Does anyone know how old the dishwasher in this ad may be or what the corresponding KA model number would be?
ISE Dishwasher
- Thread starter rp2813
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I'll bite...
I just installed an ISE Classic Supreme a few weeks ago.
The one I picked up at Habitat Re-store for $25 looked like it was really low mileage. Clean interior, no chips in the porcelain, no dents or scratches in the front panels, racks in good condition and no wobble in the hydro-sweep. Underside looked as if you just took it out of the box. I found a sticker on the frame indicating a date of 10-87. I'm pretty sure it would be a KD21 series.
It runs extremely well. No issues what so ever. It replaces for now a five? year old WP Gold QS. Ithink it is just as quiet as the WP. I really wanted something KA, I just hadn't found anything this nice.
Features, Automatic Water Heating, cycles Pots/Pans, Normal, Light, Rinse Hold, option for No Heat Dry. Has forced air dry using the water heater for heat source.
Sorry I don't have pics.
Hope this helps. Bill
I just installed an ISE Classic Supreme a few weeks ago.
The one I picked up at Habitat Re-store for $25 looked like it was really low mileage. Clean interior, no chips in the porcelain, no dents or scratches in the front panels, racks in good condition and no wobble in the hydro-sweep. Underside looked as if you just took it out of the box. I found a sticker on the frame indicating a date of 10-87. I'm pretty sure it would be a KD21 series.
It runs extremely well. No issues what so ever. It replaces for now a five? year old WP Gold QS. Ithink it is just as quiet as the WP. I really wanted something KA, I just hadn't found anything this nice.
Features, Automatic Water Heating, cycles Pots/Pans, Normal, Light, Rinse Hold, option for No Heat Dry. Has forced air dry using the water heater for heat source.
Sorry I don't have pics.
Hope this helps. Bill
Thanks Bill. After discussing the machine with my local dishwasher expert, it sounds like ISE versions of KA's can't be any newer than early 90's vintage. Yours sounds like it's an ISE badged KDI-21, which is the same KA model we bought new when we remodeled the kitchen at our other house. Does yours have a timer knob?
I e-mailed the seller but he has not responded. I'll call him tomorrow. I may have to go look at the machine myself and decide on the spot. "Classic Supreme" sounds like a TOL model for ISE. I wonder if Hobart wouldn't let Superbas be re-badged as ISE machines. I like the idea that ISE is an uncommon badge, but with a true KA workhorse behind it.
One concern I have is that it may be a portable model, based on his reason for unloading it.[this post was last edited: 12/14/2010-03:09]
I e-mailed the seller but he has not responded. I'll call him tomorrow. I may have to go look at the machine myself and decide on the spot. "Classic Supreme" sounds like a TOL model for ISE. I wonder if Hobart wouldn't let Superbas be re-badged as ISE machines. I like the idea that ISE is an uncommon badge, but with a true KA workhorse behind it.
One concern I have is that it may be a portable model, based on his reason for unloading it.[this post was last edited: 12/14/2010-03:09]
I Bought It
Nice machine, no timer knob, a bank of indicator lights and adjustable top rack, so I think it's the Superba of ISE's.
More on this after I get help to unload it out of the wagon.
Nice machine, no timer knob, a bank of indicator lights and adjustable top rack, so I think it's the Superba of ISE's.
More on this after I get help to unload it out of the wagon.
More Info:
Model: CLSUP-5
Panel Indicator Lights (L to R):
Wash, Rinse, Dry, Clean
Buttons (black, not chrome):
Pots/Pans, Normal, Light (space) Rinse/Hold, Energy Saver Wash, Energy Saver Dry, Cancel
Additional Panel Verbiage:
"Automatic Water Heating" and "Quiet System"
Pix to come.
Model: CLSUP-5
Panel Indicator Lights (L to R):
Wash, Rinse, Dry, Clean
Buttons (black, not chrome):
Pots/Pans, Normal, Light (space) Rinse/Hold, Energy Saver Wash, Energy Saver Dry, Cancel
Additional Panel Verbiage:
"Automatic Water Heating" and "Quiet System"
Pix to come.
Congrats...
Ralph, sounds like your new ISE may be newer than mine, maybe a KD22 series? Mine has just the first 3 indicator lights and just a No Heat Dry button and the buttons are chrome. No timer knob either.
Don't try to move it yourself like I did. It is heavy. My nephew helped me get it out of the van and into the basement. When I installed it, moving the Whirlpool to the basement was no problem, rollers in place of legs on the backside and it was mostly plastic. However, getting the ISE up the stairs by myself was a real challenge even with a hand cart. It's all metal and porcelain!
I read the story of ISE dishwasher timeline somewhere but can't find it. It was early 90's when Whirlpool started charging ISE more for the dishwashers and so it just wasn't economically feasible for ISE to continue selling their version of KA. Maybe the KD22 or 23 series was the last, I'm not sure.
