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launderess

launderess

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Awhile back posted one had acquired a Denon DP-30L in near mint condition that was being sent to the rubbish from a building next door. Up until now the unit has sat sitting gathering dust because one's newest receiver does not have phono inputs. Well those conditions on the ground changed today.

A good friend is moving out of our building to head out West and is getting shot of some things. I therefore acquired a set of speakers in excellent condition (Awia) soooo hauled out the old JVC receiver, connected speakers, turntable and everything WORKS!

Went hunting in closets for our old "LPs" that had been gathering dust since the 1980's or so and am going to make the neighbors and probably the area very angry!

launderess++7-19-2013-17-11-9.jpg
 
Nice find, Launderess! The anti-skating setting is probably pretty close to where it should be. I'd be more concerned with the condition of the stylus. A bad needle can ruin vinyl. Clean the stylus with a lightly dampened soft brush---something like the brush that used to come with a child's watercolor set.

The cartridge appears to be off-center--- too far to the right---but I have never had a Denon, so can't speak to how the cartridge should be aligned at the end of the tone arm.

Add the vinyl of your choice and rock out!
 
For Me Doc?

Oh you darling! Thanks all to pieces!

Thought one would start off slow with the OBC of "La Cage aux Folles" then work up to "Dreamgirls" then maybe a bit of "Grease" (original film cast recording, not OBC).

Later on tonight when quiet will go for the classical stuff like Mozart! *LOL*
 
That's the exact same turntable I've had since the late 1970's. It's excellent. The only problem I've had is that the neon bulb for the strobe burnt out. I replaced it with a standard neon bulb from an electronics shop - works fine again. You may notice the speed may vary a bit, still, though. I think it has to do with varying line voltages. But overall it's a great turntable. Very easy on vinyl, since the arm pickup at the end of the record is very gentle.

As far as antiskating goes, I frankly forget how one is supposed to adjust that. I just leave it where it was when I dialed it in way back when. I have a collection of cartridges. Audio Technica Signet, to be specific. Various metal alloys for the arm that holds the diamond. For a while I could tell the difference.

There's a special carbon fiber stylus brush I use to clean the needle. It's got a very short, stiff nap. Works great. Also have a special carbon fiber record dust brush. That also works great.

Anyway, you scored with that turntable. Enjoy it.
 
Thanks Sudsmaster

Am going to have and sort out some LP cleaning supplies and such, but for today was that happy playing tunes one hasn't heard since the last time on had a phonograph player, back at my parents house in my old bedroom.

Especially loved hearing Jane Oliver again, forgotten how much her music moved one. Also remember how my "collection" came to be so large; can anyone say "Columbia House"? *LOL* For tapes and albums you couldn't beat their offers. Well long as you stayed ahead of their game anyway.

Read on a few audiophile websites how to work the thing and it is that simple; you place the needle arm over where you want to start playing, then hit either "45" or "33", arm lowers and music plays. At the end of the recording arm will raise itself, all one has to do is move it back into the holder.

Did use the speed adjuster to get my "33s" sounding properly and that pretty much was all. Have noticed when using the "auto play" such as noted above the needle skips a bit from the start of the LP. Not sure if one needs to adjust the "skating" knob or clean the LPs. It could also be one has the arm too far away from the start edge of the record.

Sad thing for me is there isn't room in the entertainment center to set things up permanently. So simply sacked everything up (with some deep folds of paper between the dust cover top and speakers), and moved over to a resting spot (chair). The speakers are smallish bookshelf types so things are rather compact. Will have to move the whole thing back to the dining room table if one wishes to play LPs but don't see that happening every day.
 
The tracking force is usually set to what the cartridge manufacturer states. First you will need to look that up on the internet. Look at the cartridge for a name and a number. Then look on the internet for the "specs".

