Issues with China made items - A rant of sorts!

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randycmaynard

Well-known member
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Oct 7, 2009
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Saw the China ref in the Kitchenaid mixer thread and wondered how many of you, when buying new or newer, look specifically for American made or some place other than China or other Asian countries? I specifically look for American made and I get even more frustrated around the holiday season (Christmas to be specific) as I collect older tree ornaments and you can hardly find anything that is not made in China - even the new Shiny Brite retro remakes are made in China.... what a disgrace! I have original Shiny Brite ornaments that my mother had and all were the vintage 40s-60s era and all were American made!

I sent an email to the folks making the Shiny Brite retro ornaments and basically blasted them for having those made in China when the originals, an American Christmas tradition, were made here in America!! Of course I didn't get a response which is what I expected - maybe more of us should send a little note to them and others about this and other issues - be it appliances, Christmas ornaments etc.

Okay, time for comments, thoughts, suggestions.... snide remarks, #$&^%&(@#! or whatever.

randyc
Knoxville,TN
 
Personally

I really do not worry in the slightest about where a product is made. All I'm interested in is that I get the best value for money I can afford, and that the product is made in a safe and fair working environment and that it is not at all dangerous.

Now ofcourse some products made in developing countries are produced using slave labour, but this is not a rule. Some of these products may contain dangerous chemicals or be poorly made or what have you, but again, not all of them.

It is important to remember that products that are/were made in developed nations can also suffer from these problems.

I have heard that a number of products made in the USA are made using prison labour (in particular in the appliance industry!), forced to work long hours with few or no breaks in unsanitary/uncomfortable conditions with no pay. I'm sure similar situations exist in many other developed nations too.

So to me the "made in ****" has no importance, I'd have to know about the conditions under which the product was made and could not just make statements such as "I will not buy products made in country X or country Y because they use slave labour or the products made there are inferior etc etc" as it is impossible to make such claims for everything made in a certain place.

Those are just my feelings on the matter anyway.

Matt
 
i avoid chicom whenever possible and do try to buy american
when possible,when stores sell chicom,not only do they undercut
the price of non-chicom item,they usually make a huge markup
on the crap! Problem has gotten really bad after about 2002
-a lot of stuff that was made in USA in 2002,said made in china
by 2004,also not much variety with foreign goods anymore,hard
to find anything from italy,france,japan,etc.-all imports seem
to be chinese-and then there is the lead in toys,faulty tires,
rancid drywall sheets,faulty extension cords,etc.etc.etc...
i could go on and on with this subject...
 
Not what I want to buy but what I am FORCED to buy

I buy well over a million dollars of linen each year. Most was made in the us, Until 6 or 8 years ago. Now there are almost no mills here and the major suppliers now only stock imported goods. From anywhere you can think of. We have gotten scrubs made in Cambodia, Turkey, Iran, Iraq. Mexico ect.. the same for most of the terri and flatwork. Not my choice at all but what we have to accept if we want linen. I dont like it at all but ALL the suppliers are doing the same thing on most of the goods I buy.
 
I could rant about this issue for days--perhaps even make it a career! When you come from a blue-collar family mostly employed in manufacturing as I have, you quickly understand how global trade has become a political issue rather than one designed to put people back to work and help reduce poverty. Instead, it has done just the opposite.

Randy, contact me offline sometime! I'd love to talk about this subject (and your interest in appliances, of course) with you!

Rob
 
The fix for what is destroying America's manufacturing sector is simple: impose a 50% tariff on most imported goods, impose significant tax penalties on U.S. corporations who derive income from foreign production, and otherwise eliminate the financial incentives to export American jobs.

Of course consumers will wind up paying this extra cost, but it's the only way to save what's left of our manufacturing sector. Unless we do this, we'll all wind up flipping hamburgers and cleaning badpans for a living.
 
I have heard that a number of products made in the USA are m

(in particular in the appliance industry!), forced to work long hours with few or no breaks in unsanitary/uncomfortable conditions with no pay. I'm sure similar situations exist in many other developed nations too.

Good!

Perhaps such offenders wont repeat the offence or an offence again.

Prison is for punishment and not to be liked with cushy days or relaxation and god knows how many priviledges even us whom work cant afford.

Crazy do gooders have ruined this country by giving prisoners rights that they should not have had. Break the law which is there for the good of a nation and you should have all rights taken away.
 
Its a Small World After All

We, the Americans who reside in the Uninted States of America have no one to blame but ourselves. It was the American shopper who refused to pay the higher cost of made in USA goods, pressured stores to stock lower priced inventory, chased every sale and coupon to the cheapest price and drove many stores out of business. Pay what it costs to support unionized American workers who must work in factories that comply with all environmental and OSHA strictures, pay back China the money they loaned us when we tanked the world economy and you'll have all the baubles you want to hang on your politically correct holiday tree. We should all be on our knees thatnking the Universe for China, the steadying force in the world. Trust me, they'll save us again when the little countries start spitting their homemade nukes at each other.
 