Anyway, I hope yours works well for you.
Bill
Ralph, sounds like your new ISE may be newer than mine, maybe a KD22 series? Mine has just the first 3 indicator lights and just a No Heat Dry button and the buttons are chrome. No timer knob either.
Don't try to move it yourself like I did. It is heavy. My nephew helped me get it out of the van and into the basement. When I installed it, moving the Whirlpool to the basement was no problem, rollers in place of legs on the backside and it was mostly plastic. However, getting the ISE up the stairs by myself was a real challenge even with a hand cart. It's all metal and porcelain!
I read the story of ISE dishwasher timeline somewhere but can't find it. It was early 90's when Whirlpool started charging ISE more for the dishwashers and so it just wasn't economically feasible for ISE to continue selling their version of KA. Maybe the KD22 or 23 series was the last, I'm not sure.
Anyway, I hope yours works well for you.
Bill
I have a ISE Classic Supreme dishwasher that is my daily driver in San Francisco. I purchased the dishwasher in 1988 and has been in continuous use. It was the top of the line model back then with four push button cycles with three options and automatic heating. It has the lift latch like the KitchenAid dishwashers and styling like the Imperial model of the KitchenAid. It's been a great dishwasher but not as quiet as the new machines today.
The latch on mine slides from side to side. That's one big exterior difference in my ISE compared to a KA. Perhaps this has something to do with Whirlpool trying to make the ISE machines look less like KA clones in an attempt to avoid legal issues.
I'm guessing that the latching mechanism on mine makes it a later (perhaps close to the last?) ISE model.
I'm guessing that the latching mechanism on mine makes it a later (perhaps close to the last?) ISE model.
The Searchilator produced this picture of a 1987 model.
One less indicator light (I'm guessing the "clean" one) and one less button (perhaps an "energy saver" one). Buttons appear to be the same shape as on a 20-series KA, which seems about right for 1987.
Buttons on mine are not on the lower edge of the panel but are instead where the verbiage appears on the one pictured, and don't look like the buttons on any KA machine I've ever seen.
One less indicator light (I'm guessing the "clean" one) and one less button (perhaps an "energy saver" one). Buttons appear to be the same shape as on a 20-series KA, which seems about right for 1987.
Buttons on mine are not on the lower edge of the panel but are instead where the verbiage appears on the one pictured, and don't look like the buttons on any KA machine I've ever seen.
My ISE looks exactly like the pic but in another color. Panels are reversible. The slide latch is the latter model before they ended production.
Sounds like one of those KDI models with the rapid-advance timer and adjustable top rack. Energy Saver Wash would turn off the water heating function. The BOL of the 22 or 23 had that feature of both wash & dry energy saver functions. On these machines, the water heats while circulation continues. The water heatingt function can extend the main wash by up to 15 minutes if needed. Just don't trash the Thermadore. let Nate have it rather than send it to the crusher.
Thermador
Probably not, unfortunately.
Bob, we're already using the '69 Frigidaire as a tree stand
David has told me under no uncertain terms that the Superba 21 doesn't get replaced, so unless I start stacking, I think we'll have to re-route the Thermador.
Ralph, sounds like you may have found a 22-series Superba the roundabout way after all ;-)
Probably not, unfortunately.
Bob, we're already using the '69 Frigidaire as a tree stand
David has told me under no uncertain terms that the Superba 21 doesn't get replaced, so unless I start stacking, I think we'll have to re-route the Thermador.Ralph, sounds like you may have found a 22-series Superba the roundabout way after all ;-)
Only a Superba equivalent would have the Sani Rinse option. That was reseerved only for superbas. That was one of the key differentiators for the Patrician vs. the Superba.
Bob
I will do my best to find the Thermador a new home. It's not crusher fodder just yet!
As I mentioned to another member, it strikes me that Norge fans would present the ideal Thermador demographic. ;-) Nate, are you sure you don't want to send your next door neighbors packing in pursuit of peace and quiet? For all involved? LOL!
And yippeee! I found my 22 series, which is not what I was expecting, but when I had my first look at this ISE, it crossed my mind that the possibility existed for it to be of 22 vintage. However, the detergent cups and float are Hobart blue, while the rinse aid filler is white. I presume 22 series KA's have white versions of all of those items.
I presumed that the sani-cycle was a KA exclusive when I didn't see it on the ISE. So I apparently have a Patrician on my hands. How cool is that?
Can any of the interior elements of the KDS-20 out in my garage be used with my new ISE? Since I haven't managed to find anyone who wants the 20, I might as well strip it for any usable parts before trashing it.
I will do my best to find the Thermador a new home. It's not crusher fodder just yet!