Then follow this procedure:

Set Tracking Force to 0
Set Anti-Skating force to 0

The tonearm should now "float" perfectly level with the platter. If it doesn't, adjust the weight at the back of the tonearm until it does. When it does then:

Set tracking force to manufacturers recommendation
Set the anti-skating force to the same setting as the tracking force.

You're done! Your records should now sound their best.

I'd be more concerned with the condition of the stylus. A bad needle can ruin vinyl.

And that's my biggest concern too!

I also have a copy of the Denon Users Manual pdf which shows the setup, operation, etc. info. I have sent a copy of it to you. [this post was last edited: 7/20/2013-03:22]
 
Isolation

Keep a turntable as isolated as possible from the speakers to prevent feedback, especially if you plan to turn up the volume.
 
One reason why that turntable might not be considered so desirable today is because it's a direct drive unit. Nothing wrong with that, but hip hop dj's (who seem to be the priimary consumers of turntables now) prefer belt drive units because they can be more easily manually slipped back and forth. Probably doing that to a direct drive turntable would burn out the motor fairly quickly. Also, the platter on the Denon is massive (to help smooth out the motor pulses) which also would make slipping the motor more difficult, inertia and all.

The DP30L was in its day a very good TT, but considered mid-range by audiophiles. There were more expensive TT's available back then, but when I was putting together my system at an audiophile store in Berkeley, they recommended the Denon as a decent TT for a reasonable price. It does a pretty good job of isolating external shocks and vibrations but for better isolation one had to spend a lot more $$$ and I'm not sure it was worth it. I got a lot of good playing out of the Denon and it still works fine.

Put a good stylus on it and then find a good direct-to-disk or master LP and enjoy the superlative sound. Beats CD's hands down.
 
That's an age old question that most people will never find an answer for. Which is better, direct drive or belt drive? I think it's 50/50. Some people have their reasons for liking belt drive and others have their reasons for wanting a direct drive table. This argument has been going on with audiophiles since the 70's.
 
I became a big fan of "linear tracking" tonearms in the late 1970s, while in high school. They had straight tone arms which weren't connected at a pivot-point, but rather tracked the grooves in the same way the original master disc was manufactured.

With radial tracking (the traditional kind of tone arm) the stylus/cartridge was in precise tangency to the record groove only at certain points as it arced across a disc. You'd often hear distortion caused by mistracking during the last track of an album. Anyway, linear tracking was supposed to solve all those problems. That turned out not to be completely true, but I was sold on the principle and subsequently owned several linear tracking turntables.

These photos were Googled up on the interweb.

My first was a Harman Karden (top left photo) purchased around 1977. It replaced a Pioneer PL-71. I had the HK through most of college.

Then came the Mitsubishi upright turntable, which was supposed to track even better since gravity wasn't used to track the groove. However, it had its own problems, and was fussy to deal with.

It was replaced by a succession of Bang & Olufsen turntables (bottom left photo). The tracking system on them was excellent, but they weren't well isolated from vibration, and were prone to feedback loops if placed anywhere near the speakers. This was a problem most owners didn't notice, as they weren't playing their music at 110 decibels, as I was, LOL.

My last B&O was accidentally destroyed by my beloved cat, The Swede. She liked to nap on top of the turntable when I was not at home. I was living in a warehouse-style apartment downtown at the time. One day, in her old age, she didn't hear me enter. When I saw her snoozing atop the turntable, I yelled "Swede!" The poor thing leapt up and jumped off the back, catching the turntable with one of her back legs, sending it crashing to the floor.

I now have an inexpensive Sony turntable that only gets used a couple of times a year when I transfer a vinyl disc to CD.[this post was last edited: 7/20/2013-14:34]

frigilux++7-20-2013-14-17-44.jpg
 
DJ Turntables

Rich,

Sorry, but I have to respectively disagree. The turntable of choice for DJ's is the Technics SL-1200 MK2. I've used these spinning in clubs since 1984 and every booth I've been in has always had these. The problem of back cueuing on turntables was solved by using a felt slip-mat between the platter and the record to allow for slippage. Even before the advent of Technics, some radio stations and clubs in the early '70's had tables that had felt glued directly on the table platter. In the early days I suppose it was possible that belt drives existed in these settings but I would guess that synchronous motors with idler wheels were more the norm.