And likewise in Oz ...

Much the same thing happened with our manufacturing industries, starting in the mid-'80s. People don't think about the consequences of buying the cheaper/est product. They only see that they can have more toys per dollar. Then when they lose their jobs, they wonder why. The theory says they'll move up into different work requiring different skills, however I don't fully believe that. With respect, somebody who was only capable of working on an assembly line isn't going to end up in a white-collar job. As a nation, we should have a responsibility to provide work for all our citizens, dullest to brightest, yet most of the manual work is long gone.

I also feel the country is now in a position where it has lost the ability to design and manufacture pretty much anything. We still have an auto and steel industry, but I suspect heavily subsidised. Heaven knows what would happen to us (or any other western nation) if for some reason China decided to stop supplying goods.
 
The UNIONS can share a LOT of the blame too!

It is always them that scream for more money for our underpaid workers. Poor little dears only have 20 holidays a year and 5 weeks vacation. When they get it prices have to go up . Then when its contract is up they scream for more and prices have to go up some more..
 
Rob

Do you think these workers are really going to give a damn if they are making a quality product or not? There really isn't much of an incentive to if you arent being paid, and are being overworked in uncomfortable conditions.

As for this country being ruined, well, global economic crisis aside, I'm hard pushed to think of a time when things have been any better. Ofcourse the scare tactics used by the right wing press have lead most people to think this country is falling apart, but when you actually look at facts and statistics, it's all one big myth. Anyway, that's a whole other debate, and I do not particularly wish to get into it.

Matt
 
Turned out to be an interesting thread......

Thanks for the diverse views, left wing, right wing, libs, neo-cons, moderate, conservative, center - one big happy family and I'll take all the vintage american made baubles I can get for my holiday tree(s) - lol!! Great stuff guys - never a dull moment........
 
Just to ratchett it up just a tad.....

Those baubles go on a Christmas tree.... holiday tree? Land o goshen.... who ever heard of such? LOL! Sorry for the southern corn... couldn't resist! Thanks again guys!
 
More made here than you may think

I'm currently in the process of totally renovating my house, and am buying American made products whenever possible. My goal is to buy quality approaching what was in the house when it was originally built in 1953. You are much more likely to find non Chinese items if you stay out of the following 4 stores: Wal-Mart, Target, Home Depot & Lowes. All the following items I've purchased or will be purchasing in the near future are of U.S. origin -

Windows - Warroad, MN
Doors & Frames - Milan, TN & Iowa
Roofing - Memphis, TN
Stone - Chilton, WI
Siding - Pulaski, VA
Bathroom fixtures - Kohler, WI (except shower base from Canada)
Ceramic Tile - Olean, NY & Gettysburg, PA
Cabinets - Grabill, IN
Kitchen sink & top - Franklin Park, IL
Electric panelboards - Sumter, SC & Lincoln, IL
Dishwasher - Findlay, OH
Refrigerator - Amana, IA
Light fixtures - Portland, OR

The carpet, sewer & water pipe, door hardware, electrical switchs & receptacles, and many other items are made in various U.S. locations. Some brands offer both imported & U.S. made versions of the same item. The domestic version is more likely to be found in supply places specializing in a particular product line, i.e. plumbing supply, electrical supply, etc., rather than the big box type stores. The prices overall were about the same.

One item that is imported is the kitchen floor, linoleum from Germany. It is a very high quality product, and no North American based source.
 
Tom, add KMart to your list of stores to steer clear of. I've never seen another department store with such a high percentage of Chinese-made garbage. Looks to be even a higher % than Wally World.
 
I can't hardly find anything worth buying at the major stores
just about everything i pick up is chinese crap,last year
even visegrip went chicom(you can still find some of the US
ones left over though-check the origin)I'M sure the stores
get a higer markup on the chinese versions.
There are a lot more problems and recalls etc. with chinese
goods than the news covers-seems china must have a pretty
good lobby to keep a lot of this under wraps...
 
I have found ...

that American made products today are usually quite inferior to the overseas made products. But when you figure in the labor costs to not only build the unit you are buying (say, a stereo) but to pay the labor costs for building the parts to build the unit, and the parts to build the parts to build the .... well, you get the drift. A pocket radio would cost $4.65 from China, and $3.941 if made in America. In a sense, we've screwed ourselves in an attempt to be fair to all.
 
