Matt (Moon1234):
Lets just start by the least complicated of the statements you made. Lets talk about Brooks Brothers. Now, maybe you shouldn't be asking me, I am very far from a person who knows fashions, but, y'know, some of my best friends are and I'd like to think I pay attention to what they say.
Brooks Brothers was never "higher end" clothing. Please pay attention to the clothes and you *will* notice that they are clothes constructed for _durability_, not to look fashionable or good. There's plenty of double lines of sewing and flat-fell seams, for example. The buttons are wrong, very generic. The fabrics were never anything to write home about. They were built to be worn by working class people, not that there's anything wrong with that. But Americans wearing Brooks Brothers can be spotted a mile and half away elsewhere in the world -- same really as the stereotypical "professor type" with the elbow patches, not that there's anything wrong with that or them either. It's just *not* even high end, much less higher end. It's like jeans, you can pay a ton of money (some pairs of jeans go for over 500 bucks, I'm told) and it doesn't matter how much it costs or how good it looks, it will forever read "this person showed up here in jeans". Personally, I *love* jeans and I live in them, but I will *never* ever be mistaken for someone who dressed appropriately or high(er) end. Ever. Brooks Brothers reads "factory floor, maybe an engineer there, but not a manager or an owner". Jeans are durable. High end stuff is frequently very delicate.
There, I said it, I feel better already.
Now to the rest of the post(s).
It must feel good to be the "default", the person who is always catered to. It sure reads that way when I see what you write. Imagine someone said that JC Penny should not sell to Protestants. Or Baptists. Or people who have ever been to Wisconsin, even if they just changed planes there. Wouldn't you be offended? Furious? Even if I *assured* you that I didn't mean to offend anyone, y'know, I just "don't like the 'lifestyle' of the good people of Wisconsin"? Which of those words would all of a sudden stop being merely generic adjectives and become sarcastic adverbs, that intensify all the other words, "good", "people", "Wisconsin"?
No one, you included, likes to be discriminated against. Particularly when none of us (or you) are doing anything criminal, or hurting anyone.
There is *no* earthly reason to object to advertising to non-straight people. None. They are people just like you and me, and I am willing to bet "good money" (10 bucks, so I don't make anyone poor) that every single person who comes to this website, you included, has about 10% of their family be non-straight, which is more often rendered as gay, but I do not want to exclude the bisexuals, of which I am one. So is my husband.
The very minute you claim to be "traditional" or "Christian" as excuses to be homophobic, you trip against more crap you need to deal with.
Lots and lots of people grew up Christian. Many of them *left* the Church when they discovered that that particular version of the church was supposed to mistreat non-straight people. *Other* people who grew up Christian were told in *no* uncertain terms that God loves everyone, and will forgive people who open their hearts and help each other.
Some of us that grew up with the latter just happen to think that some of y'all who spout the antigay crap are not very Christian.
«The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.»
-- Lynn Lavner
I want to make this very clear: first off, the same way that people don't want "Sharia Law" in America, the rest of us take the First Amendment *really* really seriously. The only way to protect the freedom to have a religion is to protect freedom of religion entirely, including the freedom to be agnostic, atheist or belong to The Satanic Temple.
The same way I don't want people who preach any religion (Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, Buddhism, whatever) take over and make us all obey a single religion, I don't want your particular brand of religion winning either. In particular, I don't want people who think we should shun the gay folks winning.
Certain things are said only a few times in the Bible, if we're picking up only one brand of religion. So, yeah, someone said something which can vaguely be interpreted as anti-gay in the Bible, although, if you look at it properly, it meant something different.
But there are things which are said over and over and over again in the Bible. And, if you claim to be Christian, you should have noticed that they are said even more often by Jesus. That we should help others. We are to clothe and feed and house lost travelers and people who came to ask us for help. That whatever we do to the least of his people, you do to him.
What part of that do you really think "don't make cakes or sell flowers to gays, don't let JC Penny's advertise to them" is? Conversely, instead of being railing against people who did *nothing* wrong, which part are you purposely ignoring, like there are people fleeing oppression, death, starvation walking thru the desert no less, how much more Biblical could it get, and people want to call themselves Christian and build a wall to stop the poor from coming to us asking for help? What kind of Christian is your church, the kind that does the work of the devil?
You have *no* right to ask for "traditional" crappy stuff and hurt people who are, just like you, the children of God. Only God has the right to judge them. If they did something wrong, it's between them and God.
Which, incidentally, it's *also* a *major* major bit of news that Jesus was trying to tell us, whatever you do it's between you and God. We are not to be pushy or showy while praying. We can *tell* others that there is news that God loves *everybody* and will forgive people who open their hearts and do the hard job of *helping* (not hindering) others in their path. *But*, and this is a major but, we are to leave people *in peace*, whether or not they want to join in this message. If they are not ready to accept the message or refuse to join, there's something there, I'm spacing out the words, do you remember? Something or another along the lines of "leave them in peace inside their own home and shake the dust off your clothing"? Something like that.
WHAT FREAKING PART OF THAT ARE PEOPLE WHO BOYCOT A BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY DARED TO CATER TO SOMEONE WHO IS JUST SLIGHTLY NOT LIKE THEM, BUT VERY MUCH LIKE THEM IN 99% OF OTHER RESPECTS DOING RIGHT OR FAILING TO DO?
You don't sound Christian.
You sound like a homophobe.
And yeah, in calling you out and making a spectacle of myself, I'm not behaving in a very Christian way either. I apologize to everyone about the religious and political tone of my posting.
But I want you to understand that you have a *lot* of work to do on yourself.
Start asking why do you freaking care, perhaps? Not everyone likes mango ice-cream for example. Or chocolate, or vanilla or strawberry. Do you see people who dislike one of those kinds being so freaking worried that others don't like what they like or don't hate what they hate? How many people go around even thinking about what kind of ice-cream, cake, cheese cake, lasagna, roast beef others like? Who cares, as long as we can all get what we want and avoid what we don't want?
Most gay people that I know of, for example, don't know and don't care one wit about what straight people do in bed. Most truly straight people that I know couldn't care any less about what gay people do in bed. It's none of their business.
So, I ask you, with all due respect, *why* do you freaking care or even pay attention to what flavor of "ice-cream" they are licking? If you _are_ straight, why are you bothered or paying attention to what gay people do? Are you perhaps an itty bitty not straight?
If you believe God is all powerful (and most Christians are supposed to), why do you question God making gay people? Or care? If it were a sin, it wouldn't be any of your business, it's not contagious like measles. It's between them and God.
People are who they are and it's none of your business and no reason to make a business crash and burn because of it. Every time you even think about it, ask yourself what would happen if the message instead had been "let's boycott JC Penny's for selling to islamic people" or "Christian" or "Baptist" or "Protestant". Or people from Wisconsin. Would it be outrageous? Would it be mistreating innocent people? Then don't do it to gay people.
And again, I will apologize once more for the *tone* of my message, but not for the message.
Thank you all for listening.
Peace.
-- Paulo.
h