As I mentioned to another member, it strikes me that Norge fans would present the ideal Thermador demographic. ;-) Nate, are you sure you don't want to send your next door neighbors packing in pursuit of peace and quiet? For all involved? LOL!
And yippeee! I found my 22 series, which is not what I was expecting, but when I had my first look at this ISE, it crossed my mind that the possibility existed for it to be of 22 vintage. However, the detergent cups and float are Hobart blue, while the rinse aid filler is white. I presume 22 series KA's have white versions of all of those items.
I presumed that the sani-cycle was a KA exclusive when I didn't see it on the ISE. So I apparently have a Patrician on my hands. How cool is that?
Can any of the interior elements of the KDS-20 out in my garage be used with my new ISE? Since I haven't managed to find anyone who wants the 20, I might as well strip it for any usable parts before trashing it.
stevet
Well-known member
Here is a link that will clear things up
Check this court summary document to find out what went on when the sale of KA to WP was challenged by WCI and Magic Chef.
It will explain how ISE came to build the 20 series machines and then what was probably the 22 series and ended production with the 23 series derivative.
The post 20 series ISE's were nice looking machines with the sliding handle. I was told that it cost ISE $250,000 to rfedesign and impliment that handle system and when they finally stopped selling the machines, it was because WP was now building them and wanted too much for each unit.
The final series for them was a clone of the 213 series K/A's with the WP power module pump.
Ralph, the 20 series tank was the last of the full frame tanks, it had the hot air blower/dryer where the ISE's had the plastic blower and the water heat, drying element in the tank above the sump.
I have never seen a breakdown for the 20 derivative above, nor a parts breakdown. What was the actual model number anyway?
Most of the physical and mechanical parts like the door and panels and electical parts like the float and fill valve with sub into the newer machine, but the pump on the 20 was the unitdirectional pump motor with the drain solenoid, though I have to say I remember reading somewhere that they did have a limited number of them with reversing motors or at least motors with start relays. Not too sure on that. I am sure others here can verify that.
Your machine will clean very well regardless of the pump it has, thow I am much more partial to the Kitchenaid pump because of the real metal disposer in the pump. But the Powermodule is no slouch.
Check the link and see what it says. I thought it was an interesting read.
Check this court summary document to find out what went on when the sale of KA to WP was challenged by WCI and Magic Chef.
It will explain how ISE came to build the 20 series machines and then what was probably the 22 series and ended production with the 23 series derivative.
The post 20 series ISE's were nice looking machines with the sliding handle. I was told that it cost ISE $250,000 to rfedesign and impliment that handle system and when they finally stopped selling the machines, it was because WP was now building them and wanted too much for each unit.
The final series for them was a clone of the 213 series K/A's with the WP power module pump.
Ralph, the 20 series tank was the last of the full frame tanks, it had the hot air blower/dryer where the ISE's had the plastic blower and the water heat, drying element in the tank above the sump.
I have never seen a breakdown for the 20 derivative above, nor a parts breakdown. What was the actual model number anyway?
Most of the physical and mechanical parts like the door and panels and electical parts like the float and fill valve with sub into the newer machine, but the pump on the 20 was the unitdirectional pump motor with the drain solenoid, though I have to say I remember reading somewhere that they did have a limited number of them with reversing motors or at least motors with start relays. Not too sure on that. I am sure others here can verify that.
Your machine will clean very well regardless of the pump it has, thow I am much more partial to the Kitchenaid pump because of the real metal disposer in the pump. But the Powermodule is no slouch.
Check the link and see what it says. I thought it was an interesting read.
Thanks for all of the good information, Steve. I will take a closer look at things you have suggested. Perhaps the pictures I'm going to post below will help with positive identification.
I don't know what the model number is on the 20-derivative in the picture above.
I didn't take a picture of the model number tag on mine, but will do that and post here tomorrow.
[this post was last edited: 12/15/2010-00:33]
I don't know what the model number is on the 20-derivative in the picture above.
I didn't take a picture of the model number tag on mine, but will do that and post here tomorrow.
[this post was last edited: 12/15/2010-00:33]
Pictures!
Full frontal.
Apologies for the over-exposures. I'm having trouble with the camera in non-flash mode, and flash is overkill.
This machine will clean up very nicely, and will look sharp with stainless panel inserts.
[this post was last edited: 12/14/2010-23:53]
Full frontal.
Apologies for the over-exposures. I'm having trouble with the camera in non-flash mode, and flash is overkill.
This machine will clean up very nicely, and will look sharp with stainless panel inserts.
[this post was last edited: 12/14/2010-23:53]
Panel left. I don't think those little green lights are going to confuse anyone (part of an agreement cited in the WCI/MC lawsuit).
[this post was last edited: 12/14/2010-23:33]
[this post was last edited: 12/14/2010-23:33]
