verizonbear
Well-known member
Just curious if anybody has heard anything in that regard. Maybe they will release it under the Maytag nameplate? They had some condenser models recently released in the last 3-4 years. No fanfare on those .
Is Whirlpool working on it's own version of the heat pump combo ?
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Phil, I would hope they would. I'd also love for them to tout their history and prior expertise in combo units.
My next door fair weather neighbors have a Whirlpool heat pump dryer with a Whirlpool stack heater washer that fills only cold and both are 110. I know she said to dry a load of heavy towels was over 2 hours and they bought at Lowes 3 years ago. Plus emptying a bin of water every load I am sure they were foreign made but they work fine when they are here. Nothing I would ever want.
Heat pump dryer isn't a bad idea from an efficiency standpoint but it adds additional complexity to the design making is more repair prone. There's also additional maintenance required. It could be tolerable for 1-2 adults without kids but its not something a family would endure for very long or at all.
Tim, those are from Europe and have horrible reliability issues.
As I have said again and again, EU appliances aren't US appliances, and heatpump dryers surely can be built to be fast.
We do have HP dryers that do well spun 16-18lbs loads in 80min or less.
And that is in a compact format, keep in mind.
Now that the US has a COMBO that can dry 10lbs in 60-90min, I think it should be obvious building a dryer that runs quicker than that shouldn't be hard.
Yes, they need more maintenance in a way. You will most likely always have an additional filter, and people who don't clean filters as is won't be happy.
But you can also skip any vent issue just straight away. And we have had some vent issue reports on here over the past few weeks!
And complexity is partly right.
You do have the compressor, heat exchanger and related sensor and capacitor - but HP dryers in the EU in general have proven to be very reliable.
No heater to burn out, fewer stat issues since you only have 1 NTC in many dryers and the compressors are - as they are in most cases - pretty much unkillable for a decade or two.
We do have HP dryers that do well spun 16-18lbs loads in 80min or less.
And that is in a compact format, keep in mind.
Now that the US has a COMBO that can dry 10lbs in 60-90min, I think it should be obvious building a dryer that runs quicker than that shouldn't be hard.
Yes, they need more maintenance in a way. You will most likely always have an additional filter, and people who don't clean filters as is won't be happy.
But you can also skip any vent issue just straight away. And we have had some vent issue reports on here over the past few weeks!
And complexity is partly right.
You do have the compressor, heat exchanger and related sensor and capacitor - but HP dryers in the EU in general have proven to be very reliable.
No heater to burn out, fewer stat issues since you only have 1 NTC in many dryers and the compressors are - as they are in most cases - pretty much unkillable for a decade or two.
Heat pump dryer, reliability
Has yet to be proven, it will have different problems. Just getting rid of the venting is a huge cause of problems with regular dryers, and if you compare, even older, Maytag, whirlpool and GE pairs dryers always require more service calls than washers over their normal life.
The compressor and refrigeration system will be a relatively in frequent problem, but there is a little more complexity with filters, but you won’t have all the problems with Motors getting clogged up with lint, etc. and heating element problems as mentioned.
I don’t think there’s any compact dryer that will even hold 16 to 18 pounds of laundry somebody’s gonna have to show me that .
We got 12 of the compact French made whirlpool dryers from Eugene that are heat pumps. These operate on 240 V haven’t seen a 120 V one so far no problems with any of them but I don’t expect them to be as durable as an older whirlpool or Speed Queen dryer of course.
John
Has yet to be proven, it will have different problems. Just getting rid of the venting is a huge cause of problems with regular dryers, and if you compare, even older, Maytag, whirlpool and GE pairs dryers always require more service calls than washers over their normal life.
The compressor and refrigeration system will be a relatively in frequent problem, but there is a little more complexity with filters, but you won’t have all the problems with Motors getting clogged up with lint, etc. and heating element problems as mentioned.
I don’t think there’s any compact dryer that will even hold 16 to 18 pounds of laundry somebody’s gonna have to show me that .
We got 12 of the compact French made whirlpool dryers from Eugene that are heat pumps. These operate on 240 V haven’t seen a 120 V one so far no problems with any of them but I don’t expect them to be as durable as an older whirlpool or Speed Queen dryer of course.
John
One is leery of heat pump dryers since (unless one is mistaken) just as with air conditioners, refrigerators, freezers and other such appliances with condensers, what that part fails thing is basically ready for the tip. Cost to repair or replace a condenser at that point is often more than thing is worth.
