Kenmore Series 90 Washing Machine, Direct Drive, Made By Whirlpool

[ratfink]

Hi Everyone,

I am totally stumped regarding my Kenmore Series 90 Washing Machine. This is same direct drive machines made by Whirlpool like forever...

Before I start to explain, let me preface that I can disassemble, reassemble, a Direct Drive in my sleep and down to Frame Base in 4mins 22secs, that's my best time so far, lol... I have repaired many of the Direct Drive Machines and in addition I'm a Fabricator and Restorer for a living. So this is not beyond my abilities.

Quick Summary:

---Got tired of going through brand new machines every three years and clothes never being clean.

---Purchased used Kenmore Series 90, it was EXTREMELY WELL USED... Even though it was completely worn out, Inner Basket rusted out, etc... IT STILL CLEANED CLOTHES WAY WAY BETTER THAN ANY NEW MACHINES.

Current Status/Actions:

--- Machine finally gave out, many issues, so I rebuilt entire machine. And I mean EVERYTHING was either replaced or rebuilt.

--- I have the Service Manual for the Kenmore Version of the Direct Drive Washer.

THE PROBLEM:

--- Washer is out of balance when empty during spin cycle testing, vibrates, moves on floor during spin cycle. I have done typical troubleshooting steps. Items replaced are as follows:

-Machine Base and Tub Support Pads.
-Balance Springs.
-Motor Balance Spring.
-Rebuilt/Replaced Tub Support Bearings. ( Using correct original Bearing Installation Tool, and for good measure lapped in Bearings to Tub Spin Shaft so there are no clearance, stiffness or alignment issues when installing Tub Spin Shaft... I have seen people struggles with Tub Support Shaft Bearing/Seal installation).
-New Inner Tub. This is Second New Tub, First was damaged in Shipping. But still has same balance issues and second new tub.
-New Tub Spin Shaft.
-New Clutch(s).
-New Inner Tub Balance Ring.
-New Inner Tub Shaft Block.

Troubleshooting, Theories:
My concerns are this problem is related to Engineering changes and obsoleted parts that I cant find the Documentation on. If anyone has these engineering change documents and could share them I would be grateful.

--- I had to replace the Electric Motor so my thoughts are to try the different springs that support the motor weight. Maybe my current NEW motor is not the same weight as the old one? I still have all the old parts so I can compare and weigh if necessary.

--- I have verified the NEW Inner Tub Dimensions to the Old Original Inner Tub and they are exactly the same.

--- They do not make any new Inner Tubs for these washers. I have ordered two from whats left of new old stock and my concern at this point is there is something wrong with these Tubs? Maybe center shaft is bent? Maybe these are rejects?

--- My only thoughts at this point is to clean/repair my old original Inner Tub up enough to the point where I can swap it in place and see if it does this same out of balance condition.

--- I have also verified the Tub Support Shaft and suspension Plates are correctly installed, haven't shifted, are aligned correct and freely move during machine use. I have setup machine to run without covers on it.

If anyone has any further thoughts, or maybe something I have overlooked or missed? Please let me know.

lastly, a recent discovery, When these direct drive machines are working correctly, there is a rare weird spin condition that can affect these Washers. While washer is empty, and watching inner tub spin, you will notice that tub will spin perfect then start shaking, then back to perfect, and will cycle back and forth... That problem is due to the Drive Block NOT BEING TIGHT enough. The block needs to grip the Tub Spin Shaft tightly. If it doesn't, it creates this out of balance shudder/vibration that is weird.... Hopefully this helps somebody.

Thank you all in advance.
Best Regards

 

[DADoES]

 
The model number should be cited when requesting service help.  Series 90 isn't a model number, it's a marketing label that references the feature level, the position of the machine within the line-up at the time it was produced.

Videos are always helpful when mysterious operational issues are involved.

Note that videos cannot be uploaded/attached to posts.  The usual method is place them on YouTube, although other sharing platforms can be used.  Paste links/URLs into a reply-post (don't start a new thread, keep all discussion of the problem in one thread).  The board software here automatically recognizes standard YouTube URLs (not Shorts) and embeds the videos into the post.

 

[combo52]

Direct drive washer, vibrating during spin

I have a couple of thoughts worth considering, how is it behaving with a load of clothing in it these machines often vibrate more with nothing in them.

Are the front feet turned in as far as possible, yet allowing machine to be reasonably level with the lock, nuts tightened against the base frame.

What kind of floor is under the machine?

We are still buying new wash baskets for these machines. There's a lifetime warranty on the whirlpool version of these. I have not had any problem with the several we've replaced within the last year.

If nothing else works, get another used direct drive that spins smoothly and transfer all your timer and controls to it.