Thanks again - good to see the various places

to find good quality American made products - this is one way to do ourselves some good and yes the price may be higher but, the saying "you get what you pay for" is very true however, not everything is higher priced some things are quite competetive in pricing without compromised quality.

Keep listing the places to find the good quality American made products and places to avoid as well - really appreciate it.... this is probably far more helpful than ranting over it anyway though I get plenty frustrated trying to find things made here sometimes.
 
Not so with every American made product.......

A great many things made here are far superior to the overseas stuff if talking of things made in China or other Asian countries. A good number of European countries turn out quaility equal to the best we have here and are ligit competition.

Besides, why do we always have to try to be fair to everyone? It sure does not come back the other way to us! We need to take this back - it's more fair to put out quailty products than to put out junk that no one wants and that won't last longer than 30 seconds after opening the package! To use a phrase from the past (modified a little) anything they can do we can do better, far better and we should!
 
A little dated, but somehow strangely relevant

Now that we are all heavily invested in the Chinese economy we better keep buying the stuff that they make.

 
Pay what it costs to support unionized American workers

Some will argue that it's these "workers" and their unions that drove the prices up so that the consumers had to, as it was put, "refuse to pay the higher cost of made in USA goods, pressure stores to stock lower priced inventory, chase every sale and coupon to the cheapest price."

I agree with Hoover 1100: "I'm interested in is that I get the best value for money I can afford." I buy and support American whenever I can, but not always (as I sit here in my Hanes from the Dominican Republic, Wranglers from Mexico, Russel Athletic T made in El Salvador, and New Balance sneakers made in.... wait for it.... China. Maybe my sox were made here?).

Randy, we have a LOT of the earlier Shiny Brite ornaments. Went on a little spree one February during the sales in Adamstown, PA!

Chuck
 
Let's keep in mind that not all U.S. companies are unionized these days. There are a great deal of smaller, privately-held companies that manufacture in this country and do not need a union to keep their workers happy and provide them with decent wages and benefits. But, that's a different story in and of itself.

I see different problems--ones that can't be pinned solely on unions. A huge part of the problem lies in the core values of corporate stakeholders, whether it'd be those of stockholders, management, or anyone else with a vested interest in a company's performance. More often than not, we see profit and personal gain (or should I say "good old material greed") at the forefront of their efforts. That pressure undoubtedly trickles down through the organization to those on the factory floor. The next thing we know, one process or assembly line disappears to cut costs, then another, and another, until the entire factory is shut down. Take that a step further with all the lobbyists that put the screws to Congress and state legislatures to impose trade agreements (GATT, NAFTA, CAFTA, SAFTA, etc.), environmental laws and regulations, tax laws, and employment laws that do not allow a level playing field for our companies. Where we as ordinary, working class citizens don't speak up about all this, we can be certain these rich lobbyists will.
 
this is huge with me.

This is a huge issue with me. I try to buy US manufactured products whenever possible. If I can't buy US, I buy first world. If I can't buy first world, I will reluctantly consider buying China. But I try to avoid that whenever possible.

I just don't believe that Chinese goods are safe. Also, they are the worst human rights abuser in the world; have the worst environmental record in the world; and, frankly, they should stop buying US debt which would force our darned government to spend less.

EVERY TIME I find a product that I am replacing that used to be US made and is now China made I write them a letter saying I will never buy their products again because they have outsourced, and I send it to the CEO.

(On the Pressure Cooker front, I'm returning my Fissler, which I believe to be defective, and buying a Kuhn Rikon, because Presto has sold out to China).

Hunter
 
They Have Great Stuff

I am partnered with a Chinese genetleman who has had factories in China which later moved to Vietnam when the cost of government services became too great to be competetive. Chinese workers are protected by versions of medical, injury, unemployment, environmental and retirement pensions. Many products the Chinese buy and use are of very good quality. Again I say it is the consumer who is totally to blame. The Chinese items cost more in China because the Chinese merchant requires a higher spec. It is the importer of Chinese products who has lower specs and as a result we get cheaper goods. Remember the appliance stores of the 70's with someone's name on it? Rememeber the drugstore with someone's name on it? Try a grocery store, lumber yard and plumber that all had names of local residents proudly displayed. Stores like, Earnst, Pay-n-Pak, Home Depor, Lowes, Sears, Best Buy, Home Depot, Meijers, Fred Meyer, Wal-Mart, Costco, Target and K-Mart. You, memebers of your family, your friends, your co-workers are the ones that caused this. Chasing coupons and sales, demanding products and food delievered cheaply year round going to big box stores drove retailers out of the American market. Sorry bunch of cheap assed, throw away consumers. It only gets worse as our government adds more and more costly laws, requirements and fees. How many of us owned a business at one time and learned going under the table was about the only way to make a living. It is us, me, you and everyone else in America that delivered this sad time in our life.
 
