whirlpool. Let's say Whirlpool were to get bought out, and if whoever did decided to sell off Amana and Maytag, I think it'd be cool if they reached out to Alliance Laundry Systems on a lease agreement making classic Speed Queen washers and dryers for Amana and Maytag again. I doubt it'd happen but who knows.
Is it over for whirlpool corporation
Reply number 13, hi Benny, thanks for responding, my remarks were a little harsh yes but the reason I don’t watch a video like that is because it’s just click bait to get you money. It’s ridiculousto Say that whirlpool is on the verge of collapse and they don’t make any good products anymore and then you say in your response that you never meant to say they’re about to go out of business. It was not a well researched Video that’s for sure.
Whirlpool is a huge Appliance maker in many different countries of the world. They have a value of over $5.6 billion currently and 44,000 employees.
Many of their largest manufacturing plants are in Ohio Clyde, Ohio makes nearly 20,000 washing machines a day Findlay, Ohio is the biggest dishwasher plant in the world And Marion Ohio is the biggest clothes dryer plant in the world. These are still union plants and being a fellow Ohio resident I would think you would be proud of them and not be promoting products from China and South Korea over great stuff that is made in your state.
If you do a little bit of research, you will see how much money whirlpool gives to worthy charities, such as Habitat for Humanity and many others in this country and all over the world they also make some of the best products in the world they won fortune magazines best Appliance company, and many other awards in the last two years.
Hi Benny, I would love to meet you sometime come and visit will give you a tour of the museum, etc.. I’m sure we would have a lot to discuss, but if you’re gonna continue bashing whirlpool, I think you should stop wearing the Maytag hat. Maytag is whirlpool they’ve owned this name for nearly 20 years. It doesn’t look very genuine to be bashing a company and wearing their logo.
I wish you continued success in the Appliance business. Hope to meet you someday, John L
Reply number 13, hi Benny, thanks for responding, my remarks were a little harsh yes but the reason I don’t watch a video like that is because it’s just click bait to get you money. It’s ridiculousto Say that whirlpool is on the verge of collapse and they don’t make any good products anymore and then you say in your response that you never meant to say they’re about to go out of business. It was not a well researched Video that’s for sure.
Whirlpool is a huge Appliance maker in many different countries of the world. They have a value of over $5.6 billion currently and 44,000 employees.
Many of their largest manufacturing plants are in Ohio Clyde, Ohio makes nearly 20,000 washing machines a day Findlay, Ohio is the biggest dishwasher plant in the world And Marion Ohio is the biggest clothes dryer plant in the world. These are still union plants and being a fellow Ohio resident I would think you would be proud of them and not be promoting products from China and South Korea over great stuff that is made in your state.
If you do a little bit of research, you will see how much money whirlpool gives to worthy charities, such as Habitat for Humanity and many others in this country and all over the world they also make some of the best products in the world they won fortune magazines best Appliance company, and many other awards in the last two years.
Hi Benny, I would love to meet you sometime come and visit will give you a tour of the museum, etc.. I’m sure we would have a lot to discuss, but if you’re gonna continue bashing whirlpool, I think you should stop wearing the Maytag hat. Maytag is whirlpool they’ve owned this name for nearly 20 years. It doesn’t look very genuine to be bashing a company and wearing their logo.
I wish you continued success in the Appliance business. Hope to meet you someday, John L