John

 

[vegabass25]

Hey there.
A similar issue stumped me for months on a Estate DD machine I got for free years ago. I'm not a pro, But I have alot of experience with DD machines.

Turns out someone had sprayed grease on all the support pads and slides, allowing everything to move "too freely". The dampening action is very important, not just the movement. I had to replace the tub wear pads AND suspension pads, and clean all related mating surfaces with brake cleaner. Machine went from banging the inside of the cabinet regardless of contents- to daily use still to today. Could oil, grease or detergent residue have gotten on these parts?

Also, make certain the suspension plate is properly seated. It's easy for it to appear right when it isn't. As John mentioned- The machine being level is important. Those big rubber "appliance shock absorber" pads can cause issue as well.

I also find that some DD machines just don't like running empty. But it shouldn't be nearly as severe as you describe. Best of luck solving this issue
-Landon

 

[ratfink]

---Model# 11020902990.

---Machine was not spinning and vibrating moving around on the floor when I first got it.

---Machine is Laxer Level aligned.

---Machine Sits on a 6" inch thick concrete slab.

--- Machine has a new Transmission, Tub Spin Shaft, Clutch, Motor, Coupler, Springs, Pads(both plate and Base as stated above, Water Pump, ... had to replace Tub due to rust and water pump, then decided to get into entire machine.

---There is no grease, Oil, Water, on any part of the Plate or Tub Support, everything was cleaned with detergent, Dried, wiped down, then cleaned again with alcohol after assembly. The entire internals, base, frame and every part has been cleaned, replaced, or cleaned and painted.. its hospital clean, no grease, dirt anywhere inside or outside of machine.

---Leveling Feet are extended one inch and locked in place with jam nut.

---Please let me know who you are buying Inner Tubs from. Maybe Ill give another supplier a try.

There isnt much to these machines... Still, its got to be something I'm missing. Ill check the Plate again, along with my list as noted above.

Thanks

 

[DADoES]

 
As John stated above, variations in the spin basket can result in vibrations without clothes that are reduced or eliminated when a clothes load is present.

The front legs presumably need to be extended an inch for proper leveling?  Are the rubber pads present on them, and on the rear legs?

The balance ring hasn't lost its fluid charge?

If there's no objectionable/problematic vibration when clothes loads are spinning, then perhaps disregard that it occurs when spinning empty?  How often do you need to have it spin with no clothes?

 

[70series]

110.20902990

Wow, that's the exact model my parents bought in August of 1999. Best performing washer we had. I hope you can get it up and running.

Have a good one,
James

 

[ratfink]

---As stated, front legs are extended 1 inch and locked in place with jam nut. All ghe legs are in good shape. I have a new set if I need tbem.

---Im also going to check the self leveling mechanism again and verify spring is not broken or disconnected.

---I test with Tub empty, its out of balance empty, and much worse with clothes to the point of washer moving 12-18 on the floor.

---Question, what color spring should be on Clutch assy? From tech manual, there were two variations (sizes) of these machines. Smaller single speed with smaller Tubs and the larger sized 2 speeds with typical large sized Tubs... The smaller machines used the lighter clutch springs and everytbing else used the heavier clutch spring. Just want to verify this with all of you...

---I have seen the heavier clutch spring used on smaller machines, everything works fine, except when washer stops spinning it stops abruptly, to fast, which can cause the Suspension Plate to shift out of alignment and cause same issue with out of balance and needing to reset Plate.

---I have 3 new Balance Rings, 1 extra new Tub damaged in shipping, 2 rebuilt Transmissions, 3 new Spin Shafts, 2 New Timers with bad contacts on the Perm Press Function, 2 new Motors, 3 new agitator assys, agitator Dog Sets, pile of new Clutches, 2 rebuilt Tub Suspension Support Shafts, 3 rebuilt Temp Control Modules, Piles of Suspension Springs, Pads, etc....

---Im 99% its something Im missing or did. First thing Im going to check is the Plate and go from there. Ill update accordingly, thanks again for all the help.

 

[combo52]

How does the machine sound without the wash basket in place? Is there any vibration?

The clutch and door brake springs are not gonna affect the vibration

At this point, I would start with another machine if that doesn't work replace the house, lol

I have never seen a direct drive machine on a solid floor vibrate, excessively without something being obviously broken or missing, etc. can you post a video of its operation on YouTube?

John

 

[ratfink]

Hi John, Everyone,

I realize how this spin balance issue sounds. Impossible....

---I need to run spin empty to test if balance issues are fixed.... puting clothes in tub makes it worse and machine moves all over the floor... putting clothes in tub does not make it better. So please believe me when I make tbis statement.

---I agree with statement that if machine is off balance then its always something obvious, I have never seen a machine behave like this ever either... lol

---Machine is tore down again to frame... triple checking plate, tub support, bearings, springs, plate teflon pads, level, feet, etc....