One thing I know for sure is

that I spend very little, if any, time in Wal-Mart, don't fool with K-Mart, Target gets some but not much. I prefer to look for the local places and purposely seek out quality - especially the American made products.
 
This is a complex issue . . .

I buy Chinese made products, and find some of them to be well made, while some aren't. My Olympus SLR camera was made in China, as were some of the lenses. My favorite and best lens is Japanese, but it cost more than the camera body. The point is that the Chinese can make as good quality as anyone else if they have the budget, but really cheap stuff is really cheap stuff no matter where it's made. China does need to allow the value of the yuan to float. They've undervalued it too much for too long, and this isn't good for anyone.

A few observations:

-Simple and very inexpensive items should be made in third world countries. It costs too much to make them elsewhere, and the foreign exchange helps raise the living standards of those who need it most.

-Rampant protectionism isn't the way to revitalize American manufacturing. Countries that go this route end up with too many isolated industries that can't compete on a worldwide basis. The former Eastern bloc is a great example of this: when the iron curtain fell most all their home-grown industries quickly failed and the factories were bought by multinationals. Why? Because their products were mostly crappy, poorly designed and poorly made. The manufacturers lasted for decades in that environment because there was no outside competition.

Instead, take a look at Germany and Japan; their labor is expensive, often more so than American labor, but their products are famed worldwide for being well designed and made, and as such sell for a premium which earns lots of foreign exchange for them.

-To a large degree incompetant management is why our manufacturing sector isn't where Germany and Japan are. Go back to 1970 and look at where BMW was at the time. A very small company with very little name recognition in the US, they had a new line of big six-cylinder cars, pretty luxurious by European standards but hardly so by American standards. They were very nicely built however and the company always put a premium on driving dynamics with good suspension, steering, and brakes. Over here Ford had just introduced a redesigned Lincoln which abandoned both the '60s unit body construction and the Lincoln engines, so a Lincoln could be made with Ford/Mercury components. Over at GM Cadillac was busy cheapening their cars too for '71. Neither could be bothered to install four wheel disc brakes or independant suspension like the BMW, or precise steering. For the next 25 years all three companies continued on their same paths, with Ford and GM integrating more parts for their upper level makes with their popularly priced brands. BMW kept making sophisticated cars that drove well and gradually introduced larger V-8 and V-12 engines, better a/c, and other things Americans insist on.

Today when I drive around through wealthy neighborhoods I hardly ever see a Cadillac or Lincoln sedan, but E and S-class Mercedes are everywhere, along with 5 and 7-series BMWs, lots of big Lexuses, and the odd Bentley. Simply put, Cadillac and Lincoln lack the credibility to sell much in the over $50,000 market, while wealthy people are happy to part with $80,000-$90,000 for the high-end German and Japanese stuff because they've never forgotten that the customer is likely to see and feel the difference between a mid-range product with extra trim and a true high-end product. The same thing has happened with appliances - why don't we have anything to compete with Miele? It's because American management frequently wants to deal only with really high volume products, but that puts them into competition with foriegn made stuff from countries with cheaper labor, and then of course it's hard to make American products competitive.

Health care is the 700 lb. gorilla in this mess. High health care costs have been a big part of the difficulty of making competitive mid-range products here, and until this is resolved in some manner American companies will be working with an inbuilt disadvantage.
 
certainly.

Certainly it is incompetent management. Look at AT&T -- once one of the best companies on earth, run into the ground merely 12 years after divestiture so they had to split into three again, then finally reduced to being inconsequential, and bought by one of their "Baby Bells."

Healthcare is a 700 pound gorilla - but forcing everyone to buy health insurance isn't the answer. Tort reform, not consuming so much healthcare (I'm fighting a sinus infection and am treating it with saline irrigation NOT by going to the doctor because I consider that a LAST resort not a first. My body can heal itself in most instances). There will be NO resolution as long as Americans want to sue for the simplest things, and want to use a huge amount of medical care that isn't all that necessary. Additionally, _from what I can see from not living there_ a lot of other countries have cheaper healthcare because they don't have incredible interventions -- they concentrate on prevention (eating right, exercise) which reduces really expensive stuff like low birth rate babies (good prenatal care and good lifestyle stuff, and, frankly, perhaps having kids at an earlier age), and prevention of heart disease and cancer (exercise, good diet, minimize smoking).

There is no magic bullet.
 
Good point, Hunter. I appreciate your common sense approach and I'm glad you brought up the issues of tort and healthcare reform. Those will destroy us, too, if not dealt with sensibly.
 
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