OTOH standard vented dryers can last basically forever with proper maintenance and care. When time comes the things can often easily be overhauled and then put back into service for many more decades to come.
OTOH standard vented dryers can last basically forever with proper maintenance and care. When time comes the things can often easily be overhauled and then put back into service for many more decades to come.
Owners of current models of WP hybrid heat pump dryers either swear by them, or at them...
https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/WHD560CHW.html#WHD560CHW-reviews-tab-pane
Ditto for matching washer: https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/WFW560CHW.html
https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/WHD560CHW.html#WHD560CHW-reviews-tab-pane
Ditto for matching washer: https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/WFW560CHW.html
IMHO answer to OP's query is that much will depend upon action from Washington, D.C.
If Biden wins another term and that some kind of piece of DOE secretary insists on promoting and otherwise putting into place every crackpot idea out of CA, including restrictions of energy use for appliances, then WP like others may have their hands forced.
Same applies if more states and or local areas keep pushing for bans on natural gas appliances and so forth.
Final piece of puzzle will be how future generations of Americans live.
Remember condenser (or vent less if you will) dryers largely came into existence because European appliance manufacturers saw a niche that wanted filling. That is households that wanted clothes dryers but venting for various reasons was not possible. Couple this with size of average homes or apartments decreasing (less space for full sized washers and or dryers), and you can see where things would go.
Even in their native land of Europe combination washer/dryers are often a solution that is looking for a problem. Most do well enough with washing, it's drying where things get interesting. Those without other options or for various other reasons will overlook any negatives and focus only on benefits.
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-washer-dryer-combo/
https://reviewed.usatoday.com/laundry/best-right-now/best-washer-dryer-combos
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/product-reviews/electricals/g30729580/best-washer-dryers/
If Biden wins another term and that some kind of piece of DOE secretary insists on promoting and otherwise putting into place every crackpot idea out of CA, including restrictions of energy use for appliances, then WP like others may have their hands forced.
Same applies if more states and or local areas keep pushing for bans on natural gas appliances and so forth.
Final piece of puzzle will be how future generations of Americans live.
Remember condenser (or vent less if you will) dryers largely came into existence because European appliance manufacturers saw a niche that wanted filling. That is households that wanted clothes dryers but venting for various reasons was not possible. Couple this with size of average homes or apartments decreasing (less space for full sized washers and or dryers), and you can see where things would go.
Even in their native land of Europe combination washer/dryers are often a solution that is looking for a problem. Most do well enough with washing, it's drying where things get interesting. Those without other options or for various other reasons will overlook any negatives and focus only on benefits.
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-washer-dryer-combo/
https://reviewed.usatoday.com/laundry/best-right-now/best-washer-dryer-combos
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/product-reviews/electricals/g30729580/best-washer-dryers/
Compact combos are certainly a solution with drawbacks, just to be used if no other option is viable.
Heat pump drying is something different.
You get same drying with 1/3rd the power consumption and way lower connected load.
Especially given you can run a very capable dryer off of 120V, they will likely play a role in replacing gas dryers.
With electrification being the ultimate goal, and grids already struggling, they might be a thing coming more widely.
But as long as single digit electricity prices are a thing, I don't think they will see automatic adoption.
Heat pump drying is something different.
You get same drying with 1/3rd the power consumption and way lower connected load.
Especially given you can run a very capable dryer off of 120V, they will likely play a role in replacing gas dryers.
With electrification being the ultimate goal, and grids already struggling, they might be a thing coming more widely.
But as long as single digit electricity prices are a thing, I don't think they will see automatic adoption.
In many areas of USA where available natural gas or maybe propane are usually far cheaper than electricity.
In our neck of woods people with a choice will always go for gas dryers, cooking appliances, heating and so on over electricity due to cost.
Wherever you see state or local governments in USA pushing to ban or restrict natural gas appliances, you also often see some sort of effort to protect "low income", "persons of color", "minority communities" and others from what surely will be high costs of using electricity. Irony is that those pushing for banning natural gas go on about how its use harms those very same communities.
In our neck of woods people with a choice will always go for gas dryers, cooking appliances, heating and so on over electricity due to cost.
Wherever you see state or local governments in USA pushing to ban or restrict natural gas appliances, you also often see some sort of effort to protect "low income", "persons of color", "minority communities" and others from what surely will be high costs of using electricity. Irony is that those pushing for banning natural gas go on about how its use harms those very same communities.