--- The problem when spinning empty doesnt look that bad however the tub has a short shudder/shake during spin and its amplified when tub is loaded. I tested spin cycle without tub in place and was able to feel the shutter in the Tub Spin Shaft... it seems to be coming from the Gear Case....

I also tried same spin test with original old tub, still same issue...

So going to order another Gear Case, and couple rebuild kits to have on hand...

Ill update in a few days when I install another trans/gearbox.. Not giving up yet...

Best to all

 

[ratfink]

Kenmore Series 90 Spin, Balance, Shaking, Issues

UPDATE:

Finally, after many months of my Washing Machine shaking, dancing, across the floor... so bad it bent one of the rear adj feet Plates...

Actions:

I methodically rebuilt entire machine AGAIN one part at a time then assembled and checked machine each time.

---Replace Tub Support Bearings & Seals AGAIN! I found a scratch in upper bearing that I caused when replacing first time.

---Replaced Transmission, 3rd Time.

---Replaced Inner Tub Spin Shaft Assy, 4th Time

---Replaced Inner Tub (Whirlpool Ref Part) 3rd Time

---Tub Block, 4th time.

---Balance Ring, 4th time.

Each time I replaced a part I reassembled machine to check for success, failure, or change in spin balance issue.

Nothing changed until I rotated the Skate Plate. I noticed machine didnt shake put of balance as bad. It was still horrible but a noticible change.

I then installed the original suspension springs, the motor balance spring, and one of the suspension springs were broken, I managed to repair the end of motor spring, and use another oem suspension spring.... Ran Machine and Spin, Balance, issues were a bit better. Machine stop moving around floor.

As I ran additional loads machine spin balance issues progressively came back. Shaking dancing across the floor.

During rebuild I changed out all the Skid Plate and Tub Support Pads and Springs. However the parts I used were NOT OEM, but Amazon subsitutes.

I placed another order direct from Sears Parts using the original obsoleted part numbers for 3 sets of new suspension pads & Springs. And Ordered the original Kenmore oem part number for the inner tub not the whirlpool updated part number.

Turned out I found a supplier that had several Kenmore labeled inner tubs new old stock available.

SOLUTION:

---Replaced all Suspension Pads and Springs using Kenmore/Whirlpool OEM Parts listed on Sears Parts online.

---Replaced Inner Tub with new old stock ORIGINAL OEM Kenmore Inner Tub part number.

After changing out the suspension pads and springs and rotating the skate plate there was a huge noticible difference in spin, balance, shake issues.... After replacing Inner Tub AGAIN, with Kenmore oem part number version, I noticed porcelain coating was applied 3 times thicker than oem whirlpool inner tubs.

Finally, after these two changes the machine is perfect, no shaking, no moon-walking, no banging, no more angry wife!

SUMMARY/FINDINGS:

---DO NOT USE AMAZON NON OEM SUSPENSION SPRINGS OR PADS!!! This was a majority of the problem. Additionally, when ordering new oem replacement pads... GET 3 SETS AT THE VERY LEAST!!! Some pads in the oem package will have manufacturing mold defects, they will look melted and surface will look very very rough. So order extra!

--- BEWARE WHEN ORDERING NEW INNER OEM TUBS!!!! I now have 1 original rusted tub, 4 new oem whirlpool tubs, and 1 new oem kenmore tub. There are problems with these tubs that need to be checked prior to installing. The biggest issue is the center part of the tub... the inner tub shaft is not aligned with outer part of the tub which creates a wobble in the tub. Also, the center top part, the flanged over area where the block nut tightens and rest on are not centered. So when you tighten block nut it cants the entire tub to one side.

When replacing with new Tub, after installing check on spin cycle, while spinning look at the TOP ROW OF Tub Preforations, the little holes, if the Top Row of those little holes are spinning LEVEL and NOT Wobbling then its a good tub. 3 of the brand new oem Whirlpool Tubs I have are GROSSLY out of alignment and WOBBLE horribly, shake empty during spin cycle...

SO CHECK ALL NEW INNER TUBS FOR THESE PROBLEMS LISTED ABOVE.

Thanks to everyone for your help. This was insanely maddening especially since not much can cause this and fix is simple.

Im hopeful this will help others out dealing with this sneaky problem....

Best Regards

 

[DADoES]

 
All Kenmore washers of the Whirlpool direct-drive design were of course manufactured by Whirlpool, as were/are OEM replacement parts under "Kenmore" numbers.  Older numbers substitute to newer numbers in the parts lexicon history.  The reasonable difference is that an old-stock item labeled with an older number simply is an older-stock item produced when molds and dies and forms were newer and production-fit accordingly more accurate.