KD-12P update

[kenmore71]

Well, I got the 1957-8ish KD-12P on Friday. I finally had some time to play with it tonight and the news is mixed. The good news is that everything does seems to work. There are a few little "drippy" leaks here and there but that's nothing big to deal with. The fill solenoid works, the drain valve solenoid works, the timer seems fine (with one possible caveat). The big problem that I can see is that I fear there is a failing bearing in either the motor or main wash pump. After the main wash cycle things smelled rather "hot" in that electrical sort of way. Then it developed a high pitched whine in the motor that would oscillate a bit. After it pumped out I shut it off. The motor was too hot too touch with the bare hand. The service manual says nothing about oiling the motor so I assume that the bearings are sealed? The fan and heater work just fine. The fan motor is a little "chatty" but that really doesn't concern me much.

Here are the requisite glamour shots!

 

[kenmore71]

The front panel were indeed originally SS. It appears as though the front was spray-painted almond, most likely with canned spray paint. Can this be stipped off of SS chemically?

 

[kenmore71]

Inside with water. Racks are not perfect, but look pretty darned good!

 

[kenmore71]

Silverware basket is not so good on the bottom. But there's the DETERGENT DISPENSER. Those are often lost by this point in history.

 

[kenmore71]

Door seal was replaced. Was this a DIY job?

 

[kenmore71]

Timer detail.

 

[kenmore71]

Door handle detail.

 

[kenmore71]

Start switch and pilot light.

 

[danemodsandy]

Mark:

The Almond paint should come off with Strypeeze or a similar paint remover. Use mineral spirits to wash it off, though, not water. The removal will be much faster, easier and more thorough.

Last time I checked, the door gasket was still available. I think it was at RepairClinic.com.

 

[danemodsandy]

P.S.:

The removal of the paint will leave a residue, even with the use of mineral spirits.

Cameo Stainless Cleaner will remove it. It's a cleanser, available in most decent grocery stores. Use on a wet sponge, working in the direction of the brush marks on the stainless. Cameo leaves a faint powdery residue; this washes off with soap and water.

 

[kenmore71]

Sandy, thanks for the advice! I think this project will need to wait until I can work outside in the shade on a not so hot or windy summer day!

 

[kenmore71]

Also, as basically nice as this machine is, I'm somewhat inclined to see it as a parts donor for those trying to save other KD12s. I like KA and Hobart and all....but a dishwasher THIS old is not really something that really turns my crank. Is that crazy talk?

 

[danemodsandy]

Mark:

Your question gets into personal opinion, so please don't think I'm offering my opinion as some sort of "last word" on the subject.

It's my feeling that vintage appliances from the '60s and before are getting scarce enough that they should be saved if they are at all physically salvageable. There will never be any more of them than there are right now, and at some point, there won't be enough to bring more collectors interested in pre-'70s stuff into the hobby.

Every machine that is broken down for parts is a machine no one can restore and use. Parting out obviously has benefits for other machines, but it also decreases the overall supply of machines. My own feeling is to part out only when a machine is beyond feasible repair, like if a DW has a totally rusted-out sump.

If I had a place for that 12P, I'd be talking to you very seriously about it.

 

[kenmore71]

I ran another cycle this afternoon and had better results. After chatting with a few folks via email and phone I'm not entirely sure what the trouble is. The motor was still getting rather hot to the touch but no where near as hot as last night and there was no funky "hot" electrical smell today. Is it possible that some of that was just loosening things up and blowing out the cobwebs after it has not been used regularly for at least 10 years?

According to all of the service literature, the pump motor is rated at 360 watts. Using an ammeter I am getting about 335 watts with no water and about 750-800 watts under full pumping load. That number seems high to me for this 1/4 hp motor or would that be within normal parameters? Thoughts?

I'm also getting a small leak coming from the stem that goes into the drain valve when the valve is open. By small, I mean probably a tablespoon or 2 for an entire cycle. Is it likely that this will seal itself up after a few weeks of use?

The overflow pressure switch is also wonky. Sometimes it would fill only partway. After I wired around the pressure switch it filled to just about the right level every time. Obviously this is an issue I would need to address if I were going to use it regularly but for testing purposes it's fine. The connecting hose just may need to be taken apart and flushed out.

 

[stevet]

On the hot track!

You seem to be figuring out little by little what may be wrong with the machne and its causes. As far as the hot motor, There exists a possibility that the start relay may be hanging up and keeping the start windings energized while the motor is running. The relay should only energize for a second or two to start the motor in the correct direction. You can test it with your meter and see what the starting current is and if it stays up there. Also, If you can separate the washarm support off the pump, take it apart and see if there isn't something caught around the impeller. The impeller is plastic so you should not try to remove it. if something is in there, just clean it out. There are no more impellers available anywhere so you will be out of luck if you break it.

The leak on the drain valve stem may just seal itself eventually. I will have to check the old parts manuals for the valve as some had an o-ring on the shaft and others like yours at its age of manufacture may have had a packing gland.If it is only leaking a tablespoon per load, I would stick a small catch pan under it and let whatever drips out just evaporate between uses.

You are probably right about the pressure switch hose. It could be all gunked up as it did see water when the trap would be filled with water and over the years, all kinds of stuff could have accumulated in that hose. If you repace it, just make sure you use a hose of the same I.D. and length so it does not affect the point at which the switch will cut off the water.

 

[kenmore71]

Steve, all good suggestions. I know for sure that it's not the start relay. I checked that right away and it's working properly. I will take a look at the main pump impeller tomorrow.

After reading the KD12 and KD14 service manuals thoroughly, I think that the problem with the pressure switch MY stem from the drain valve not closing entirely which then causes water to leak into the sump which then activates the pressure switch. For now I think i will leave well enough alone. When it fills right now, it is about 1/4" below the overflow in the allotted 1-1/2 minute fill which is pretty much perfect. One thing at a time....LOL

 

[ovrphil]

Official looking handle

...what an interesting looking dishwasher..like the graphics and the blue rotating sprayer.

Speaking of old pupsters, and scuz the off-subject turn...I was looking at the old ads that Ultramatic has been diligently posting, and I saw a 1920's dishwasher. Now that's old - anyone have one of these?

If you can possibly avoid parting out - well, of course it's your call - I agree with trying to restore it...understand your time/priority thing..

$0.02 out the window,

Phil

 

[kenmore71]

Pulled the top off of the main pump and checked out the impeller. All seems to be clear there. Tried to pull the impeller with my hands and it was a no-go. I was able to manipulate things a bit when putting it back together and the "whine" seems to be gone. The impeller turns easily but not FREELY. Is this a sign of bad motor bearings? Load on the motor went down about 50 watts after taking it apart and putting it back together.

 

[kenmore71]

Also noticed that they KA recommends using "auto door hinge grease" on the wash arm where it meets the pump. May try that and see if I can get the wash arm speed up to the 100 RPMs that is specced. Right now I would say it is in the 30-40 RPM range.