A belt drive turntable would lack the torque and durability to withstand the rigors of professional DJing. The belt would stretch and break and malfunctions in the DJ booth are disastrous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technics_SL-1200
 
Launderess, do you have "Xanadu"?   You will have the whole building rockin!    alr
 
B&O, or Bang & Olufsen is a brand that I was always interested in but a lot of people who know audio always told me "low powered stuff, you're paying for the looks only." But a few years ago I got the bug to try some of it out.

I came across a pair of mint condition S75 speakers on Ebay a few years ago. I decided to give them a try. I was amazed at the quality of the build of the speakers and the sound. Very clear and very well balanced over all. So next I bought a 2900 receiver (one of the flat Stainless steel models) and it too sounded really good. Finally a B&O CD player came along. So I installed the speakers in the den where the AR3a's used to be (I was overhauling them) and they are still there today I like them that much. Plus I only paid $75.00 for the pair! So if you are ever looking for great speakers that sound great and come across a pair of these buy them!

The only problem it seems is that B&O several years ago clamped down on just who can sell B&O parts, usually B&O only. And if you can convince them to sell you a part it's going to be $$$$. This is one reason why you see a lot of B&O turntables on Ebay. Replacement parts are difficult to find at best. But there is a B&O group on Google or Yahoo that has some users that can usually steer you to a part you may need.
 
Bang & Olufsen reminds me of Bose in that real audiophiles chuckle softly when either brand is mentioned. Specs are pretty good; eye-catching design/style is evident; pricing ensures your neighbor's high school-age son won't have it. An audiophile friend used to call it 'show pony' equipment. Not bad, but definitely not in league with the real deal.

I've become a very lazy home audio person the past 12 years---especially after getting an iPod. The convenience of having a couple of Bose SoundDocks and an iPod with 16,000 songs on it trumped putting together an updated central home sound system and handling vinyl and compact discs. All equipment in my music/home theater system is 15-20 years old and starting to fizzle out bit-by-bit. I'll probably wind up getting a flatscreen plasma TV and a Bose home theater system, simply because its easy and sounds pretty good.

In the meantime, I have two SoundDocks, and a Bose Multimedia 3-piece system hooked up to the iMac, so there's decent sound in all the rooms in which I generally listen to music.[this post was last edited: 7/21/2013-09:59]

frigilux++7-21-2013-05-55-22.jpg.png
 
Well, what can I say? The owner's manual for the DP-30L specifically warns about trying to stop the rotation of the turntable while it's powered on. It states there could be permanent damage to the motor.

But you can see I'm no DJ, at least not one who is interested in manually changing the speed of the platter. So the felt cushion sounds plausible, as long as it doesn't put undue strain on the motor.

I remember those linear tracking TT's when they first came out. My audiophile dealer warned against them, however, saying that the technology of the day never did get the tracking more accurate than a standard tonearm could, and often it was worse.

Nowadays I suppose the high tech happening thing is to use a laser beam to read the grooves - which can then filter out scratches and specks of dust. But I don't know if that technology has made it out of the lab into the marketplace.
 
Keep a turntable as isolated as possible from the speakers t

Speakers are only near the turntable when packed away for storage. In that case everything is unplugged. Maybe someday if one ever decides to go with a plasma or newer television and thus require rearranging the entertainment center will find a more permanent arrangement.

As for everything else things sound fine to one's ears. Have no idea what sort of stylus is in atm, and it doesn't seem to be worn. Indeed as one has stated the entire unit seems to have had little use. Given how LPs have mostly vanished from regular home entertainment with the advent of first tapes then CDs can sort of see how this happened.
 