Heat pump dryer, reliability
There is no reason heat pump dryers couldn’t easily outlast the great dryers that we’ve had in this country for the last many decades, compressors are about the last thing to give you trouble in modern refrigerators and condensers never ever ever fail. It’s just copper tubing.
And once full-size combination, washer dryer start to catch on they’ll be even less need for repair people because a combination washer dryer will have less problems than both the washer and dryer because they’re much simpler than a washer and a dryer.
Like others said, getting rid of the high amperage connections, thermal fuses, and heating elements that are a big problem in current 240 V electric dryers and of course all the components that go bad in gas dryers will make heat pump dryers potentially very reliable.
The only problem with combination. Washer dryers is really been that they were too small Things in Europe never made any sense for a serious washer and dryer machine will have to be bigger physically that’s the problem with the new LG heat pump combo already is that didn’t put a big enough refrigeration system in it it needs to be in a bigger cabinet, GE was smarter to have the machine taller so you could have a decent size heat pump unit in it.
If I was designing it, I would put the heat pump unit underneath so the washing machine loading and unloading would be a better height.
There is no reason heat pump dryers couldn’t easily outlast the great dryers that we’ve had in this country for the last many decades, compressors are about the last thing to give you trouble in modern refrigerators and condensers never ever ever fail. It’s just copper tubing.
And once full-size combination, washer dryer start to catch on they’ll be even less need for repair people because a combination washer dryer will have less problems than both the washer and dryer because they’re much simpler than a washer and a dryer.
Like others said, getting rid of the high amperage connections, thermal fuses, and heating elements that are a big problem in current 240 V electric dryers and of course all the components that go bad in gas dryers will make heat pump dryers potentially very reliable.
The only problem with combination. Washer dryers is really been that they were too small Things in Europe never made any sense for a serious washer and dryer machine will have to be bigger physically that’s the problem with the new LG heat pump combo already is that didn’t put a big enough refrigeration system in it it needs to be in a bigger cabinet, GE was smarter to have the machine taller so you could have a decent size heat pump unit in it.
If I was designing it, I would put the heat pump unit underneath so the washing machine loading and unloading would be a better height.
"Remember condenser (or vent less if you will) dryers largely came into existence because European appliance manufacturers saw a niche that wanted filling. That is households that wanted clothes dryers but venting for various reasons was not possible. Couple this with size of average homes or apartments decreasing (less space for full sized washers and or dryers), and you can see where things would go."
I think in the UK, the main reason for the existence of condenser dryers and their popularity over vented, was most houses were brick and block construction. A condenser dryer can go anywhere there's a convenient socket, but putting a 4" vent hole in wasn't an easy job, So most people who bought a vented dryer would have it near a window and shove the vent hose out of the open window when they wanted to use it, which wasn't ideal during winter, which is the period they primarily wanted to use it. It also meant leaving the window open overnight if you wanted to use it on a timer on cheap rate electricity, an invitation to burglars. At one time there was even a company selling a stupid filter to go on the end of the vent hose to collect the lint and condensed water so you could vent it indoors! A neighbour had one on her's, which was in a lean to conservatory and of course the dryer would fill the room with steam.
Heat pump dryers now dominate the UK market because of their lower running cost and even air cooled condenser dryers have slightly better efficiency ratings than vented, so nowadays vented dryer are very much becoming a niche product. Currently one major UK appliance retailer has 118 models of heat pump dryers for sale, 60 condenser ones, and only 6 vented. Another only carries 3 vented machines.
I think in the UK, the main reason for the existence of condenser dryers and their popularity over vented, was most houses were brick and block construction. A condenser dryer can go anywhere there's a convenient socket, but putting a 4" vent hole in wasn't an easy job, So most people who bought a vented dryer would have it near a window and shove the vent hose out of the open window when they wanted to use it, which wasn't ideal during winter, which is the period they primarily wanted to use it. It also meant leaving the window open overnight if you wanted to use it on a timer on cheap rate electricity, an invitation to burglars. At one time there was even a company selling a stupid filter to go on the end of the vent hose to collect the lint and condensed water so you could vent it indoors! A neighbour had one on her's, which was in a lean to conservatory and of course the dryer would fill the room with steam.
Heat pump dryers now dominate the UK market because of their lower running cost and even air cooled condenser dryers have slightly better efficiency ratings than vented, so nowadays vented dryer are very much becoming a niche product. Currently one major UK appliance retailer has 118 models of heat pump dryers for sale, 60 condenser ones, and only 6 vented. Another only carries 3 vented machines.