Technics Sl1200-these were also common in some radio stations-when the TT died-they just replaced it with another one.For more cost and at higher budget major market stations Technics SP10,15,25 were common.SP10 were esp common in production studios for transferring the material from the record to a tape cart."Carting" records was common in radio stations at one time-the discs were only used occasionaly to record the song after the cartridge died.I don't know how many endless loop "carts" I have rebuilt and reloaded-if I got a nickel for each one--I'de be rich.The felt platter mats were standard for broadcast TT's as well as DJ ones.Most broadcast TT's already came from the supplier with the felt platter mat.You can turn the DD TT as much as you wish with the power off or the platter electronically "disengaded".The big caution----NEVER turn on a DD TT with its platter removed-this is when you can burn out the motor stator drive circuits.The platter is the "rotor" the large circular magnet on the bottom of the platter-and be sure to put it down where its clean-you don't want metal filings clinging to the platter magnet!When working on these TT's ina radio station-always had a clean place on the bench to put the platter down on.And when you set the platter down left the magnet facing up-cover it with a clean rag or peice of paper.
The laser TT's were breifly marketed to radio stations-but even they didn't want to pay the high cost of the laser macchine.Early laser TT's DID NOT filter out the groove noises-another factor radio stations didn't want the laser TT.The LF noise-rumble or other could trip modulator OL relays in AM transmitters.Harris MW transmitters were esp sensitive to this.And when the OL tripped-the transmitter was breifly off air.
Records are slowly making a comeback to audiophiles-a properly recorded and played back record can be better than a heavily processed CD.
For record cutting lathes-remember the recording lathe DOES NOT have to track a record-it CREATES them from a blank disc.The lathe cuts the grooves for the TT's playback cartridge and arm to track.The straight line arm system for recorders is required for steady,precise operation.Neunman,Skully were common disc recording machines for major market stations and disc recording-even today.Sadly radio sations quit cutting their own discs when the tape cartridge was devised over 40 years ago.Now "carts" are replaced by digital systems-some stations still use the carts,though.The art of disc cutting is just that art and science.Its a fascinating thing.Just wished I could of done it.
 
Interesting, Tolivac.

As I recall, the 33 rpm long play record was made possible by the tactic of varying the width of the grooves according to the signal strength. For loud passages, it's wider. For soft passages, it's narrower. Is that correct? This also seems to give a certain character to the appearance of an LP: you can clearly see the grooves that contain louder passages. Not so much on an older 78, where all the grooves look pretty much the same.
 
The LP-esp the stereo ones-use what engineers call the 45/45 system.The walls of the groove are 45 degrees.One side is for the left channel and the other for the right.Think it was the early LP's that used the mono amplitude system.The 45/45 systems uses a VERTICAL modulation method-Ie up and down.Yes by looking at record gooves-you can tell quiet passages from loud ones-and High frequencies from low ones-esp if you use a magnifier or microscope-disc cutter lathes had a microscope on them so the recordist could examine the grooves and they are cut.And if the recorder was cutting a master disc-one the pressings or "stamper" discs are made from it could be played-but generally wasn't for fear of damage.Some recorders did have a playback arm.The stampers are "negative" so they can't be played.They are used to press the discs that you buy and play.
 
As I understand it the fundametal problem with linear tracking turntables - at least the early ones - is that the tracking must have a way of determining where the groove is. This involved, I imagine, on detecting the slight variation in physical force exerted upon the stylus by the trailing edge of the groove, causing the servo mechanism to advance the "arm" to keep it within the groove. As I understand it, in early systems at least, this introduced noise and error.

Of course I'm assuming that it was a servo system of some sort that controlled the movement of the tracking arm. I can't imagine that the arm could rely solely on groove pressure to move over a linear bearing surface, because the friction from that surface, no matter how fine, would be far more than that in a pivoting tone-arm system.

In any case, I was advised in the late 1970's to avoid the linear tracking turntables because traditional pivoting tonearm systems delivered better sound.
 

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